Outrigger set up for lures.

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    Posted: 29 Feb 2016 at 5:06pm
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Just got a set of outriggers this year and had two strikes at the weekend for no hookupsOuch
They are set up with roller troller releases that i am using rubber bands on(will be changing to dacron loops on mainline)first strike was a sloppy/lazy release pulled about 20m and dropped/spat lure,second strike good release pulled about 80m then spat/dropped.
Rods were set up just under strike drag and the only drop back is from rod tip to end of outrigger maybe 3.5m?
Anything im doing wrong or just bad luck? really want to get my first marlin.
What works for others, how much drop back? how much drag?
Thanks for any help.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2016 at 5:52pm
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Well your getting bites. That's a good result.
All sounds fine.
Fish don't always bite with the ferocity one wants.
It is the principle of your fishing.
Being in the right spot and getting the fish in your gear is the hardest.
Take heart, youre off to a good start.
Still cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2016 at 6:18pm
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We had 17 fish in the gear for 2 solid hookups last week using the same setups that would normally have given us 8 to 10 hookups in any other year. Fish were in a non aggressive bite and all we saw was bill wrap after bill wrap. Seen it before and will doubtless see it again. I wouldn't get worried about those 2 getting away just yet.
A quick tip is that if the fish powers off without jumping reasonably early it is often just bill wrapped. Check your leaders for bill rash and you might find the rash in front of the lure. You won't often hook those and they are just a fact of life.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote YeeHaa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 3:53pm
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lightgauge

WWW.YEEHAA.CO.NZ
(09)5705058
30 Jellicoe Road Panmure
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Peter Pakula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 5:22pm
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here's a few articles
http://www.pakula.com.au/index.php/2014-09-23-04-02-2/2014-09-23-04-02-4/outriggers

http://www.pakula.com.au/index.php/2014-09-23-04-02-2/2014-09-23-04-02-4/small-boat-outriggers

Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcJHeXhcuks

A few points:
if you are getting back scuffed leaders and no hook-up you have too much leader in the water - solution run lures closer or higher - don't use wind on leaders when trolling lures - use lighter lb leader

- light gauge hooks do not increase hook up rates on line classes above 15kg if you use strike drag of 1/3 line class. The rig makes a difference as does hook shape, not the gauge of the hook in line classes above 15kg. (25 years experience with light gauge hooks will show you this if you have that long to find out)

- Tag lines using rubber bands that break at around 1/3rd line class, increase your hook-up rate against all other outrigger set ups.

simple, what works - works for everyone :) go get 'em
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote robbosaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 6:01pm
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Hey Peter - I like the idea of tag lines but the main problem I've had is I guess trailer boat related.

Constantly adjusting speed in a trailer boat, uphill and down hill, with tide against tide etc .Im sure you know what I mean. This affects the way the lures run of course so very hard to allow the right length for placement. I've found that I have to run the lures further back on the fourth wake to allow for the variation in speed. Easier to adjust on a clip.
Because of this I'll generally run something pretty straight running - Ye olden Bp Zuker or similar on both riggers.

Is there a rule of thumb I could apply to allow me to shorten up on one side, coz I end up with two long corners, lol
fwiw I aim to tow 7.5 - 8.5 anywhere around there.
My tubs a 6.2 m Stabi if that helps at all.

I appreciate that every boats different etc - but any advice is welcome. cheers, r
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Peter Pakula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 6:13pm
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yep, you adjust your speed to get the lures working again, saves adjusting the lures. in a trailer boat range is 6.5 to 7.5 knots.

Don't run lures further back because of speed, adjust speed so you don't have to.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote robbosaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 6:19pm
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Thanks - yea I get that.
The thing is and why I troll a bit quicker is to reduce the shark factor. Slow down - get sharked, a knot quicker - don't get sharked.
hmmm - guess I'll just have to play around some more. cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Peter Pakula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 6:50pm
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I think you'll find that a knot or 5 makes no difference to things that can go a hell of a lot slower and faster.

Get your lures working and keep them working. The slower you can do that the more stable everything is including your hook rigs.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote robbosaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 7:18pm
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haha - yea that's true.

I have a bit of baggage I'm still carrying from comm days.lol
Have to lose that somehow.

I'm out there tomo 6.5 - 7.5 - yessir
Thanks Peter.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Wefaknis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 7:56pm
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awesome post this.... you wont get any better info..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MandM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 8:06pm
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Originally posted by YeeHaa YeeHaa wrote:

lightgauge

Second the light gauge. Changed my season and the way I fish this year. Using 3/4 kg drag , fight the fish on 6/7 kg. Haven't dropped a fish yet this season.
Last season I dropped 7.
Few of my mates converted too and have bagged 16 fish between us 3 guys in February alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote azaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 8:29pm
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Thanks for all the great feedback and advise, there are a few things there i will try on friday when i go out.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Peter Pakula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2016 at 8:40pm
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MandM, if you are using 4kg drag then yes you need light gauge hooks and you can use 8kg gear for that - perfect. If you're using double the gauge hook then double the drag. It's just straight out proportionate.
The light globe will eventually flicker and turn on.


For years many marlin guys have been trying to put normal gauge hooks into this



with as little pressure as possible, so instead of putting the drag up to 33% of line class and setting that hook you've decided that using 24 0r 37kg line to set a hook used for drag settings on 4 to 15kg is a better idea,

Really?

Yes setting a hook is a good idea! and yes hook shape and rig is important too!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rockstar from Mars Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2016 at 2:35pm
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Yes really Pete thats exactly what a lot of people here are doing and you know what its working extremely well. Infact hook up rates for most people using the Bonze light gauge hooks are off the charts.
We use the heavier lines for abrasion resistance only. Can you explain why you believe lighter gauge hooks are only for light line? And how using a heavier main line will affect lure action or hookup bearing in mind we are using a lighter 200lb trace with the light gauge hook...
Winning.....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Peter Pakula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2016 at 4:54pm
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Rockstar, I think you'll find if you search for I recommended 200lb leaders many years ago on this site.

It's Wind-on leaders and too much leader and speed that causes the marlin to eat the leader because of the bubble trail and vibration which is greatly increased by using leaders where the swivel hits the water. The thicker the leader the more it smokes and vibrates... soi leaders are proportionate to lures. You don't want the leader to be more attractive than the lure.

Video here of 50lb leader at 4 knots

leader trail trolling lure 7 knots


There is no abrasion if you set your drag at 1/3rd or over as the leader doesn't touch the fis

Blue on 37kg drag 13kg

 
Same Blue on 37kg with drag at 10kg



Because the drag isn't sufficient to pull the line straight the leader lies against the side of the fish which causes abrasion so by using less drag you need thicker leader which has more water drag so it lies against the fish more and gets more abraded.

Solution use 1/3rd drag and you can use thinner leaders which equals more successful bites. 200lb is fine on most 11 inch lures and above.

Don't get me wrong about light gauge hooks. You can put an awful lot of pressure on them if you are smooth and steady.

Pakula Dojo light gauge 35's

see next page
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rockstar from Mars Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2016 at 5:19pm
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Originally posted by Peter Pakula Peter Pakula wrote:

 

- light gauge hooks do not increase hook up rates on line classes above 15kg if you use strike drag of 1/3 line class. The rig makes a difference as does hook shape, not the gauge of the hook in line classes above 15kg. (25 years experience with light gauge hooks will show you this if you have that long to find out)


 

Peter after 25 years of research you are still wrong here so very very wrong. Light gauge hooks fished on 37kg definitely increase hook up rates compared to normal hooks. Well the Bonze light gauge ones do anyway. After years of having only about 20% of bites converted to hook ups this year my mates boat is 25-22-17 using Bonze light gauge. I recommend you order some and try for yourself your hook up rate can also improve just visit http://www.bonzelures.co.nz/   ... your welcome
Winning.....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Peter Pakula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2016 at 5:19pm
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page 2

Pakula Dojo Light size 35

 


But you do need to practice to be able to handle a rod and reel to do that.

Another factor is that game fishing reels designed for 24 and 37kg line just don't handle 5kg drag well. They aren't set up for it. Next time you're getting a reel spooled up you'll need to get the old line off. Put a Bouz drag checker on it and set your reel at 5kg and watch the needle on the scales. Then try some at 1/3rd line class and watch it again.

Lets look at it two ways,

If you want to use 5kg drag and light gauge hooks then use a line class where 5kg takes the stretch and the belly out of the line so you have direct contact with the fish and can dictate to it and fight times will be much shorter than if you use a heavier line class with lots of belly so that you have no angler control over the fish and need to drive after the fish chasing it all over the ocean which results in more accidents than anything else we do as gamefishermen because at no time have you got control of the fish.

2nd way. if you are using line classes over 15kg then use a drag setting that takes the stretch out of the line ie 1/3rd drag and use hooks that can take that drag ie normal gauge.

Use the same shaped hook which can be called the SL12, Pakula Katana or Bonze Platinum or Pakula Dojo hooks, all of which are the same shape.

Follow the rules of rigging those hooks which is the 560 degree rig which we invented more than 30 years ago.



The Rules are both hooks facing up (mainly because that's the most stable) but it also lessens the chances of one hook in one jaw and one in the other which will work the hooks against each other.

The hooks are set so that they form a vee for best results and the hooks should not be stiff rigged because if they are they are highly likely to bend or snap. Article here explains it. Ie where the wire joins the trailing hook should be left loose.

://www.pakula.com.au/index.php/2014-09-23-04-02-2/2014-09-23-04-02-3/break-point

Both systems light line, light drag, light gauge and heavy line, heavy drag, normal hooks have the same very high success rate and a whole lot more control, more fun and greater control of the fish!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote Ballsout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2016 at 7:40am
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rockstar you have been bonze brain washed, dont let really good marketing get in the way of good facts.
Who cares it just fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote dizzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2016 at 8:08am
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Interesting read. I'd like to see Pete Pakula and Bonze have a wee comp here in NZ and see who comes out on top. From what I've heard Bonze promotes having a belly in the line where as Pakula does not - correct me if I'm wrong. From what I've experienced with the Bonze light gauge hooks, the pressure is on the skipper not the angler, as the skipper is chasing the fish down the whole fight with the angler just winding in slack line and holding the odd run while the skipper gets the boat back into position. It's good fun but it can be dangerous when the fish comes to the boat very green. I guess it just comes down to how you want to fish at the end of the day; both styles work great. 
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