They are set up with roller troller releases that i am using rubber bands on(will be changing to dacron loops on mainline)first strike was a sloppy/lazy release pulled about 20m and dropped/spat lure,second strike good release pulled about 80m then spat/dropped.

Rods were set up just under strike drag and the only drop back is from rod tip to end of outrigger maybe 3.5m?

Anything im doing wrong or just bad luck? really want to get my first marlin.

What works for others, how much drop back? how much drag?

Thanks for any help.

A quick tip is that if the fish powers off without jumping reasonably early it is often just bill wrapped. Check your leaders for bill rash and you might find the rash in front of the lure. You won't often hook those and they are just a fact of life.

http://www.pakula.com.au/index.php/2014-09-23-04-02-2/2014-09-23-04-02-4/outriggers" rel="nofollow - http://www.pakula.com.au/index.php/2014-09-23-04-02-2/2014-09-23-04-02-4/outriggers

http://www.pakula.com.au/index.php/2014-09-23-04-02-2/2014-09-23-04-02-4/small-boat-outriggers" rel="nofollow - http://www.pakula.com.au/index.php/2014-09-23-04-02-2/2014-09-23-04-02-4/small-boat-outriggers

Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcJHeXhcuks" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcJHeXhcuks

A few points:
if you are getting back scuffed leaders and no hook-up you have too much leader in the water - solution run lures closer or higher - don't use wind on leaders when trolling lures - use lighter lb leader

- light gauge hooks do not increase hook up rates on line classes above 15kg if you use strike drag of 1/3 line class. The rig makes a difference as does hook shape, not the gauge of the hook in line classes above 15kg. (25 years experience with light gauge hooks will show you this if you have that long to find out)

- Tag lines using rubber bands that break at around 1/3rd line class, increase your hook-up rate against all other outrigger set ups.

simple, what works - works for everyone :) go get 'em

 

Don't run lures further back because of speed, adjust speed so you don't have to.

Get your lures working and keep them working. The slower you can do that the more stable everything is including your hook rigs.

 

For years many marlin guys have been trying to put normal gauge hooks into this



with as little pressure as possible, so instead of putting the drag up to 33% of line class and setting that hook you've decided that using 24 0r 37kg line to set a hook used for drag settings on 4 to 15kg is a better idea,

Really?

Yes setting a hook is a good idea! and yes hook shape and rig is important too!!

We use the heavier lines for abrasion resistance only. Can you explain why you believe lighter gauge hooks are only for light line? And how using a heavier main line will affect lure action or hookup bearing in mind we are using a lighter 200lb trace with the light gauge hook...

It's Wind-on leaders and too much leader and speed that causes the marlin to eat the leader because of the bubble trail and vibration which is greatly increased by using leaders where the swivel hits the water. The thicker the leader the more it smokes and vibrates... soi leaders are proportionate to lures. You don't want the leader to be more attractive than the lure.

Video here of 50lb leader at 4 knots

leader trail trolling lure 7 knots


There is no abrasion if you set your drag at 1/3rd or over as the leader doesn't touch the fis

Blue on 37kg drag 13kg

 

Same Blue on 37kg with drag at 10kg

Because the drag isn't sufficient to pull the line straight the leader lies against the side of the fish which causes abrasion so by using less drag you need thicker leader which has more water drag so it lies against the fish more and gets more abraded.

Solution use 1/3rd drag and you can use thinner leaders which equals more successful bites. 200lb is fine on most 11 inch lures and above.

Don't get me wrong about light gauge hooks. You can put an awful lot of pressure on them if you are smooth and steady.

Pakula Dojo light gauge 35's

see next page

Peter after 25 years of research you are still wrong here so very very wrong. Light gauge hooks fished on 37kg definitely increase hook up rates compared to normal hooks. Well the Bonze light gauge ones do anyway. After years of having only about 20% of bites converted to hook ups this year my mates boat is 25-22-17 using Bonze light gauge. I recommend you order some and try for yourself your hook up rate can also improve just visit  http://www.bonzelures.co.nz/" rel="nofollow - http://www.bonzelures.co.nz/    ... your welcome

Pakula Dojo Light size 35

 

But you do need to practice to be able to handle a rod and reel to do that.

Another factor is that game fishing reels designed for 24 and 37kg line just don't handle 5kg drag well. They aren't set up for it. Next time you're getting a reel spooled up you'll need to get the old line off. Put a Bouz drag checker on it and set your reel at 5kg and watch the needle on the scales. Then try some at 1/3rd line class and watch it again.

Lets look at it two ways,

If you want to use 5kg drag and light gauge hooks then use a line class where 5kg takes the stretch and the belly out of the line so you have direct contact with the fish and can dictate to it and fight times will be much shorter than if you use a heavier line class with lots of belly so that you have no angler control over the fish and need to drive after the fish chasing it all over the ocean which results in more accidents than anything else we do as gamefishermen because at no time have you got control of the fish.

2nd way. if you are using line classes over 15kg then use a drag setting that takes the stretch out of the line ie 1/3rd drag and use hooks that can take that drag ie normal gauge.

Use the same shaped hook which can be called the SL12, Pakula Katana or Bonze Platinum or Pakula Dojo hooks, all of which are the same shape.

Follow the rules of rigging those hooks which is the 560 degree rig which we invented more than 30 years ago.



The Rules are both hooks facing up (mainly because that's the most stable) but it also lessens the chances of one hook in one jaw and one in the other which will work the hooks against each other.

The hooks are set so that they form a vee for best results and the hooks should not be stiff rigged because if they are they are highly likely to bend or snap. Article here explains it. Ie where the wire joins the trailing hook should be left loose.

http://www.pakula.com.au/index.php/2014-09-23-04-02-2/2014-09-23-04-02-3/break-point" rel="nofollow - ://www.pakula.com.au/index.php/2014-09-23-04-02-2/2014-09-23-04-02-3/break-point

Both systems light line, light drag, light gauge and heavy line, heavy drag, normal hooks have the same very high success rate and a whole lot more control, more fun and greater control of the fish!

Good facts?? Did you miss this part "25-22-17"

 

Sorry mate looks like your thread has been hijacked YET AGAIN BY THE GREAT HOOK DEBATE WHICH IN MY OPINION IS STARTING TO GET REALLY OLD. LIGHT GUAGE HOOKS WORK AND SO DO HEAVY GUAGE EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OPINION ON HOOKS AND RIGGING.....NOTHING NEW HERE BOYS....... THEY ALL WORK. IF YOU GUYS WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT HOOKS AGAIN THEN START ANOTHER THREAD FFS

 

 

 

 

Amazan, it sounds like you are doing something right to have two marlin bites in a weekend! good on you! many troll around all season for zip... I would not be worrying about 2 dropped fish, be fussy about your rigging and sharpen your hooks, run light gauge if you want, personally from what ive seen (first hand) its a major benefit... but keep at it and put a picture up of your first one! cant beat that buzz!!!

 

 

zac 

I Like the lure!!!
 

You seem to have forgotten that after being out of the business since 1999 and getting it back in  2007 we launched our Dojo Peche range of skirted lures and hybrids, all pre rigged with Light Gauge Hooks. At that time I thought the game would have progressed to be the standard hook for striped marlin. So I'm very happy that you guys are using them now some 8 or 9 years later.

I'm only trying to get you to use the rest of the system for them. Most of you have only been using them for a year or two and don't have the 25 years or so of experience with them or been part of the development so it's understandable that you aren't up to speed with them yet. You think 50 to 70% success is fine. Try the real possible stats of 85 to 95% once you get the hang of them.

We've just had the Nationals in NZ where the biggest 3 Blues were caught on Pakula's, the largest 2 on the same boat Ocean Monarch, none of the three were on light gauge hooks. The simple fact is you don't need light gauge hooks on tackle over 24kg to get the 85 to 95% success rate. You do need the other factors, drag heavy enough to set them which isn't a set drag, it's based on line class which is the setting that gets rid of the stretch in mono line and that's a minimum of 33%, but the most successful guys are now using 40% drag to punch them through solid bone.

We've now introduced the next phase of this development because some guys are catching up...


These are for 40% drag, line classes 24kg and above, hook up rate same as light gauge at 5kg drag.

Hook it, you'll get it.



 

There is also the problem that guys don't understand that a system works as a whole, hooks, rigs, lure size, shape, leader type, length, thickness, drag setting, outrigger release system, release strength etc etc.

Leave any of those out and the system fails as it's only as good as it's weakest link.

I do try every system that comes along as my business is based on game fishermen's success. If the system is better we'll swap over to it in a flash.

At this time we have a bunch of the worlds top skippers using our systems, of which they helped develop.

These comments came this morning from Tim of Tradition Charters who is doing a stint in DR.

Also the direction of the point has changed. Traditionally the point was sharpened parallel to the shank or in the direction the point was pointing and pretty much cantered. This has changed to aiming the point at the direction of where the force is coming from which is generally the eye of the hook.

To get the hook to pivot or did into the jaw and not slice across the fish we no longer sharpen or even touch the underside (barb side) of the point.

Barbs are still reduced.

Have you got a photo of this set up please?  JJ

Fairly new to this but have recently fitted some stiff 12ft killwell riggers to side of hardtop on "White Knight"

The 3 position chatfeild killwell bases combined with hardtop that slopes inward slightly has resulted in less than ideal angle , the 45 degree (trolling ) position effectively about 50 to 55 degrees from water , high is good I understand that , but comes at cost of reduced spread . Anyway , right or wrong this has been sorted a bit by running poles in flat position with halyards wrapped around outer tubes of rocket launcher which is higher that mounts , this has flexed the poles up to a reasonable height at the ends with the added bonus of stiffening the rig , so from front on looks like a cowboy hat coming towards you

Well that's the set up for now , may have to wedge mounts about 5 to 10 degrees to fix properly but it seems to work . Have read a bit about the outrigger lures usually being more effective than off the transom on trailer boat due to the lures in the wash . So was thinking run a second set of halyards about half way up pole . Presently have roller troller release clips , for the second set up I already have aft goldfinger release clips as purchased a while ago, the type with swivel attachment at either end to suit this purpose. The aftco clip instructions say wrap line around 5 or 6 times with final loop to lock position I think. Or alternatively just run straight through clip which allows adjustment of lure which would suit me initially whilst I am experimenting with all my lure positions . Don't really want to run sliding dacron loop system just yet as my rod roller tips seem a bit small for this. Guess the main question is what do you think , any advise , I am a little concerned these clips are more suited to attaching with loops , might cause some chaffing of line with no roller?

Just been planning the next mission with a work colleague , only problem we stuck at sea for 3 weeks so will be early April. Going to keep it simple for now and just run 4 lures , 2 corners and 2 riggers. Sort of thinking of winter projects for next season. 

So will rely on fishing reports and adventures on here to avoid going cold turkey.

btw... you can bend the killwell bases prity easy

zac

Something i have been thinking about , seems a silly question as i feel i am probably missing something.

If we use rubber bands , why do you need clips ?? Why not just overhand knot a loop in the halyard and rubber band from there Use a different size rubber band to suit your release pressure required.

Ah just re read your post about bending bases , not poles as what i thought i read. Too easy , cheers mate. It will space the poles out from the hardtop for travelling position but can easily sort that , more important to get trolling position correct .