Knife sharpening

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hi guys, check out the edge pro knife sharpner, expensive but well worth it, just do a google search for edge pro knife sharpner.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Derek F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2011 at 4:57pm
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I have an Edge Pro amongst a range of sharpening gear. The Edge Pro is fine for knives that are already in good nick.  There are too many badly damaged or mis shaped knives that they can't handle on there own. 
I find that a slow speed, narrow belted linisher (preferably with angle guide) is really good. It is quite quick, can reshape, and doesn't overheat steel.  You can do a double bevel and de burr and finish to a polished level with felt and jewellers rouge if required.
Would not recommend  most grinders as they are too fast, hot and harsh on knives. Certainly would not put quality and expensive knives near them.
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ASL in Silverdale, do a damned good job, but still need a good steel at home to retain the edge.
Dont take life too seriously.....no one gets out alive any way.
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Ok Gurus what oil should I use on the stone??
Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2020 at 4:53pm
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Linseed oil rings a bell, but I could be wrong...Confused



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Honing oil, light sewing machine oil and parrafin oil aka kerosene.

Oil or Water?

Everyone knows you need to lubricate your sharpening stone with water or oil, right? So the question is which one is better. Neither. The purpose of a sharpening stone is to grind the edge and remove metal. Oil reduces friction and makes the process much slower.

Supposedly oil helps float away metal particles that would otherwise clog the pores of the stone. You can do the same thing by wiping the stone with a damp cloth when you’re done. Steve Bottorff reports that you can clean your Arkansas stones with paint thinner. Synthetic stones clean up with a scouring pad and abrasive cleanser.

According to Joe Talmadge, if you have already used oil on your Arkansas stone, you’ll probably need to keep using oil. But if you have a new Arkansas stone, a diamond stone or a synthetic stone, go ahead and use it without oil or water. It will work much better.

John Juranitch reports that in his company’s work with meat processing plants they discovered that the metal filings suspended in the oil on a stone actually chip and abrade the edge. Although these chips were only visible through a microscope, the meatpackers readily noticed the difference between the knives sharpened on a dry stone and those sharpened on oiled stones.

Waterstones are another matter entirely. Both Japanese and synthetic waterstones require water in order to cut effectively. Japanese waterstones can be damaged if used dry and must be soaked thoroughly before use. Waterstones wear very quickly, revealing new layers of cutting abrasive as the swarf builds up and is washed away. That’s why they are so effective. There is always a new layer of sharp abrasive cutting away at the metal of your edge. By the way, “swarf” is one of those cool terms you get to toss around when you discuss sharpening. Swarf is the slurry of metal filings and stone grit that builds up as you sharpen. Throw that into your next cocktail party conversation and just watch the expressions of awe appear as people realize that you are a sharpening God.


https://forums.egullet.org/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/


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Well just used 3 in 1 singer oil and knife seem ok and a rub on the steel.Thought water but its called a oil stone.
Should I know get thinners and wash oil off and use dry??

Seems no real answer
Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2020 at 7:45pm
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Catchelot. Ahhh I see it all. Probably the reason I never had much success with a stone. I generally just touch mine up on sharpener, but the result is not that good. I generally go out and buy a new knife in frustration and then have to make sure my wife doesn't add it to her collection of my knives. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishinmad1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2020 at 8:29pm
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I use my 100mm belt sander (with the bag of naturally, fire hazard) with a 120 grit belt, do all my knives, and chisels, followed by a hone with a white Norotake stone finished of with a strop on my old pinnie belt which is about 60 mm wide. Even my chisels can shave the hairs of my arms. The belt sander is the secret as the steel does not get to hot.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2020 at 9:29am
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I use my 100mm belt sander

 In effect you are sharpening with a convex edge...not flat angle Wink Its a quick way to change a edge form Flat (stone honed) to convex.
 You will find if use 800 or 1200 wet and dry on a bit of yoga pad sponge and strop (backwards like a cut throat on a leather strop)
alternative sides 10 times will give you a edge lasting 20 plus big snapper...or several weeks in the kitchen

The belt sander is the secret as the steel does not get to hot.
 
So critical.. once a edge is heated the ability to hold a edge has gone.. forever unless re annealed. Which is the biggest reason , even if get a good edge, it doesnt last long

According to Joe Talmadge, if you have already used oil on your Arkansas stone, you’ll probably need to keep using oil.
 Definitely..
 Water stones pedal powered wheels where generally use back in the day to keep the blade cool and keep the wheel clean.
 Metal build up in well used stones is a common.
 Also well used stones every so often where kept with flat surfaces....ground flat

 
you can do this with around 400 wet and dry..( using water or oil .. which ever the stones was initially broken in with) on a sheet of glass...
 It your stone has worn a curve you will not get a good lasting edge burr

Well just used 3 in 1 singer oil and knife seem ok and a rub on the steel.Thought water but its called a oil stone.

 3in 1 is a parrfin based oil Thumbs Up

Should I know get thinners and wash oil off and use dry??
 Try the re flatten the surface method above.. part of regular old school stone maintenance when barbers used to sharpen their own scissors, clipper blades and cut throat razors.


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Thanks "steps" I knew you would have the answerThumbs Up
3 in 1 it is,Oh its not filleting knives rather a knife number 2 is using for his modelling.
Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2020 at 10:10am
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What meduim he modeling?
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

What meduim he modeling?
wax for mould making for his jewelry  just a hobbie.
Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2020 at 7:09pm
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I used to use a shoe knife for stripping cable. It was a carbon steel blade, and I found a quick touch along the blade on a linisher with a fine belton it, gave me an edge that would shave..incredibly sharp, and lasted reasonably well. Lazy way of doing it I know. But agree with the above comments of never letting the blade get hot.
No longer have access to a linisher, so the slow way of a diamond steel is it these days.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2020 at 7:58am
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a quick touch along the blade on a linisher with a fine belton it

 Again that forms a convex edge...
A fine flat edge is around 22deg..put a bit of harder work on it , the burr bends over breaks off easy
A heavier edge for heavier work has around 33 degs...burr has a more solid 'bass'  and is shorter, lasts longer
Convex, at the edge can get to near 90 deg depending of the elliptical curve of the edge formed, burr is very fine to next to nil, solid bass...
Can be compared more to something like a bit of cut glass.


Lazy way of doing it I know.

Nope.. I wish I had a linisher to get the curve of the belt when 1st converting a new knife to convex.
 After that a pad is all thats needed
A quick touch .. cool...quick touch... cool
Hence why use the long method to form that curve stropping on a foam pad and wet and dry.
 It takes around 1500 strokes each side to form a good base curve on a quality victory or green river  high carbon stainless or carbon steel blade.
 In the end the effort is very worth it espec when have done all the kitchen knives , the high carbon cleavers and the fish knives.
One realises this every time you go to  cut a tomato with just the weight of the blade ... carve a roast or break down a carcass.

Its one of those small things you will wish you had done it yrs ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Derek F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2020 at 8:26am
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Pretty well all knives end up convex anyway because no one is perfect with a steel.
When I get them to sharpen I put back a double bevel.  About 18 degrees main bevel then tiny micro bevel at about 20 to 22.  This  gives a strong edge that has a small surface area so that people can touch up easily for quite a long time.  

Regarding stones I find most people who wish to use them start with too fine a stone and blunt knife. They fail or get frustrated and quit. I think people should start with a very course stone so they get somewhere fast and can see and feel the burr so they know they have got to the edge. That is a fine enough edge for many and they can strop the burr off on jute sacking, heavy cotton or whatever. It is easy to finish the edge from there with a finer stone if they wish.
And the trouble is, if you don't risk anything, you risk even more...Erica Jong
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Derek sharpened two or three of my knives & the results were superb
so reckon he knows what he is talking about therefore worth listening to.
Just a pity he does not live in Aucks as they are currently badly in need of expert sharpening.   
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Derek F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2020 at 9:10am
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Thanks Bazza.  I do occasionally have people freight a shoe box of knives to me with a return freight ticket.  At only $5 a knife it still works out cheap for them.  
And the trouble is, if you don't risk anything, you risk even more...Erica Jong
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Can I ask what grit you recommend starting on please?  For a stone.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2020 at 9:52am
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Originally posted by Derek F Derek F wrote:

Pretty well all knives end up convex anyway because no one is perfect with a steel.
When I get them to sharpen I put back a double bevel.  About 18 degrees main bevel then tiny micro bevel at about 20 to 22.  This  gives a strong edge that has a small surface area so that people can touch up easily for quite a long time.  

Regarding stones I find most people who wish to use them start with too fine a stone and blunt knife. They fail or get frustrated and quit. I think people should start with a very course stone so they get somewhere fast and can see and feel the burr so they know they have got to the edge. That is a fine enough edge for many and they can strop the burr off on jute sacking, heavy cotton or whatever. It is easy to finish the edge from there with a finer stone if they wish.


Pretty well all knives end up convex anyway because no one is perfect with a steel.

 A steel just straightens the remaining burr..once the burr has broken off you have a blunt knife that needs re stoning/ honing, regardless of method.
 A steel will not re sharpen a blunt knife..
Not having skills to maintain a consistent angle on the final edge on a stone is why a good burr cannot be formed... and get a sad mixture of a flat hones and convex edge which doesnt work..and causes frustration

I think people should start with a very course stone so they get somewhere fast and can see and feel the burr so they know they have got to the edge.

Yep .. most ppl leave a edge way too long then try a fine stone, inconsistent and end up as I just mentioned above.. Coarse stone less inconsistent

 AND form the burr one side BEFORE going the other.. swap sides before the burr formed causes inconsistencys of angle and a poorly formed burr that break away too easy with use.
Form the burr one side , then the other .. move to finer stone  form the burr one side then the other..
 no burr dont change sides.


That is the most basic 'trick' secret to a fine edge.


When I get them to sharpen I put back a double bevel.  About 18 degrees main bevel then tiny micro bevel at about 20 to 22.  This  gives a strong edge that has a small surface area so that people can touch up easily for quite a long time. 

Yep

Both methods work extremely well...
 difficult to do free hand unless yrs of experience/ practice without a jig.. a reliable very solid jig..
A convex edge is basically the same, far more forgiving, and far more for giving for the causal person to pick up.. and a large old mouse pad and couple sheets wet and dry.
And when the edge drops, 10 to 25 strokes each side, and its back again.. no set up.

Always remember , any old knife.. or bit of steel, can be made razor sharp..very easy...
it is the quality of the steel
if ever been heated
 how it is cleaned (not dishwasher)
how it is stored  (not in  draw)
and the skill of the person using the knife that maintains a good edge for a long time.
 And that is where ppl also have issues



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