The old fuel debate

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote wayno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2023 at 11:08pm
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Personally wouldn't worry about it ..
Have previously left a car with a tankful of 91 parked up in a garage for 3+ years while I was living overseas, started 1st try once battery charged and never missed a beat while the old petrol was used up
Same time had 15+ litres of 50:1 2stroke mix in a tote tank on the boat, same deal.
I usually stock up on 91 at discounted rates in 20l Jerry cans for my "new" self mixing 2-stroke on current boat, don't really take much notice of how long the cans have been sitting before using, likely some petrol has been in cans up to two years by now.
Maybe I'm pushing my luck, maybe there's nothing to the "old wives tales" about "old" fuel... Who knows?

To be old and wise you must first be young and stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mc Tool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2023 at 7:50am
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Hi Wayne , I think you have been a bit lucky  . If you have the time google about a bit for some info on stale fuel and how long it takes  and what it does .....worth a look Smile
I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote e.m.p! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2023 at 9:08am
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I'm using fuel stabiliser, the same stuff they use in the premix cans from the Stihl shop. Never had an issue and fired up without missing a beat after winter.
Can't beat a fresh tap though
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2023 at 11:31am
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Just dropped my boat off for its yearly service and they asked me how old the fuel in the tank was.  They consider anything over 3 months old to be "old fuel".  But I'm less bothered about this than I used to be, after a car I left stood in the shed for 18 months or so started first turn of the key on the fuel that I'd left in the tank.  I was out in the boat last Sunday and it was running fine, despite the fuel having been in the tank since the start of the year.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JustAnotherSpearo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 6:11am
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Update: chewed half the tank doing a loop around taupo with the partner. Had to do the brakes on the ute Saturday which killed my walking plans in the kawekas.

She run absolutely fine but boy driving a boat around pointlessly gets boring. Did majority of the run sitting at 5000rpm and then the last 45mins at full throttle.

Lovely day out


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mc Tool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 8:13am
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So , "The old fuel debate " where are we ?Smile
On one hand we are being told that using stale fuel  is unwise  but  then it seems that at what point should be considered stale is a pretty grey area. On one hand we are being told  (sort of ) 3 months is it , but its hard to dismiss all the above posters that have used year + old fuel with no ill effect. I think maybe  ,as mentioned above , that our outboards are relatively low stressed motors .  The fact that they can run high-ish compression ratios is  due to having efficient combustion chambers , spark plug placement , ignition control  .......all modern tech , and  I believe that manufacturers build in a bit of leeway coz they KNOW that most of us boaties  are not going to chuck out old fuel , and that if the engine did chunder  they would be 1st to get the blame ( Im thinkin USA hereTongue ).  And there are differing scenario's , like  for instance  , I dont go much more than 1/2 hour from the ramp  and probly not more than 1-2 km's  ( Pig Island for those who know Riverton ) , where as others go bloody miles offshore .
I guess  that if you use stale fuel  your stepping into the bullring  but that dont mean your going to get gored  ( but you'd keep one eye on the bull aye LOL)
The Jonnie 70 I mentioned above  came to me in bits ,the boat shop I found it at had rebuilt and sold the motor 3 or 4 times  as it kept melting pistons ( you should have heard some of the theories put forward ) any how I had to resleeve the block , but it chundered twice  and I didnt twig  untill I did a compression test on a fresh rebuild ( the 2nd one for me ) and it had 185psi ........90 to 100 psi would have been a pass. I pulled the head off and found that a previous owner had planed about 2mm off the head ( you could easily see it by eye when place next to an unmolested head ). So I made my own head gasket out of a bit of copper sheet . By them the Mrs had been stranded twice  and was "NOT getting back in that tub with that motor on it , and I would have to get a new one ".  Now who's going to argue that . I had to go out of town ( Nelson ) to trade that motor in as every boat shop , and the engine recon shop  all knew about it .
That 70hp johnson  would have run rings around the 90hp Yamaha I replaced it with 
 Love your bottom pic ( ooh that didnt look good as I was typing it out LOL) Justanotherspearo. There is something about lookin out the back of the boat at full noise , flat water  , just looking at  the wake lines, propwash  and the sound ( I used to take the cover off the motor so I could hear it better Ermm)

I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bertiesdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 10:18am
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I think there’s a lot of old wives going on about fuel. A lot of it will depend on type of motor, type of tank, octane etc etc. in two strokes I can see that premix oil could seperate over time, and in metal internal tanks that are half full there’s the risk of water from internal condensation- but personally I have left a boat half full in a shed for over two years due to work reasons and topped it up and ran it for a season without missing a beat. It has a newish yammy foutrstroke on it which has been totally bomb proof. Routine service done a month ago and no issues at all. There’s no way I would be pumping out fuel more than three months old- I be left boats standing for three months or more loads of times over past decade and never had a fuel issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mc Tool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 11:00am
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yeah  true but one thing we cant escape is that fuel does go off . Fuel is a mix of volatile substances  and as such these substances  do evaporate .... but at different rates   so this mix becomes unbalanced  and does not perform as designed .
Obviously this does not have a profound effect for some time  , depending on many variables  mentioned in previous posts. 
I guess  with the info available  we weigh things up and make our own choices as to whether we  go boating  or lawn mowingSmile
I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bertiesdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 12:26pm
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Agreed- I think with older boats- esp anything with iron/steel tank- or two strokes it probably pays to be more careful. One thing I would be wary of is running very high octane fuels that contain a significant amount ( ie above 5pc) of ethanol/ methanol. Most engine manufacturers clearly state the combustion tolerances of modern fourstrokes. Merc esp seem to havehad many a nightmare with bio heavy fuels- the US forums are full of tales- same goes for all manufacturers in their high output models. Those that are designated commercial models seem to have more tolerance as they are detuned a bit- or sold in markets where fuel purity can be an issue. Personally I stick to a 91 ( US 89 eqv more or less) which is what all the modern engines are designed for- though every third fill I do 95. Am willing to be corrected here but I think some of the cheaper fuel outlets use bio fuel mixed- and it’s hard to get clear data on how much. The big international cos do too but it seems easier to find out what has ethanol and at what pc.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 12:46pm
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The storage life of petrol is one year when stored under shelter in a sealed container. Once a seal is broken the fuel has a storage life of six months at 20°C or three months at 30°C. The storage life of petrol in equipment fuel tanks is one month.
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bertiesdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 5:35pm
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Done a bit of research on local fuels on the ethanol issue- it’s present in the local co’s 98 octanes and above in at least 10 pc of mix. This is the max pc for modern fourssttokes- older models may have problems with it. This (10pc) is really not great at all for two strokes. Ethanol pulls water from the atmosphere into the fuel mix and fuel like this left standing will not only cause ignition issues but can add to corrosion issues in the cylinder head. Lower octane fuels contain no ethanol in nz by and large- esp 91 but two stroke owners might want to check the specs at their local filling station.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 6:12pm
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Sometimes I’d be lucky to go fishing every 3 months so older fuel get used.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 6:17pm
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Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

Sometimes I’d be lucky to go fishing every 3 months so older fuel get used.
o/b runs on 95 car runs on 95 so no issue tipping boat fuel in to car,either way has to be brought.
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 7:23pm
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Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

Sometimes I’d be lucky to go fishing every 3 months so older fuel get used.
o/b runs on 95 car runs on 95 so no issue tipping boat fuel in to car,either way has to be brought.
Diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mc Tool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 7:54pm
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Im just waiting for NPD to get back to re alcohol in their 100+. I have found that Mobil and Gul high octane (98  and 100 oct contain alcohol)
And the NZ government  have set  alcohol content at 10% max 
I remember  ( that in itself is an achievement )  back in the good old days  ( probly why I cant remember much LOL ) that the cure  for water/condensation in the tank was to chuck a bottle of meths  in the tank. I guess that a bit of alcohol in the fuel might be a wee bonus  here , but , there has to be  a time limit  as  there must be a point where to much absorbed water becomes an issue  as bertiesdad  said.
Here's a thing , spent the arvo chainsawing  back a few shrubs that  have got away , one was in the power line Embarrassed. When I gets the fuel container  of 50:1  Penrite 2/  and 95  , has been sitting round for a year , the fuel was yellow  the oil was green  but the mix is now  a bloody awful brown  where it used to be pale green , looks like (MadagascanBig smile) marine varnish , so I biffed it ( tipped on the driveway weeds ) , only about a litre  so not to much of a wrench ( Scottish heritage) 
Hamish 
I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mc Tool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2023 at 12:45pm
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NPD  have emailed me  and say there is NO alcohol in their 100+ fuel
I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2023 at 3:55pm
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Originally posted by Mc Tool Mc Tool wrote:

NPD  have emailed me  and say there is NO alcohol in their 100+ fuel

why bother them with an email when they publish it for all to see on their website;

No disintegrations!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mc Tool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2023 at 4:20pm
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I wanted to discuss other stuff too Smile
I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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