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The old fuel debate

Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: General Forums
Forum Name: The Boat Shed
Forum Description: Discuss all things boating.
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=137914
Printed Date: 22 Apr 2024 at 8:30pm


Topic: The old fuel debate
Posted By: JustAnotherSpearo
Subject: The old fuel debate
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 12:21pm
Righto guys,
Now I know better but will explain the situation and then appreciate others feedback.

Cyclone Gabrielle did a wee bit of damage to my folks driveway and last month made the decision since insurance resolution / EQC is a good 18months away to attempt to get the boat down the drive.

Successfully managed to not write off my ute and no damage was sustained to the boat.

There's 100l of fuel which 70l was 100 octane from Nov last year from when I last used it, and then the old boy had topped up 30l after his last use with 95 octane fuel.

Ive tugged the boat from Whangarei back to Hamilton. Batteries have been on trickle charge.
I'm struggling to work out what to do with the fuel in the boat. I did start it the other night and let it run in the driveway for 30minutes. Seemed fine.
Seriously considering burning all 100l then servicing the outboard completely.

There is two sets of fuel filters and a water fuel separator before the mighty 100 horses take a guzzle.

What would you do? Have a lifetime supply of lawnmower fuel or just run it through?



Replies:
Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 2:34pm
2 or 4 stroke 
 NPD reckon the 100+ will last a year if stored in a sealed container  .... so not a boat tank with a vent BUT  they are probly arse covering a bit . Personally  I would be happy to stick it in the (older  low- compression )car  , a bit reluctant to put it in the  boat  mostly coz ya cant walk home if it takes a dump. I would NOT put it in a 2 stroke.....not even the chainsaw 


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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: JustAnotherSpearo
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 3:08pm
4 Stroke DF100B

Forgot to mention due for it's service on time (obviously) and in 3hrs use.



Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 3:34pm
What do you do to service a 2 stroke ?  change leg oil , bit of grease in the nipples , drain float bowls  and water filter , check the plugs , bit of CRC about the place  and make sure nothing is falling off .
 I only ever took a motor to the shop twice , 1st time it came back with a big sticking point a bit off straight ahead in the steering pivot ( apparently a bush just "fell" out of place ) 2nd time they cut the o ring on the oil filter housing  and it pissed oil out ..........now that was #*cking lucky coz I ran it on earmuffs before going out to sea  and saw the oil on the drive way . Now I measured the drip rate and did a bit of rifmatik  .......it would have taken 40 mins to empty the sump and in all probability I would not have noticed untill it chundered ( no low oil warning ).....so I fix my own stuff , Oh , and it came back without the seal on the motor cover ..... beats the poo logs outa me ... the cover was rattling loose so how they didnt notice it  themselves


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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 5:14pm
4 stroke ,100octane with a mix of 95? be tempted to use my self

100 oct from NPD? biofuel

Had it been 2 stroke,as you say lifetime of mower fuel.

What did Suzuki say? maybe a good starting place.

Why are using 100 oct as its a bio and most modern 4 s using 91 oct


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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: JustAnotherSpearo
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 6:07pm
I think from memory their 95 option didn't pump and their 100 octane was cheaper than others 95 and the Hamilton NPD is extremely boat friendly compared to the other options along te rapa.

Also just wanted to see if it made any difference which it did not.

Owners manual states 91 minimum I think


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by JustAnotherSpearo JustAnotherSpearo wrote:

I think from memory their 95 option didn't pump and their 100 octane was cheaper than others 95 and the Hamilton NPD is extremely boat friendly compared to the other options along te rapa.

Also just wanted to see if it made any difference which it did not.

Owners manual states 91 minimum I think
I know the Npd in Te rapa,handy. I use the one in Wiri Manukau for my 95 just around the crn from work  95 $2.93 my local Z $ 3.21

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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 7:28pm
Older petrol in a 4S shouldn’t be a big problem it will only be how much the octane has drifted and actually is now. But it started at 100 so should still be ok.

The problem with old petrol in 2S outbourds is not only to do with octane drift but also as petrol gets old it loses its ability to suspend the oil in the fuel and the oil will not lubricate the pistons properly and the motor can nip up.

I’ve pulled plenty of motors down that have had a little knock in them to find one of the pistons had nipped up with no lubrication.


Posted By: krow
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 7:54pm
I'd use it I've done worse. 
If you are worried about the octane use 1/2 and refill with 100 again. Caution though. Where did you buy the fuel? I believe the mix from Gull has methanol in it and that absorbs water over time. Also I've been told outboards don't like water suspended in the fuel. 


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 8:16pm
JAS, i haven't read though all the replies.  Two stroke engines aren't as fussy about octane ratings as 4 stroke engines.Four stroke engines have a higher compression ratio and need to rev higher than 2's to make the same horsepower.  Contrary to popular opinion that is a cast in stone fact.

Octane booster will help but one thing is for sure, if toy hear the engine 'pinging' that isn't a good thing. Turn around and head back.

My mate stored his boat at my place for three years, apart from using some epoxy to reattach the transducer that the sheep busted off it was all good to go. It was a Mariner 140 and had a full tank. We went waaaaay off the west coast on that boat with no problems.

Four strokes aren't as relaxed. Personally though I'd use an octane booster or syphon half the gas out and top up with 95. Outboard engines are in a pretty low state of tune compared to a car.

Any sign of misfiring or pinking then I'd head back in and change the lot


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: JustAnotherSpearo
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 8:52pm
Appreciate the replies. Think I'll just send and hope I don't require use of the cost guard membership.

Considering maybe taking the partner to Taupo for a weekend getaway with the boat in tow for something different. Will see, won't be this weekend. Kawekas are calling for a walk


Posted By: BotStomper
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2023 at 12:50pm
My only concern would be condensation in the tank. But you have a separator for that.

The 'zuks are tuned for 91 octane, you're throwing money away putting the better stuff in.


Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2023 at 3:01pm
The thing with the 100 plus stuff is that it keeps way better   so while it might cost more  your not faced with feeding it thru the mower . NPD 100 plus does not contain alcohol. 
It takes me 4 fishing  days out to burn 25l of fuel  and I got sick of tipping it in the car if it ( 91 ) had been sitting for a while  so for 30c more a litre I mostly get 100+.If you use enough to keep the fuel flowing , so to speak then 91 is the best value. I have had personal experience with running to lower octane in a 2 stroke outboard, melts pistons instantly .....didnt even get out of the hole  ( 70 hp johnnie,   bit of a storey if ya want it )
 Compression ratios in 2 strokes are a bit difficult   as while they may have a low static comp ratio  the effective ratio goes up a lot when at  peak torque   as with the 2/ the incoming charge is precompressed in the crankcase and is blown thru the transfer ports into the combustion chamber , where as the (na ) 4/ has to suck the incoming charge in.
2/ motors dont like low octane ....like stale fuel and will munch a piston pretty much instantly the load come on , usually melting the edge of the piston adjacent to the ex port  , sometimes just the top ring land  but I have seen rings totally unsupported  as the whole side of the piston has gone .
 Tongue Smudge , I can save you a post ..... the piston was still oily everywhere except where it had actually meltedSmile.
While most modern cars will take 91  my  Toyota recommends 95  and the difference in power is very noticeable if I use 91 . I think   the knock sensors cut in and dial back timing and fuelling more than the actual fuel makes the difference . I did try a tank of 100+ but the only difference  I could see was that it used more of it.
 I have a Capri ( 3.9 rover  efi ) which due to a miscalculation on my part when dialling in the comp ratio  clatters badly on 91  better on 96 but still had to take 4deg out of the timing and it only rattled when the boot was down . So av gas or racing fuel was the go  which was a pita coz you couldnt pump it straight into the car  , so when BP ultra 100 showed up at the Cromwell garage .....nirvana,Big smile  then 100+  got local . Whole different car . 


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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2023 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Mc Tool Mc Tool wrote:

The thing with the 100 plus stuff is that it keeps way better   so while it might cost more  your not faced with feeding it thru the mower . NPD 100 plus does not contain alcohol. 
It takes me 4 fishing  days out to burn 25l of fuel  and I got sick of tipping it in the car if it ( 91 ) had been sitting for a while  so for 30c more a litre I mostly get 100+.If you use enough to keep the fuel flowing , so to speak then 91 is the best value. I have had personal experience with running to lower octane in a 2 stroke outboard, melts pistons instantly .....didnt even get out of the hole  ( 70 hp johnnie,   bit of a storey if ya want it )
 Compression ratios in 2 strokes are a bit difficult   as while they may have a low static comp ratio  the effective ratio goes up a lot when at  peak torque   as with the 2/ the incoming charge is precompressed in the crankcase and is blown thru the transfer ports into the combustion chamber , where as the (na ) 4/ has to suck the incoming charge in.
2/ motors dont like low octane ....like stale fuel and will munch a piston pretty much instantly the load come on , usually melting the edge of the piston adjacent to the ex port  , sometimes just the top ring land  but I have seen rings totally unsupported  as the whole side of the piston has gone .
 Tongue Smudge , I can save you a post ..... the piston was still oily everywhere except where it had actually meltedSmile.
While most modern cars will take 91  my  Toyota recommends 95  and the difference in power is very noticeable if I use 91 . I think   the knock sensors cut in and dial back timing and fuelling more than the actual fuel makes the difference . I did try a tank of 100+ but the only difference  I could see was that it used more of it.
 I have a Capri ( 3.9 rover  efi ) which due to a miscalculation on my part when dialling in the comp ratio  clatters badly on 91  better on 96 but still had to take 4deg out of the timing and it only rattled when the boot was down . So av gas or racing fuel was the go  which was a pita coz you couldnt pump it straight into the car  , so when BP ultra 100 showed up at the Cromwell garage .....nirvana,Big smile  then 100+  got local . Whole different car . 

Makes sense Mac


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2023 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Originally posted by Mc Tool Mc Tool wrote:

The thing with the 100 plus stuff is that it keeps way better   so while it might cost more  your not faced with feeding it thru the mower . NPD 100 plus does not contain alcohol. 
It takes me 4 fishing  days out to burn 25l of fuel  and I got sick of tipping it in the car if it ( 91 ) had been sitting for a while  so for 30c more a litre I mostly get 100+.If you use enough to keep the fuel flowing , so to speak then 91 is the best value. I have had personal experience with running to lower octane in a 2 stroke outboard, melts pistons instantly .....didnt even get out of the hole  ( 70 hp johnnie,   bit of a storey if ya want it )
 Compression ratios in 2 strokes are a bit difficult   as while they may have a low static comp ratio  the effective ratio goes up a lot when at  peak torque   as with the 2/ the incoming charge is precompressed in the crankcase and is blown thru the transfer ports into the combustion chamber , where as the (na ) 4/ has to suck the incoming charge in.
2/ motors dont like low octane ....like stale fuel and will munch a piston pretty much instantly the load come on , usually melting the edge of the piston adjacent to the ex port  , sometimes just the top ring land  but I have seen rings totally unsupported  as the whole side of the piston has gone .
 Tongue Smudge , I can save you a post ..... the piston was still oily everywhere except where it had actually meltedSmile.
While most modern cars will take 91  my  Toyota recommends 95  and the difference in power is very noticeable if I use 91 . I think   the knock sensors cut in and dial back timing and fuelling more than the actual fuel makes the difference . I did try a tank of 100+ but the only difference  I could see was that it used more of it.
 I have a Capri ( 3.9 rover  efi ) which due to a miscalculation on my part when dialling in the comp ratio  clatters badly on 91  better on 96 but still had to take 4deg out of the timing and it only rattled when the boot was down . So av gas or racing fuel was the go  which was a pita coz you couldnt pump it straight into the car  , so when BP ultra 100 showed up at the Cromwell garage .....nirvana,Big smile  then 100+  got local . Whole different car . 

Makes sense Mac
Mctool would be good competition for "Steps" LOL

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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2023 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:


Mctool would be good competition for "Steps" LOL

what are you sayin  bro LOL that I blither to much or that  I made some sense LOL


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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2023 at 11:10am
Well with all the discussion I decided to tip the boat fuel into the car ( 3 months old 91 ) and I had an epiphany ( think that's what it's called ) ,dreading the prospect of standin on one leg trying to juggle the fuel container and funnel I thinks , after way to many years "mmmmm I wonder if the snorkel of my mower fuel container would fit the boat tank" thusly avoiding afore mentioned juggle .....and
it 🤬 did 🤯 😁

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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2023 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Mc Tool Mc Tool wrote:

Well with all the discussion I decided to tip the boat fuel into the car ( 3 months old 91 ) and I had an epiphany ( think that's what it's called ) ,dreading the prospect of standin on one leg trying to juggle the fuel container and funnel I thinks , after way to many years "mmmmm I wonder if the snorkel of my mower fuel container would fit the boat tank" thusly avoiding afore mentioned juggle .....and
it 🤬 did 🤯 😁
Yep that’s one thing I would like to find is a good siphon setup, I’ve made one up with a primer bulb that works ok but very slow because the hose is too small.

I’ve tried the jiggle ones but I find them a bit of a pain in the ass.


Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2023 at 5:24pm
I think one of those battery drill powered pumps would be the go .....40 bucks get you one that pumps petrol

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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2023 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by Mc Tool Mc Tool wrote:

I think one of those battery drill powered pumps would be the go .....40 bucks get you one that pumps petrol
I just need to go fishing more and use the petrol haha


Posted By: wayno
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2023 at 11:08pm
Personally wouldn't worry about it ..
Have previously left a car with a tankful of 91 parked up in a garage for 3+ years while I was living overseas, started 1st try once battery charged and never missed a beat while the old petrol was used up
Same time had 15+ litres of 50:1 2stroke mix in a tote tank on the boat, same deal.
I usually stock up on 91 at discounted rates in 20l Jerry cans for my "new" self mixing 2-stroke on current boat, don't really take much notice of how long the cans have been sitting before using, likely some petrol has been in cans up to two years by now.
Maybe I'm pushing my luck, maybe there's nothing to the "old wives tales" about "old" fuel... Who knows?

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http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
To be old and wise you must first be young and stupid.


Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2023 at 7:50am
Hi Wayne , I think you have been a bit lucky  . If you have the time google about a bit for some info on stale fuel and how long it takes  and what it does .....worth a look Smile

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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: e.m.p!
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2023 at 9:08am
I'm using fuel stabiliser, the same stuff they use in the premix cans from the Stihl shop. Never had an issue and fired up without missing a beat after winter.
Can't beat a fresh tap though


Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2023 at 11:31am
Just dropped my boat off for its yearly service and they asked me how old the fuel in the tank was.  They consider anything over 3 months old to be "old fuel".  But I'm less bothered about this than I used to be, after a car I left stood in the shed for 18 months or so started first turn of the key on the fuel that I'd left in the tank.  I was out in the boat last Sunday and it was running fine, despite the fuel having been in the tank since the start of the year.


Posted By: JustAnotherSpearo
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 6:11am
Update: chewed half the tank doing a loop around taupo with the partner. Had to do the brakes on the ute Saturday which killed my walking plans in the kawekas.

She run absolutely fine but boy driving a boat around pointlessly gets boring. Did majority of the run sitting at 5000rpm and then the last 45mins at full throttle.

Lovely day out




Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 8:13am
So , "The old fuel debate " where are we ?Smile
On one hand we are being told that using stale fuel  is unwise  but  then it seems that at what point should be considered stale is a pretty grey area. On one hand we are being told  (sort of ) 3 months is it , but its hard to dismiss all the above posters that have used year + old fuel with no ill effect. I think maybe  ,as mentioned above , that our outboards are relatively low stressed motors .  The fact that they can run high-ish compression ratios is  due to having efficient combustion chambers , spark plug placement , ignition control  .......all modern tech , and  I believe that manufacturers build in a bit of leeway coz they KNOW that most of us boaties  are not going to chuck out old fuel , and that if the engine did chunder  they would be 1st to get the blame ( Im thinkin USA hereTongue ).  And there are differing scenario's , like  for instance  , I dont go much more than 1/2 hour from the ramp  and probly not more than 1-2 km's  ( Pig Island for those who know Riverton ) , where as others go bloody miles offshore .
I guess  that if you use stale fuel  your stepping into the bullring  but that dont mean your going to get gored  ( but you'd keep one eye on the bull aye LOL)
The Jonnie 70 I mentioned above  came to me in bits ,the boat shop I found it at had rebuilt and sold the motor 3 or 4 times  as it kept melting pistons ( you should have heard some of the theories put forward ) any how I had to resleeve the block , but it chundered twice  and I didnt twig  untill I did a compression test on a fresh rebuild ( the 2nd one for me ) and it had 185psi ........90 to 100 psi would have been a pass. I pulled the head off and found that a previous owner had planed about 2mm off the head ( you could easily see it by eye when place next to an unmolested head ). So I made my own head gasket out of a bit of copper sheet . By them the Mrs had been stranded twice  and was "NOT getting back in that tub with that motor on it , and I would have to get a new one ".  Now who's going to argue that . I had to go out of town ( Nelson ) to trade that motor in as every boat shop , and the engine recon shop  all knew about it .
That 70hp johnson  would have run rings around the 90hp Yamaha I replaced it with 
 Love your bottom pic ( ooh that didnt look good as I was typing it out LOL) Justanotherspearo. There is something about lookin out the back of the boat at full noise , flat water  , just looking at  the wake lines, propwash  and the sound ( I used to take the cover off the motor so I could hear it better Ermm)



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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: Bertiesdad
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 10:18am
I think there’s a lot of old wives going on about fuel. A lot of it will depend on type of motor, type of tank, octane etc etc. in two strokes I can see that premix oil could seperate over time, and in metal internal tanks that are half full there’s the risk of water from internal condensation- but personally I have left a boat half full in a shed for over two years due to work reasons and topped it up and ran it for a season without missing a beat. It has a newish yammy foutrstroke on it which has been totally bomb proof. Routine service done a month ago and no issues at all. There’s no way I would be pumping out fuel more than three months old- I be left boats standing for three months or more loads of times over past decade and never had a fuel issue.


Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 11:00am
yeah  true but one thing we cant escape is that fuel does go off . Fuel is a mix of volatile substances  and as such these substances  do evaporate .... but at different rates   so this mix becomes unbalanced  and does not perform as designed .
Obviously this does not have a profound effect for some time  , depending on many variables  mentioned in previous posts. 
I guess  with the info available  we weigh things up and make our own choices as to whether we  go boating  or lawn mowingSmile


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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: Bertiesdad
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 12:26pm
Agreed- I think with older boats- esp anything with iron/steel tank- or two strokes it probably pays to be more careful. One thing I would be wary of is running very high octane fuels that contain a significant amount ( ie above 5pc) of ethanol/ methanol. Most engine manufacturers clearly state the combustion tolerances of modern fourstrokes. Merc esp seem to havehad many a nightmare with bio heavy fuels- the US forums are full of tales- same goes for all manufacturers in their high output models. Those that are designated commercial models seem to have more tolerance as they are detuned a bit- or sold in markets where fuel purity can be an issue. Personally I stick to a 91 ( US 89 eqv more or less) which is what all the modern engines are designed for- though every third fill I do 95. Am willing to be corrected here but I think some of the cheaper fuel outlets use bio fuel mixed- and it’s hard to get clear data on how much. The big international cos do too but it seems easier to find out what has ethanol and at what pc.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 12:46pm
The storage life of petrol is one year when stored under shelter in a sealed container. Once a seal is broken the fuel has a storage life of six months at 20°C or three months at 30°C. The storage life of petrol in equipment fuel tanks is one month.
https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/country-sites/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fuels/opal-factsheet-storagehandling.pdf" rel="nofollow -



Posted By: Bertiesdad
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 5:35pm
Done a bit of research on local fuels on the ethanol issue- it’s present in the local co’s 98 octanes and above in at least 10 pc of mix. This is the max pc for modern fourssttokes- older models may have problems with it. This (10pc) is really not great at all for two strokes. Ethanol pulls water from the atmosphere into the fuel mix and fuel like this left standing will not only cause ignition issues but can add to corrosion issues in the cylinder head. Lower octane fuels contain no ethanol in nz by and large- esp 91 but two stroke owners might want to check the specs at their local filling station.


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 6:12pm
Sometimes I’d be lucky to go fishing every 3 months so older fuel get used.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

Sometimes I’d be lucky to go fishing every 3 months so older fuel get used.
o/b runs on 95 car runs on 95 so no issue tipping boat fuel in to car,either way has to be brought.

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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

Sometimes I’d be lucky to go fishing every 3 months so older fuel get used.
o/b runs on 95 car runs on 95 so no issue tipping boat fuel in to car,either way has to be brought.
Diesel


Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2023 at 7:54pm
Im just waiting for NPD to get back to re alcohol in their 100+. I have found that Mobil and Gul high octane (98  and 100 oct contain alcohol)
And the NZ government  have set  alcohol content at 10% max 
I remember  ( that in itself is an achievement )  back in the good old days  ( probly why I cant remember much LOL ) that the cure  for water/condensation in the tank was to chuck a bottle of meths  in the tank. I guess that a bit of alcohol in the fuel might be a wee bonus  here , but , there has to be  a time limit  as  there must be a point where to much absorbed water becomes an issue  as bertiesdad  said.
Here's a thing , spent the arvo chainsawing  back a few shrubs that  have got away , one was in the power line Embarrassed. When I gets the fuel container  of 50:1  Penrite 2/  and 95  , has been sitting round for a year , the fuel was yellow  the oil was green  but the mix is now  a bloody awful brown  where it used to be pale green , looks like (MadagascanBig smile) marine varnish , so I biffed it ( tipped on the driveway weeds ) , only about a litre  so not to much of a wrench ( Scottish heritage) 
Hamish 


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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2023 at 12:45pm
NPD  have emailed me  and say there is NO alcohol in their 100+ fuel

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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time


Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2023 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Mc Tool Mc Tool wrote:

NPD  have emailed me  and say there is NO alcohol in their 100+ fuel

why bother them with an email when they publish it for all to see on their website;

http://www.npd.co.nz/100plus-high-octane-petrol/" rel="nofollow - http://www.npd.co.nz/100plus-high-octane-petrol/


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No disintegrations!


Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2023 at 4:20pm
I wanted to discuss other stuff too Smile

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I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time



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