Smoking - What am I doing wrong

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    Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 9:47pm
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I was given a new Snowbee smoker for Christmas. I have smoked fish before but it was a few years ago. I have recently been trying to smoke some Kahawai fillets and have had a terrible run with several batches ruined due to an extreme bitter taste in the fish. I'm using Manuka if that assists with solving the problem. Initially I thought I had just overlooked the fish, then I thought I burnt the wood chips, now I'm thinking I have two much heat as I have two burners in comparison to one like I had on the old unit (which I didn't seem to have any problems with). Any help would be appreciated as I have another batch of fillets in brine tonight which without assistance I will no doubt destroy tomorrow. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 9:55pm
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You are probably overcooking them and or have too much sawdust. The trays don't need much meths - try a 1/3 full - in them and you only want a light sprinkle of sawdust - it doesn't need to totally cover the floor of the smoker.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chip'n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 10:37pm
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If its a 2nd hand smoker, make sure the lid is not all blackened up with gunk otherwise it can drip on the fish, wash lid in a degreaser/detergent or waterblast it.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote tas-tackle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 11:20pm
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dont use the burners..  place the unit on top of the flame of a gas bbq..about 1/2
sprinkle enough sawdust to cover the bottom of the tray, a little shake to and fro to gently spread the sawdust.  Lay the fillets with skin still on and skin side down...
Next time just make a mix of non iodised salt and brown sugar  and wipe over the flesh of the fish..leave for an hour and once unit closed and set to go , place over the bbg gas flame..  about 15 or so mins depends on the thickness of fillets..  leave cover on and turn off gas flame..  leave for 5 mins..
overcooking is your enemy...  so take a note of fillet thickness and time taken to get your best results...  I have been known to chop up some dill or fennel fronds and place over the sawdust..
Adds a nice subtle flavour to the fish..

ps:   the bitterness may be coming from the iodised salt you are using

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote eynon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 11:38pm
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too much smoke? if i use too much fresh thyme in my wood smoker the fish has a more bitter taste
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SNOWKIWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 6:37am
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All of the above, plus check that your sawdust is indeed Manuka, unless you made it yourself, it could be some other wood!
It is to be observed that 'angling' is the name given to fishing, by people who can't fish.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 9:24am
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ruined due to an extreme bitter taste in the fish. I'm using Manuka if that assists with solving the problem.
I cold smoke... started with manukau and basic methods and refined over the last few yrs...
The biggest refinement was NEVER to use manuka again....it gives a harsh edge to the finished product.
The other thing that will do this is if the wood chips go from wood to charcoal then are allowed to turn to ash.....NEVER allow ash to form

I now use blends of apple, cherry, pohutukawa, a little hickory  .. the blend very much depends what is on the shelf and what is in the shop at the time.

Get the wood right, from there u can then experiment with amount of salt, type brown sugars, molassis, rum / brandy, pepper and chilly sauces (not for the heat but background chilly flavour) etc

The biggest way to 'improve' your 'product' is not to ask people if they like it... but ask them "what would make it better"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sid fishus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 2:58pm
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2nd,

too, much smoke too quickly. you are getting a layer of smoke oil without tasting the fish.
I always tell the truth about things that never happened
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 5:43pm
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As others have said: It's likely to be too much smoke, or iodised salt

I think manuka is a lovely wood to smoke with.

If you're still having issues after tomorrow's batch then do the next lot as simply as possible - i.e. no brine, just rub soft brown sugar and sea salt onto the dry fillets and then smoke them. That approach will eliminate anything you're putting on the fish and will help you focus on your smoking method
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 5:49pm
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when others have said non iodized salt,do you mean to use sea salt?been having same issues,cut back on sawdust and only 1/2 tray meths for heat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 5:55pm
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Yup. Use salt that hasn't had iodine added to it
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fissure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 7:21am
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could be the fish? or too much wood chips. just a light sprinkling needed. also, take the fish off when just done, even if meths still burning, (it probably will be) 10mins?. could be the brine?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 9:02am
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Personally , from personal experimentation and a good basis of chemistry, and the concentration (rather lack of concentration ) iodine makes no difference at all.
If it did then it would effect other 'cooking as well.
Also up to the 1980s it was impossible to buy salt without iodine....by law, and since this legistasion was changed NZ has gone from a near zero goutier issue to increased numbers.
I have also experimented with other salts such as the pink Himalayain

Early heavy smoke... Again a lot of experimentation, I have found that having an initial higher temp which results in  heavy smoke, as the fish goes in... drys and seals the surface  (like searing a leg of wild venison before roasting) holds the oils and moisture in and aids in better colour espec when using mild flavour woods such as cherry , apple, pear. As the fish goes in the temp is turned down , but the heavier smoke lasts far longer

Another 'mod' I have made is no longer rub salt in, but rather 'set' the meat using a brine soln....BEFORE the smoke... same principle as a ham or bacon is 'set' before smoking. At this point I also add flavours such as chilli, rum, Brandy, molasses.....The fish after a 2 hr soak, is removed , patted dry and as small as possible quantity of malt brown sugar rubbed evenly over the surface.
Cooking/ smoking/ preserving is all about chemistry...
The 3 critical things in the basic flavour are the wood type, the amount of salt and amount of sugar.
Ie how salty it is.. espec when later used in fish cakes and pie.
And how sweet... does the sugar add to the fish flavour.... or more like putting 10 teaspoons of sugar in a cup of coffee ...
Same goes for things like chilli... do u want it to taste like a chilli picked off the plant with a fish texture, or have the fish have the background taste of chilli without the heat and still taste like fish.
And when put in a pie do you want it to taste like a smoked FISH pie or no different than if use something like toffu, salt sugar flavour smoke it and put that in the pie and taste the same.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 1:19pm
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Have had that issue with a new hot smoker before. Had a real chemical bitter taste.
 
Having successfully used hot smokers for years I had no idea what the problem was. I ended problem shooting it down to one of two things. I was either getting a burnt meths taste or the metal was coated in chemicals from being built in China.
 
I went to putting it on the BBQ instead of using meths and secondly I put it in a BBQ full bore for a while to burn off any residual chemicals. Seemed to fix the problem.
 
Manuka may make it slightly bitter but not to the point of ruining the fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sappercatcha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 3:42pm
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you are probably using too much dust half a handful is all you need in those stainless meth's smokers do not be tempted to cover the hole try with dust it will only make the fish bitter
I run my smoker at about 70c I can just touch the racks with out getting burned takes anywhere from 1 -6 hours depending on the thickness of fish I use a mix of 3 parts sugar and one part salt then rinse and dry as per this vid

i use this exact method

another good trick with the meth's smokers is take the plates off your bbq and sit the smoker in the burners instead of using meth's it gives you much more control of tep

in-fact I am in the middle of smoking some snapper now I gut the snapper then take a fillet off one side which leaves you with a fame with a side still attached which is what I smoke the fillets I take off are skinned and boned and eaten normally gives you smoked fish and dinner off the same fish with no waste
keep up the good work boys
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hemp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 7:46pm
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OK guys time for some feedback.

Firstly - thanks for all the responses. It was great to get all those tips. What I took from the responses (and based on what I had done previously) I think I had too much heat and too much smoke (at least these issues were the big ticket problems).

For the fillets I did this evening (which had been soaked in brine for 24 hours) I only used about 1/3 metho, reduced the amount of wood chips, and watched it closely to see that the flame did not grow too much.

The result was a huge improvement. The first load came out nicely cooked but way too salty. On the second batch I washed the fillets under water for longer and then gave the fillets a coat of brown sugar before smoking again under low heat. The result was the best by far. The biggest improvement from both batches today was the lack of the acidic flavour that I had previously. Wow what a change........

Moving forward I will work on a BBQ solution as I think the metho burners are very hard to control. Once again thanks for all the help.

Hemp

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sappercatcha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 8:37pm
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how about this
cut a slot in the smoker were I put the black mark.....


and buy one of these


they are cheep as chips then simply put the smoker on top with the control knobs coming out trough the slot this will give you 100% full control of the heat
keep up the good work boys
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big Manly Yaka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2015 at 12:11pm
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I've put one those double rings in my (wooden box) smoker, and its works well enough for me but there is not quite control of the flame as you might think. Just the small centre ring on full gives me around 80-90degrees and just the larger ring gives me around 110-120 degrees, varying the adjustments doesn't do much other than cause the flame to go out every now and then, might be different in the example above but in my experience if you turn the flame too low any little breeze will blow it out. 
With those metal box smokers the BBQ works well enough if you don't want to buy one of those rings. Take the grill/plate out to get closer for hotter shorter cook, or leave the grill on to sit it higher for a longer cooler smoke, all you're really doing with these smokers is just cooking the fish with a smoky flavour.  
Sometimes the juices dripping down onto the metal bottom can burn and maybe add a slightly bitter taste, I used to put a good layer of chips down to soak it up a bit which seemed to help.
I love doing KY fillets in the metal box and scoffing them straight from the smoker, all done in about 25minutes. Anything bigger goes in the wooden box for 5-6hours cold, then hot for the last hour. Man this is making me hungry!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2015 at 2:49pm
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Similar to the above.. even the big ring requires far too much LPG to keep lit.. and evwen then with a modified regular.. slightest puff wind goes out.
I now have a 60mm diam hob burner that can cold smoke reliably down to 46/48 Deg

Several issues determine temps
1/ the exit vent, bigger the vent the lower the temp u can get...down side too big and most the smoke rises too fast, doesnt 'hang' and stuff doesnt get good even smoke contact thru out the whole smoker
2/ The flame size
3/ The water tray.. a MUST...the extra moisture this provides over and above that produced by burning meths or lpg acts like a buffer giving stable temps... even well over 120 deg C.
Also it an effective safety measure, the fats drop into the water tray rather than on the bottom... fat dropping on the bottom can ignite, burn....

Even with my cabinet smoker and the little 60cm burner I have stable temps from just below 50 degs right upto temps to cook a roast lamb as a oven....it is also ideal for keeping trays food hot when we have events here.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big Manly Yaka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 10:14am
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Steps does it matter where you put the water tray in the smoker to help with the moisture and temp? I would need to put another shelf in my smoker to position the water pan under the racks I currently have, and my fear is it will be too close to the gas hob, causing it to simmer or boil and release too much moisture? could I have the water tray to one side, not directly above the fame or under the racks, and still get the benefit?
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