Smoking - What am I doing wrong
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Kitchen - Seafood Recipes
Forum Description: Share your favourite seafood recipes here
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=107662
Printed Date: 16 Jun 2026 at 4:58am
Topic: Smoking - What am I doing wrong
Posted By: Hemp
Subject: Smoking - What am I doing wrong
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 9:47pm
| I was given a new Snowbee smoker for Christmas. I have smoked fish before but it was a few years ago. I have recently been trying to smoke some Kahawai fillets and have had a terrible run with several batches ruined due to an extreme bitter taste in the fish. I'm using Manuka if that assists with solving the problem. Initially I thought I had just overlooked the fish, then I thought I burnt the wood chips, now I'm thinking I have two much heat as I have two burners in comparison to one like I had on the old unit (which I didn't seem to have any problems with). Any help would be appreciated as I have another batch of fillets in brine tonight which without assistance I will no doubt destroy tomorrow. Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 9:55pm
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You are probably overcooking them and or have too much sawdust. The trays don't need much meths - try a 1/3 full - in them and you only want a light sprinkle of sawdust - it doesn't need to totally cover the floor of the smoker. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Chip'n
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 10:37pm
| If its a 2nd hand smoker, make sure the lid is not all blackened up with gunk otherwise it can drip on the fish, wash lid in a degreaser/detergent or waterblast it. |
Posted By: tas-tackle
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 11:20pm
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dont use the burners.. place the unit on top of the flame of a gas bbq..about 1/2 sprinkle enough sawdust to cover the bottom of the tray, a little shake to and fro to gently spread the sawdust. Lay the fillets with skin still on and skin side down... Next time just make a mix of non iodised salt and brown sugar and wipe over the flesh of the fish..leave for an hour and once unit closed and set to go , place over the bbg gas flame.. about 15 or so mins depends on the thickness of fillets.. leave cover on and turn off gas flame.. leave for 5 mins.. overcooking is your enemy... so take a note of fillet thickness and time taken to get your best results... I have been known to chop up some dill or fennel fronds and place over the sawdust.. Adds a nice subtle flavour to the fish.. ps: the bitterness may be coming from the iodised salt you are using ------------- http://postimage.org/" rel="nofollow">  http://www.tas-tackle.co.nz |
Posted By: eynon
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2015 at 11:38pm
| too much smoke? if i use too much fresh thyme in my wood smoker the fish has a more bitter taste |
Posted By: SNOWKIWI
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 6:37am
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All of the above, plus check that your sawdust is indeed Manuka, unless you made it yourself, it could be some other wood! ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">  It is to be observed that 'angling' is the name given to fishing, by people who can't fish. |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 9:24am
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ruined due to an extreme bitter taste in the fish. I'm using Manuka if that assists with solving the problem. I cold smoke... started with manukau and basic methods and refined over the last few yrs... The biggest refinement was NEVER to use manuka again....it gives a harsh edge to the finished product. The other thing that will do this is if the wood chips go from wood to charcoal then are allowed to turn to ash.....NEVER allow ash to form I now use blends of apple, cherry, pohutukawa, a little hickory .. the blend very much depends what is on the shelf and what is in the shop at the time. Get the wood right, from there u can then experiment with amount of salt, type brown sugars, molassis, rum / brandy, pepper and chilly sauces (not for the heat but background chilly flavour) etc The biggest way to 'improve' your 'product' is not to ask people if they like it... but ask them "what would make it better" |
Posted By: sid fishus
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 2:58pm
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2nd, too, much smoke too quickly. you are getting a layer of smoke oil without tasting the fish. ------------- I always tell the truth about things that never happened |
Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 5:43pm
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As others have said: It's likely to be too much smoke, or iodised salt I think manuka is a lovely wood to smoke with. If you're still having issues after tomorrow's batch then do the next lot as simply as possible - i.e. no brine, just rub soft brown sugar and sea salt onto the dry fillets and then smoke them. That approach will eliminate anything you're putting on the fish and will help you focus on your smoking method |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 5:49pm
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when others have said non iodized salt,do you mean to use sea salt?been having same issues,cut back on sawdust and only 1/2 tray meths for heat. ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2015 at 5:55pm
| Yup. Use salt that hasn't had iodine added to it |
Posted By: Fissure
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 7:21am
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could be the fish? or too much wood chips. just a light sprinkling needed. also, take the fish off when just done, even if meths still burning, (it probably will be) 10mins?. could be the brine? |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 9:02am
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Personally , from personal experimentation and a good basis of chemistry, and the concentration (rather lack of concentration ) iodine makes no difference at all. If it did then it would effect other 'cooking as well. Also up to the 1980s it was impossible to buy salt without iodine....by law, and since this legistasion was changed NZ has gone from a near zero goutier issue to increased numbers. I have also experimented with other salts such as the pink Himalayain Early heavy smoke... Again a lot of experimentation, I have found that having an initial higher temp which results in heavy smoke, as the fish goes in... drys and seals the surface (like searing a leg of wild venison before roasting) holds the oils and moisture in and aids in better colour espec when using mild flavour woods such as cherry , apple, pear. As the fish goes in the temp is turned down , but the heavier smoke lasts far longer Another 'mod' I have made is no longer rub salt in, but rather 'set' the meat using a brine soln....BEFORE the smoke... same principle as a ham or bacon is 'set' before smoking. At this point I also add flavours such as chilli, rum, Brandy, molasses.....The fish after a 2 hr soak, is removed , patted dry and as small as possible quantity of malt brown sugar rubbed evenly over the surface. Cooking/ smoking/ preserving is all about chemistry... The 3 critical things in the basic flavour are the wood type, the amount of salt and amount of sugar. Ie how salty it is.. espec when later used in fish cakes and pie. And how sweet... does the sugar add to the fish flavour.... or more like putting 10 teaspoons of sugar in a cup of coffee ... Same goes for things like chilli... do u want it to taste like a chilli picked off the plant with a fish texture, or have the fish have the background taste of chilli without the heat and still taste like fish. And when put in a pie do you want it to taste like a smoked FISH pie or no different than if use something like toffu, salt sugar flavour smoke it and put that in the pie and taste the same. |
Posted By: Bull
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 1:19pm
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Have had that issue with a new hot smoker before. Had a real chemical bitter taste. Having successfully used hot smokers for years I had no idea what the problem was. I ended problem shooting it down to one of two things. I was either getting a burnt meths taste or the metal was coated in chemicals from being built in China. I went to putting it on the BBQ instead of using meths and secondly I put it in a BBQ full bore for a while to burn off any residual chemicals. Seemed to fix the problem. Manuka may make it slightly bitter but not to the point of ruining the fish. ------------- http://www.squidfish.net/ �.��.���'�.�����'�.��.���'�.� ><((((�> |
Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 3:42pm
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you are probably using too much dust half a handful is all you need in those stainless meth's smokers do not be tempted to cover the hole try with dust it will only make the fish bitter I run my smoker at about 70c I can just touch the racks with out getting burned takes anywhere from 1 -6 hours depending on the thickness of fish I use a mix of 3 parts sugar and one part salt then rinse and dry as per this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZIpfpJnj78" rel="nofollow - i use this exact method another good trick with the meth's smokers is take the plates off your bbq and sit the smoker in the burners instead of using meth's it gives you much more control of tep in-fact I am in the middle of smoking some snapper now I gut the snapper then take a fillet off one side which leaves you with a fame with a side still attached which is what I smoke the fillets I take off are skinned and boned and eaten normally gives you smoked fish and dinner off the same fish with no waste ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> keep up the good work boys
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Posted By: Hemp
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 7:46pm
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OK guys time for some feedback. Firstly - thanks for all the responses. It was great to get all those tips. What I took from the responses (and based on what I had done previously) I think I had too much heat and too much smoke (at least these issues were the big ticket problems). For the fillets I did this evening (which had been soaked in brine for 24 hours) I only used about 1/3 metho, reduced the amount of wood chips, and watched it closely to see that the flame did not grow too much. The result was a huge improvement. The first load came out nicely cooked but way too salty. On the second batch I washed the fillets under water for longer and then gave the fillets a coat of brown sugar before smoking again under low heat. The result was the best by far. The biggest improvement from both batches today was the lack of the acidic flavour that I had previously. Wow what a change........ Moving forward I will work on a BBQ solution as I think the metho burners are very hard to control. Once again thanks for all the help. Hemp |
Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 8:37pm
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how about this cut a slot in the smoker were I put the black mark.....  and buy one of these  they are cheep as chips then simply put the smoker on top with the control knobs coming out trough the slot this will give you 100% full control of the heat ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> keep up the good work boys
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Posted By: Big Manly Yaka
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2015 at 12:11pm
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I've put one those double rings in my (wooden box) smoker, and its works well enough for me but there is not quite control of the flame as you might think. Just the small centre ring on full gives me around 80-90degrees and just the larger ring gives me around 110-120 degrees, varying the adjustments doesn't do much other than cause the flame to go out every now and then, might be different in the example above but in my experience if you turn the flame too low any little breeze will blow it out. With those metal box smokers the BBQ works well enough if you don't want to buy one of those rings. Take the grill/plate out to get closer for hotter shorter cook, or leave the grill on to sit it higher for a longer cooler smoke, all you're really doing with these smokers is just cooking the fish with a smoky flavour. Sometimes the juices dripping down onto the metal bottom can burn and maybe add a slightly bitter taste, I used to put a good layer of chips down to soak it up a bit which seemed to help. I love doing KY fillets in the metal box and scoffing them straight from the smoker, all done in about 25minutes. Anything bigger goes in the wooden box for 5-6hours cold, then hot for the last hour. Man this is making me hungry! |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2015 at 2:49pm
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Similar to the above.. even the big ring requires far too much LPG to keep lit.. and evwen then with a modified regular.. slightest puff wind goes out. I now have a 60mm diam hob burner that can cold smoke reliably down to 46/48 Deg Several issues determine temps 1/ the exit vent, bigger the vent the lower the temp u can get...down side too big and most the smoke rises too fast, doesnt 'hang' and stuff doesnt get good even smoke contact thru out the whole smoker 2/ The flame size 3/ The water tray.. a MUST...the extra moisture this provides over and above that produced by burning meths or lpg acts like a buffer giving stable temps... even well over 120 deg C. Also it an effective safety measure, the fats drop into the water tray rather than on the bottom... fat dropping on the bottom can ignite, burn.... Even with my cabinet smoker and the little 60cm burner I have stable temps from just below 50 degs right upto temps to cook a roast lamb as a oven....it is also ideal for keeping trays food hot when we have events here. |
Posted By: Big Manly Yaka
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 10:14am
| Steps does it matter where you put the water tray in the smoker to help with the moisture and temp? I would need to put another shelf in my smoker to position the water pan under the racks I currently have, and my fear is it will be too close to the gas hob, causing it to simmer or boil and release too much moisture? could I have the water tray to one side, not directly above the fame or under the racks, and still get the benefit? |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 12:08pm
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Steps does it matter where you put the water tray in the smoker I dont know, have not experimented with location, just if have it in or not. Not having it in there is no way to get lower temps for colder smoking Mine is a couple cm.. above the cake tin U use for the smoking chips, and just under the racks. I estimate approx 2 to 3 cups of water lasts about 5 to 7 hrs |
Posted By: Big Manly Yaka
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 1:37pm
| Cheers, hopefully I get something this weekend to experiment with. My cold smoking I don't usually have any heat at all, just smoke for 5-6 hours then turn the heat on (80-90degs) for another hour. My smoke comes from one of those UFO smoke generators attached to the side of the box, it blows pretty much cold smoke. |
Posted By: tas-tackle
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 3:41pm
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I use a large bowl enamel above the burner box in my Kiwi Smoker.. line with tin foil , it is then easier to clean as fish fat drops to the bottom from the racks above and into the bowl. ..Yes the water does get quite hot but i believe using a water tray helps keep the fish moist.. Even tho im using the hot box in the unit.. I have a smoke cannon i use for the first and last hour of a 4 hour session.. ------------- http://postimage.org/" rel="nofollow"> http://www.tas-tackle.co.nz |
Posted By: lingee
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2015 at 4:46pm
| Hi there if you donot salt the fish it will keep a lot more moist. flavour if u like. pepper and lemon mix nice or add your own mix . i donot salt fish first. it dries the meat out with hot smoke.moist is best, and it lasts well. |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 10:02am
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i do not salt fish first. it dries the meat out with hot smoke.moist is best, and it lasts well. My son hot smokes, was asking him about what he does and he made that sort comment also.. as to lasting, he recons treat hot smoking like ordinary cooked food.. chicken..... Where as cold smoking as we do lasts in the fridge for at least near on 2 weeks He hot smokes fillets with skin on, other wise drys a little to much. We cold smoke skinned, the thinner fillets pulled early, and still moist... I hate 'jerkied' fish....beef / chicken etc thats good . Have tried cold smoke not salting.. no significance difference in moisture but the end result looses texture and flavour a bit bland. The amount of salting, and sugar, experiment with...same with things like chilli , rum, molasses.... make small changes and end u with a very nice product that suits yourselves. We started with manuka, 1/2 tea cup salt, 1/2 cup brown sugar, marinate fillets in the fridge for 2 hrs....tried rubbing in over night methods... even white sugar lol... And as to rubbing salt in or marinate for a few hrs.....We prefer the marinate method .. its quicker easier and more versatile with more control over the salt taste in particular.... At the end of the day there is no 'right' receipy/ method other than the basics of salting and sugar. In saying that have tried some 'proud' home smokes, including some of our experiments..and they vary from a polite ...'yes ok' to spit it out... Which is why if u want comments ask "what do u think would improve it" NOT "do u like it" Every question has 2 answers...and far too many ppl ask a question and u know damn well they cant accept one of the answers...so why the hell do they ask the question in the 1st bloody place? |
Posted By: Gavoon
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2015 at 9:45am
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Hey Hemp I have had the same issue as you. I have been hot smoking trout for years and never had a problem until recently the smoked fish was ruined buy an acrid taste on the surface of the fish. I did find some holes in the base of my old smoker and as it was on it's last legs I bifft it out and god a new one. I cleaned the new one, gave it a good burn before using it, smoked some trout and guess what....no bloody good, same result. I have put it down to the sawdust I used, got it from the Wharehouse. Next step is to clean the smoker, get some different sawdust, catch a trout and try it again.
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Posted By: Godders
Date Posted: 13 May 2015 at 4:39pm
The bbq method works great.alsomainading in teriyaki sauce from kokkoman for a few hours is very nice.Teriyaki is soy sauce with brown sugar and ginger and wine.and maybe dont spread the chips evenly but have a mound in the middle. |
Bull wrote:Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 13 May 2015 at 5:09pm
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Steps does it matter where you put the water tray in the smoker to help with the moisture and temp? Not critical.. but definitely between the smoking chips and the fish/ food above from top of the burner to bottom of the cake tinm that holds the chips is 50mm messed with that a little +/- 10 to 15mm... found that reasonbly ideal Cake tin is 50mm deep Cake tin to water tray is about 30mm above the top of the cake tin...30 mm is a good height to check / lift lid enough see what is left... From top of water tray to 1st rack is 80mm....And racks about 80mm apart. except between the top 2 which are 60mm apart Distance between racks could go to 60mm nps BUT keep in mind what u MAYBE smoking in the future.. thick marlin or king fillets, a chicken... When ever I smoke, I fill the smoker.. if not enough fish I top up with sausages, and/or beef jerky, and/ or marinated chicken drumsticks or lamb chops...been thinking abut a bit nice pork belly sometime. So consider distance between racks...maybe vary between racks? I think closing up as u get closer to the top would be best... going on how my close racks up there work with different stuff. I recon a smoker should be the same as a garden pond, a garden even a fish tank in the house... basic rule of thumb, figure out how big u want, then to make it 'look right' work as wish... increase by 1/3 |
Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 13 May 2015 at 8:02pm
Mate I've got a UFO on a steel smoking cabinet. Do you find you have to take the UFO off and clean it after every smoke? |