FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Mental health

Page  123>
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mental health
    Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 4:34pm
Muppet View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 17906
https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/apr/06/the-gap-between-nz-labours-soaring-rhetoric-on-mental-health-and-the-reality-is-galling

The debacle continues.
They will feed you lies to make themselves look good like missing out on the important information from the report.

I know for a fact it is bad and people are waiting days for a room at MH treatment places.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BigEarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 11:38am
BigEarn View Drop Down
Bronze
Bronze


Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 97
The mental health system in this country being absolute shambles is nothing new though. Can't remember a time where it would have been anywhere near acceptable. 4 days to get a room in a MH Unit - I doubt that 99% of people who would benefit from it will get a place even close to that timeframe. From experience, there's hardly a chance to get a place, unless you're already half way up the harbour bridge with the intention to jump. Quote: "We're not referring you to MH crisis services - you're not suicidal. Just try to meet people and be more active. We'll see you again in a month."  - that's what you hear after not being functioning beyond lying in bed and eating occasionally for several months. If there is a benefit from a stay at those units is the next question - if they are run as well as the DHB MH crisis units in Auckland, I'd probably want to stay as far away from them as possible. 
Unless you got enough savings to pay for help privately and have friends/family to support you, you're screwed and even if you have the money, you have to be lucky to not waste it.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 2:17pm
Kevin.S View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Location: Waiuku
Status: Offline
Points: 6172
I met a guy in the UK who had emigrated to NZ, but had to move back to the UK because his then wife had mental health issues and couldn't get any help in NZ.  He moved back to the UK over 20 years ago so this isn't a new problem.  As successive governments have discovered, it isn't one with a simple solution either.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 5:11pm
Muppet View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 17906
No but the Guardian point is the rhetoric that Jacinda made in the 2017 election. Billions allocated since but we saw no plan on new buildings or how they going staff the places.

I do honestly think they have made it more of an issue though.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 5:24pm
Pcj View Drop Down
Bronze
Bronze


Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 32
Go back 20 or so yrs to the Clark government  closed the mental health units??
1/2 way homes closed.

Closing of the 1/2 way homes and it was raised. Who is going to disperse meds?? Labour at the time reckoned those out are responsible enough to self medicate.   20 yrs ago was the start of mental health issues on the streets and what have done,learnt??nothing.

Question for all.  If feeling down depressed etc where or what agency do you contact?? I have no idea where to find them.My guess would be the police or ambulance on 111.

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 6:13pm
Steps View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Sth Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 11241
When we have to start to train Corrections Officers in mental health stuff.. We know we have a problem.
 Those who used to be held in institutions, Now are in the community.. and where put there because of  'antisocial behavour'
 They eventually become homeless, targets for abuse, including drug abuse , end up in Prison..

There was a report put out a few yrs back about the number of people in our (over crowded) prisons because we closed down the institutions a few decades before.

They where not the most perfect of institutions, on the other hand prisons and absue and drugs on the streets in my book are even worse.

We thru away a system in a PC knee jerk reaction only to throw these ppl on the street... instead of reforming and modernising the system...

 And here we are today...
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 6:13pm
Muppet View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 17906
Personally I would go fishing, have a good meal or just spend some good time with family. Basically having a bit of gratitude for where I am in life and the world.

The seclusion thing was interesting. Very much a last resort to protect the patient or others, I know that is 💯 fact.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BigEarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 6:56pm
BigEarn View Drop Down
Bronze
Bronze


Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 97
There's a few 0800 numbers, e.g. Lifeline, which you can call and it seems to be the most popular solution apart from self-help websites, that doctors refer you to these days. I nice that those orgs provide these services, however I don't see them as sufficient in any way for someone with serious depression and nothing we should rely on as the main response. You get someone to talk to, which might better you a bit in a bad situation, but it does not replace therapy. There's no single councellour dealing with you, no follow up on where you left off last time you spoke...you talk to whoever is available at the time and end up repeating your story from scratch again and again...you might end up feeling better, but the chance is you feel even more hopeless due to the repetitive nature and no progress. Distribution of Medication is the lesser issue in my opinion. Any GP can prescribe them, however it's too often seen as the only way to help people and distributed as a quick fix. Most often it's not. First of all, none of the antidepressants works quickly, none of them works for everyone...what helps one person might make someone else feel even worse. It can be a long process of trial and error. Benzodiazipines are given out without enough warning about their addictive nature imo. I've had them in states of extreme anxiety and at the time they are great...they work quick and you feel fine for the next hours...but your body builds up tolerance quickly and you will need a higher dose quickly. Once you're off them, you're back in the same **** as before, unless you manage to use those better periods to work towards feeling better, something that is way easier, if you receive therapy that helps you with it. I've seen people who received Benzo prescriptions for a year or longer, before they were taken off them frome one day to the next...Zombies would describe some of them in the withdrawal stage pretty well, others turned to the black market to continue feeding their addiction. One of them was on 40-50 pills a day before he was sent to rehab - I took 1 a day in my worst stages and made it clear from the beginning that I do not want to have them prescribed to me for more than 2 weeks, knowing of what they can do to you long term.
The main thing lacking in my opinion is the affordable access to both stationary and ambulant therapy and councelling services. Clinics where people can stay for a few weeks with daily 1on1 and group therapy sessions without trying to cope with their day to day struggles on top of the depression are common overseas and covered by public or private health insurance, but almost non-existent here. The two or three private ones I'm aware of, you need to be filthy rich to pay for.
Private ambulant therapy sessions are easier to find - at least, if you can afford to pay 100-200/hr over a longer period of time for a Psychotherapist or counselor - plus you need to find one that works for you first. If you do find one and can afford it, it's the best thing available over here imo.
Unfortunately health insurance coverage for mental health is beyond a joke. Mine, which is by far not the worst, has an allowance that covers the cost of approx. 2.5 visits to a Psychiatrist annually, while I could spend hundreds of thousands to fix serious physical illnesses.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BigEarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 7:06pm
BigEarn View Drop Down
Bronze
Bronze


Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 97
"Personally I would go fishing, have a good meal or just spend some good time with family. Basically having a bit of gratitude for where I am in life and the world."

You can do that, when you feel a bit down. I doubt you will do it, if you're suffering from chronic depression. Or if you really manage to get out, you might spend hours crying on the river or the boat, because the thing you used to enjoy only feels hard and meaningless. You won't feel gratitude, because you will see your life being bad and hopeless, even if the reality is different.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 8:03pm
Muppet View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 17906
Sorry to hear about your struggles Big Earn. Fortunately I have never got near that, but it does not mean I don’t feel stressed or down sometimes. And that is my personal remedy.

I remember the JK ads saying similar things.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 6:44am
whippersnappyr View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 1257
I remember a thing being reported in Australia 20 years ago what with closing of MH units etc. I assume it is the same here but in the US something like 80% of homeless have MH issues, addiction or both. 

With respect to Jacinda I guess the article is just pointing out the obvious, nothing she has campaigned on has come to pass save for very simple things like increasing taxes and benefits 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 7:21am
Reel Deal View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Location: Managed ISO
Status: Offline
Points: 2841
Big Earn you are so right. My mother took on too much work in a family business and took everything personally so any failure she absorbed it. Over 6 months she went from bad to worse. Her favourite thing was to walk raglan main beach just before a storm eating fishing chips feeling the electricity and power of nature. The occasion came up and I left work grabbed her and went to the beach hoping she could have her same experience, and lift her spirit. She struggled to leave the car crying and cramping, I coxed her out and she got to the beach and just cried and rocked while I hugged her. I learnt how much I didn’t know about depression that day and set my mind to learning more. I have helped a few friends, one on the day he planned to die. My mother got given opioids and is happy all the time and can’t get off them after 15 years. Like most people who go to their doctor for help. Don’t know which is worse. I guess happy with random character changes wins over depression. Everyone gets depression most dont know they are experiencing it.

The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 1:58pm
OuttaHere View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Location: NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 2713
Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Personally I would go fishing, have a good meal or just spend some good time with family. Basically having a bit of gratitude for where I am in life and the world.



That's "a bit down" and how people who are fundamentally relatively mentally healthy deal with stress etc.

When you're clinically depressed you can't function like that. How do you go fishing if you can't face getting out of bed? I know people who, at the height of their depression, couldn't bring themselves to get in a car because they were worried they would just drive off the outside of the first decent corner.

EDIT: One bloke I know would drive his motorbike home from work each evening and basically debate just launching it under the front of each oncoming car. That is not the kind of depression you can fix with a day's fishing and a nice sit down with your family.

Double edit: Perhaps this kinda highlights why NZ can't yet make meaningful progress on mental health. There are still a load of people out there who have little to no concept of what it means to have clinical-grade mental health issues, and dare I say it but they should consider that a blessing.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 2:04pm
MB View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Location: Northland
Status: Offline
Points: 3605
Why so many mental health problems? I thought we were supposed to live in Godzone!?
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 3:52pm
Pcj View Drop Down
Bronze
Bronze


Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 32
We all feel stressed and down at times.But the problem is when its really on top of you and opening up.Opening up to friend,wife or go to the Doctor and once there"say i dont know I am here" and that is the problem.
Those that hide or do not accept they are suffering and not knowing where to turn.Sure as heck if I tried to explain my mate (known him 30 odd yrs) proberly do what most would do.
"**** thats no good" and carry on as normal.
Theres still that element around.Oh pussy or sissy,get over it.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 4:40pm
Titahi View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Location: Mount sinai
Status: Offline
Points: 3256

Deinstitutionationlisn  started in the 1960.s Big bins ( Carrington, Porirua, sunnyside)  only institutionalised people and robbed then of their ability to attempt to gain some normalcy in life. Promoting people to live independantly with supports  was and is a better model.


Remember that mental health is not just the public health system, it includes private health care providers and primary health care services( GPs)

The public system is essentially the acute tip of a pyramid.









"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 6:00am
Muppet View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 17906
Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Why so many mental health problems? I thought we were supposed to live in Godzone!?


If I could give an honest one word opinion answer it would be addiction.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 6:22am
Muppet View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 17906
Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Personally I would go fishing, have a good meal or just spend some good time with family. Basically having a bit of gratitude for where I am in life and the world.



That's "a bit down" and how people who are fundamentally relatively mentally healthy deal with stress etc.

When you're clinically depressed you can't function like that. How do you go fishing if you can't face getting out of bed? I know people who, at the height of their depression, couldn't bring themselves to get in a car because they were worried they would just drive off the outside of the first decent corner.

EDIT: One bloke I know would drive his motorbike home from work each evening and basically debate just launching it under the front of each oncoming car. That is not the kind of depression you can fix with a day's fishing and a nice sit down with your family.

Double edit: Perhaps this kinda highlights why NZ can't yet make meaningful progress on mental health. There are still a load of people out there who have little to no concept of what it means to have clinical-grade mental health issues, and dare I say it but they should consider that a blessing.


In your opinion how did they reach that place?

https://depression.org.nz/

I already highlighted JK for obvious reasons. I don’t think anything in the site was too different to what I said in helping yourself.
The only thing that would null and void good advice on that site is an addiction.


Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 6:34am
Reel Deal View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Location: Managed ISO
Status: Offline
Points: 2841
funny of all the people I have worked with with depression non had addiction. Couple were family issues and most work related. Stress anxiety pressure undermining their performance then depression sets in and then it’s coupling living in darkness with no air and no hope.

I found as with my mother the doctors “cures” create addiction. Opioids at varying levels for life. 

The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 8:15am
Muppet View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 17906
That maybe your experience but it is not what I am told in most emergency cases. It normally involves some elevated level usage of drugs or alcohol over a long period. And severe ones at that.
Back to Top
Page  123>
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.422 seconds.