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Belly Hook...Swivel or not?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Belly Hook...Swivel or not?
    Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 4:15pm
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Hey Guys,

Making up a few test baits at the moment...

I have suffered from some terminal failure at the swivel on a few stick baits I had sent out for testing recently. No problem here just need to up size the crane swivel, but it got me thinking...

What is the preference out there? Belly hook with a swivel or without...

From the builders view point it is great having a bait sealed up as eventually water will get into the wood through the hole created for the swivel and water log a lure or split it...Hopefully the lure is lost before then...

But then there is advantages to belly swivel lures ( Gamma etc...) as it can be changed out if need be and the lure re-wired... Hmmm

What are you guys finding/preferring in the field?

Cheers


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote stellajigger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 8:41am
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Timber lure  = swivel
Molded lure =no swivel
Live Bait , the Lance Armstrong of catching KINGFISH
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 12:35pm
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Originally posted by stellajigger stellajigger wrote:

Timber lure  = swivel
Molded lure =no swivel

Any reason for that Stella?

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Falco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 3:50pm
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I'm not sure it really matters when it comes to performance.
 
I would say the moulded ones are cheaper to produce because its pour and there is no rigging time and thats is why?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote stellajigger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 4:16pm
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Just think the timber will rip apart if it does not have a swivel
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 7:29pm
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Originally posted by falco falco wrote:

I'm not sure it really matters when it comes to performance.
 
I would say the moulded ones are cheaper to produce because its pour and there is no rigging time and thats is why?


That was main concern Andrew...I like having a swivel in place, will up-size to 300-400# swivels to reduce chances of failure...Next stop tuna swivels Shocked

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 7:40pm
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Originally posted by stellajigger stellajigger wrote:

Just think the timber will rip apart if it does not have a swivel


Cool Stella, I was thinking that is your reasoning...

Quite a few lures that look molded are split body timber lures. Great way of keeping a lure water tight, and you still get the strength of a wire harness through the lure. The lure below was for testing so the wire tags are simply whipped, but in production they are locked each end with a wrap.


This is a lure that was on the bench for a while not to long ago, I was aiming for a great swimming lure + casts like a bullet...Hence the ball bearings and magnet...The casting force breaks the balls free of the magnet and they head down to the tail, once in the drink they roll forward and are held by the magnet changing the ballast and helping achieve the desired swim action...You can see the wire is bent to form the belly hook hanger, once glued up and finished/epoxied it is peretty hard to tell what material is used.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ChrisW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:47pm
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Nice job RAL.  If you snagged a rock or hooked up big on the tail hook; what might the possibilty be for the wire wanting to straighten under pressure and ripping up the body?
I love the magnetic BB idea. 
give it death!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 9:43am
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Originally posted by ChrisW ChrisW wrote:

Nice job RAL.  If you snagged a rock or hooked up big on the tail hook; what might the possibilty be for the wire wanting to straighten under pressure and ripping up the body?
I love the magnetic BB idea. 

Chris, you would be relying on the wire to not deform...The wire used is 1.6mm and  500# +++ B/S mark... I would suggest you would have a terminal failure e.g. Hook / Split ring or even have to cut/break the main line before the wire deformed. It will take around 66# of point load on a STN66- 3/0 to deform...( Not scientific guys ) 

I had sent some lures with Ben. P on his trip to AU... There was a popper in the kit that only had a simple bent tow point eye like the lure above (no whipping) and it had no problems on a 40kg GT with some palming on the Stella...I now wrap and lock my eyes on the poppers as extra security..

Like so... Each is done by myself so I have total control over quality.

A destruction test would be the best way... I need to find some scales large enough and then I can see at what point the wire will 1. Deform 2. Any damage to the body etc...The hardest thing to simulate is awkwardly hooked fish..Confused 





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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 11:01am
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Would you be able to use a ball bearing swivel (they are not that dear, only about $1ea I think), if the "meat" of the swivel, the outer casing part, were to fit snuggly inside the lure, with just the spinning tip protruding below to attach the hook too, that may be one way of sealing the body of the lure. Even better, you can remove the ring at the top of the ball bearing swivel, and just run the wire directly thru the hole at the top of the swivels casing.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 11:22am
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Interesting..
 
Without the magnet, Would you get a combination Rattle and ballast shift to enhance the action or does it just tail/nosedive and ruin it?
 
 
 
 
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 1:01pm
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Originally posted by Capt Asparagus Capt Asparagus wrote:

Would you be able to use a ball bearing swivel (they are not that dear, only about $1ea I think), if the "meat" of the swivel, the outer casing part, were to fit snuggly inside the lure, with just the spinning tip protruding below to attach the hook too, that may be one way of sealing the body of the lure. Even better, you can remove the ring at the top of the ball bearing swivel, and just run the wire directly thru the hole at the top of the swivels casing.

Not silly thinking CA, there are a few lures on the market that are built as you are explaining...Mostly using crane swivels instead of the BB swivel probably cost factor. 


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote marx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 8:34pm
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I can't see the through wire ripping through  the wood on the split body method, that epoxy join would be stronger than the wood itself and the wire is smothered in epoxy.

That ball bearing magnet system would be mint if it was easy to implement, but mate that must take some work!!! How would you stop the glue getting into the ball bearing compartment when gluing?

I definitely prefer the action of lures where the centre of gravity is a bit closer to the centre than most purely tail weighted lures. Gives that tail a really nice erratic wag........ but then you loose out on casting distance. That ball bearing magnet system would give you the best of both.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 11:15pm
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Originally posted by jaypeegee jaypeegee wrote:

Interesting..
 
Without the magnet, Would you get a combination Rattle and ballast shift to enhance the action or does it just tail/nosedive and ruin it?
 
 
 
 

They don't really rattle as the wood body deadens the noise...You hear a dull "thwack" when casting as the BB's hit the tail end tho LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 11:25pm
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Originally posted by marx marx wrote:

I can't see the through wire ripping through  the wood on the split body method, that epoxy join would be stronger than the wood itself and the wire is smothered in epoxy.

That ball bearing magnet system would be mint if it was easy to implement, but mate that must take some work!!! How would you stop the glue getting into the ball bearing compartment when gluing?

I definitely prefer the action of lures where the centre of gravity is a bit closer to the centre than most purely tail weighted lures. Gives that tail a really nice erratic wag........ but then you loose out on casting distance. That ball bearing magnet system would give you the best of both.

You know how much work is involved in even the most simplest of lures. So carving these out takes a lot of time and patience...Remove some wood, check clearance and repeat...

As for stopping the glue etc. What you see is a very basic prototype, there is a lot more to it but if you want to know more or try one flick me a PM...Can't give everything away now can I Wink

As for more centred lures, they have a different swimming quality altogether...Some require no rod work just a steady retrieve...Horses for courses I suppose Smile
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