Leaf Springs on 40year old trailer.

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    Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 6:11pm
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I'm posting this there rather than my build thread in the hope of a wider audience, and it's a trailer question.

My trailer frame has been completely stripped and is getting hot galv dipped. I am planning to paint the axle with POR15 then topcoat with a a zinc paint. I went back and forth on removing the leaf springs, as I have never done that before then decided to jump in. Off came the right spring. I cut the top off two of the bolts on this one as the threads were deformed. Then ran the nut off repairing the thread. The springs themselves look solid as, only surface rust but I am not sure about the bolts and that rusty pin in the middle of the plate. I don't know how it comes out though I assume it's possible. 

Whats the best thing to do from here? Replace the whole spring set ~$250. Replace just the bolts, or just clean and reassemble.

 
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The question is where do you stop spending money. I'm reasonably capable at fixing stuff but I just took my trailer to a local guy with a good reputation and said 'fixit'. He did wheel bearings, new springs, everything except the electrical which I did. All up it was 3 thousand bucks but that included a lot of new steel in a lot of places etc. A new trailer was 5.5. Border line. Looking at your pics I would just clean what you've got and replace the bolts. Leave the centre pin alone. Either that or spend another 250. The springs look way better than mine but I haven't towed my boat more than 5km in years.
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There will never be an easier time to replace. $250 isn't much in the scheme of things but not inclined to spend it if it's not needed. I really do want to pull them apart to have a look though. For peace of mind if nothing else. 

If and when I do replace the springs (maybe some years out) then I'd be looking at the one piece parabolics. No way for salt water to get in between then. 
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With all the effort you've put in.
Go peace of mind. Replace.
Be sure there appropriate, slightly over spec.
Adjust the ride through tyre pressures.

Immerse fully galvanised replacements in a lanolin greas bath, after they have aged a few months.

Move on to the next part of the project.
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Here’s a question: Do trailer springs need bushings? The current ones are steel on steel.
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Originally posted by OneWayTraffic OneWayTraffic wrote:

There will never be an easier time to replace. $250 isn't much in the scheme of things but not inclined to spend it if it's not needed. I really do want to pull them apart to have a look though. For peace of mind if nothing else. 

If and when I do replace the springs (maybe some years out) then I'd be looking at the one piece parabolics. No way for salt water to get in between then. 

Your set of springs look in remarkably good condition considering their age. The rebound clip looks really sound.

I am not sure of your DIY skills (you are certainly doing a great job building your C17 boat) but you can dismantle the leaf springs by prying them off the centre bolt. Apply lots of penetrating liquid (CRC Penetr8) Keep them in order.

You may have to drill the centre bolt out if it is rusted in too firmly. The centre bolt is high tensile steel. You can machine the hex of a high tensile bolt to match the location hole dimension in your axle.
Purchase new clamp bolts and hanger bolts as well.

If you cannot perform the dismantling and reassembling yourself it will be more economical to purchase a new set of springs as labour rates to perform this work could well be be greater than $250.
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Originally posted by OneWayTraffic OneWayTraffic wrote:

Here’s a question: Do trailer springs need bushings? The current ones are steel on steel.

The majority will have some style of bush ie: Nylon or steel sleeve. It is also common to have no bush as the movement arc length is small and surface speed slow so the wear rate is low. 
The shackle pin is the sacrificial component having less wear resistance than spring steel.
Is there any ovality present in your spring eyes? 
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I have no idea if the springs are original or not. The spring eyes seem round to my view, I'll have a better look tomorrow. The hanger bolt was worn down a fair bit. No idea how old. Already got a 8.8 bolt to replace it with. Just one. The guy at Blacks didn't hear when I asked for two, and I didn't check. Ouch Have to make another trip into town. 

I was looking at some spring kits: 

https://www.marine-deals.co.nz/trailer-suspension/trojan-trailer-taper-leaf-spring-kit

One issue is the dimensions: They are 770mm long, 45mm wide andhave a 16mm eye. The leaf kits in that length and size all have 12mm but with a bushing I assume that if I pop the bushing out, it becomes 16mm. I could use a 12mm bolt, but the eye hanger is fixed to the trailer, and getting regalved. That's 16mm of course. That makes the options a bit more limited. I can't put a 12mm bolt in the 16mm hanger eye, can I buy a steel bushing wide enough to go through? Alternatively pop out the bushing and buy a 16mm bolt. 

At this stage on the fence about fixing vs buying. I'll keep cleaning it out, but if I can't get it fully disassembled then better to buy new. 
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Originally posted by OneWayTraffic OneWayTraffic wrote:

I have no idea if the springs are original or not. The spring eyes seem round to my view, I'll have a better look tomorrow. The hanger bolt was worn down a fair bit. No idea how old. Already got a 8.8 bolt to replace it with. Just one. The guy at Blacks didn't hear when I asked for two, and I didn't check. Ouch Have to make another trip into town. 

I was looking at some spring kits: 

https://www.marine-deals.co.nz/trailer-suspension/trojan-trailer-taper-leaf-spring-kit

One issue is the dimensions: They are 770mm long, 45mm wide andhave a 16mm eye. The leaf kits in that length and size all have 12mm but with a bushing I assume that if I pop the bushing out, it becomes 16mm. I could use a 12mm bolt, but the eye hanger is fixed to the trailer, and getting regalved. That's 16mm of course. That makes the options a bit more limited. I can't put a 12mm bolt in the 16mm hanger eye, can I buy a steel bushing wide enough to go through? Alternatively pop out the bushing and buy a 16mm bolt. 

At this stage on the fence about fixing vs buying. I'll keep cleaning it out, but if I can't get it fully disassembled then better to buy new. 



If it was my trailer I would cut the old hangers off and weld new hangers on.
This would make future changes very easy as they would match off the shelf items.
Sometimes the spring eye is not formed concentric or finished appropriately so a bush is used. You may be able to remove the bush and it is ready to accept the 16mm hanger bolt.

To allow the bolt, hanger, spring eye configuration you have is likely going to require machining or welding of some degree.
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Thanks for this. Food for thought. It certainly seems like you know your leaf springs. Like many things on this little project I am doing this for the first time, and just jumped in. I don't mind rewelding the hangers, but wish I'd thought of that before dipping the frame, rather than after. 


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As mentioned above those springs look in rather good condition, including the centering pin.
 Always replace the bolts..
In most cases where a WoF fails its is the nuts and bolts rather than the springs hangers etc.

Fully dismantling spring sets is not for most home workshops.
 Also because of this POR15 / anti corrosion paints dont last up well because of friction and movement between leafs.
 Clean up decrease, and anti rust treat with phosphoric acid.
 POR or what ever as your 'base' Then finish with regular maintenance of  lanocane type product.
 Including back of hubs/ axles and axles.

 Going on what can be seen in the pics, the condition of parts etc, that is the route I would be going down.

Long term if a person who uses boat goes home forgets there is a trailer under it, replace suspension...new suspension will last longer .

If a person who washes down , lets dry, lubs moving parts, wheel nuts, and regular lancocoat maintenance ,  new bolts / nut, clean up..
 And will last just as long , most likely longer than a full re fit.

 Also note suspension welding should be done by certified welders.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 11:17am
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I have had 4 boat trailers. All had a single leaf spring that rusted very quickly, badly. Much quicker than the galvanised parts. The rust spread from the spring leaf to the near galvanising. 
Can you get spring leafs that are rust resistant?

Other parts that rust far too quickly, include Trojan coupling parts, and wheel hubs and nuts. 

Its poor that trailer makers use non-rust-resistant parts.


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I pulled off the springs, both sides. The springs do look good still, but I haven't been able to get them apart. Am replacing with new ones rather than muck around with the springs. Cost of a full set not so very much more than 10 bolts and less mucking around. I feel like I have a boat in me, not so much a leaf spring rebuild. There's also the chance to go down to a 1000kg set, should be a better ride. 

 Found the drain holes for the axle, right under the rusted centre pin. One of those things that makes perfect sense once you have pulled it apart. I have sanded off the rust around where the bolts were clamping to the axle with a flap disk on a grinder, and after some consideration of pros and cons decided to try and rinse out the axle insides with water and degreaser It's sitting on the lawn now soaking. Will rinse and dry out thoroughly, using a hot air gun to speed it along and then (after painting) will fill them with oil facing up, and then clamp the springs on top to control interior rust. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 1:07pm
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I figure if I have the drain holes facing up, then a little fibreglass patch will permanently seal them. Either that or rubber plugs.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Joker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 2:29pm
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Now you have the springs off and cleaned liberally grease them everywhere and wrap in plumber Denso tape and they will last another 40 years.

I did it years ago and they lasted 18 years till I sold the boat.

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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:



 Also note suspension welding should be done by certified welders.
 



Home workshop owners (DIY) are exempted from having to hold AS/NZS 1554 Welding certification for home built trailers, including welding on new hangers , stub axles etc.

For WOF the welding will be visually inspected.

If there are doubts with ones welding ability it is advised to seek a professional welder or a more skilled person to perform the welding!
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Joker: Agreed that the springs have a lot of life in them but I didn’t want to muck around getting them apart, the centre bolt is rusted right in.

Steps and Motorhead: Never welded before, so I’d not choose to learn on a trailer spring hanger towed behind my family car with my pride and joy on top! Good to know that expert DIYers are allowed to weld their own.
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After a good degrease and metal prep I applied the first coat of POR15 about an hour ago. May be able to get another coat on tonight.
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Originally posted by OneWayTraffic OneWayTraffic wrote:

Joker: Agreed that the springs have a lot of life in them but I didn’t want to muck around getting them apart, the centre bolt is rusted right in.

Steps and Motorhead: Never welded before, so I’d not choose to learn on a trailer spring hanger towed behind my family car with my pride and joy on top! Good to know that expert DIYers are allowed to weld their own.

Agree, leave that type of welding to someone with proven welding skill. Practise on bits of scrap if you feel the need to learn how to weld.


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Mate I would not touch single leaf springs. They break far too frequently. If they happen to break between the eye bolt and the axle mount there's nothing holding yr axle on and they come out the bk of the trailer and take mudguards and anything else out on the way thru. Good for trailer builders like me but no good for your bank balance.
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