Trident Cameras....Another MPI Fail

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Derek F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Trident Cameras....Another MPI Fail
    Posted: 25 Jun 2016 at 10:35am
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TV 1 thismorning.  Trident states, "the power is with the fishman",
"footage will only be available to MPI if the fisherman allows" and "data can be aggregated so that data released can not identify the boat it came from. 

How can MPI suggest they are looking after public values?
The fisheries have bought it to Trident and now control everything.
Sounds like they will only ever release data that is positive them.


And the trouble is, if you don't risk anything, you risk even more...Erica Jong
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2016 at 10:56am
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Seems to be a bit ridiculous as an enforcement tool, but is it being touted as an enforcement tool or a fisheries management tool? BIG difference, one WE want, one THEY want.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Derek F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2016 at 2:44pm
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Would you not think the govt could enforce it as both? Seems very weak management to me. 
And the trouble is, if you don't risk anything, you risk even more...Erica Jong
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2016 at 3:25pm
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I am not arguing that. I would have thought the idea was for supervision and enforcement, but perhaps that is a bit too much to expect of commercially funded "civil servants".
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2016 at 4:40pm
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Enforcement = government and industry spin to try and pacify the angry public
Industry control of what is reported = government - industry agreement

Is there anyone on here who didn't think from the way that the government presented this that it wasn't going to be used for enforcement to stop criminal industry behavior?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2016 at 6:15pm
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Certainly it seemed to me that the cams were for enforcement purposes. To have them there for exactly NOT enforcement....seems pointless and a flat out lie to me.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Derek F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 8:08am
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And because the fisherman has total control over the footage it will only be used to "justify" more quota etc.
And the trouble is, if you don't risk anything, you risk even more...Erica Jong
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote widerange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 8:42am
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Corruption ,I think is the word you're looking for
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 9:11am
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It sounds suspiciously so, doesn't it.
So it goes...."so mr fisherman, was it a good day?" "Yup, got fifty bins of gurnard as planned.".."can we look at the film?" "Sure!"
Next day, ditto, and so on for a month, then....
"So how did you go today?" " Terrible! we were trolling along, then the bag just got caught on the bottom or something, popped open and we lost a bag full of fish! Luckily we already had most of what we wanted of gurnard,so it wasn't a total disaster...."
"Gosh, that's a shame, we have reports of miles of dumped snapper out there, mind if we look at your footage today?"
"Nope, pluck off".
"Oh, righto then, see you tomorrow then!" Wink wink
"No worries" wink wink.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 9:14am
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The anti super trawler group in Australia want to see the footage from the "geelong star" yes you can see the footage for a fee and then only then if the owners give permission to veiw such footage.

So hear in NZ Trident will/can install cameras,fair enough even though owned by a  vested  interest 3rd party.   Should we the public or lobby groups have access?? certainly mpi should have access and should be able to conduct prosecutions through footage supplied and cameras should have anti tamper seals(like power meters)


Think us reccs are really missing the point. As comms have said for awhile now we will comply with self reporting when the reccs have to report their catches,so to satisfy all maybe we need to think about reporting our catch?what have we got to hide??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 9:33am
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Because it won't be just saying "5 snapper, three kahawai and a JD"
It'll be
Time of departurure.
Location of catch (GPS coordinates)
Location of snapper
Weights/length of each snapper
Location of kahawai
Weight/length of each kahawai
Location of JD
Weight/length of each JD
Number of fish caught and released.
Species of released fish
Size of released fish.
Baits used
Lures used.
Name of all anglers on vessel.
Name of boat
Type/make of boat
Time of return
Copy for MPI
Copy for doc
Copy for self.
Daily return (including non fishing days)
Weekly return (including non fishing days)
Monthly return (inc non fishing days)
Triplicate copies of each.
$750 instant fine for not making weekly returns within two weeks
$7500 fine for not making monthly returns within thirty days.

There, that's not so bad us it? It is for the good of the fishery after all, surely you don't mind helping to improve fish stocks? It's for the public good.
Oh, because we need to hire more staff to run these numbers, there is a $25 fee for each daily report, a $75 fee for each weekly report and a $125 fee for each monthly report...user pays you know, it IS for the good of the fisheries after all......
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 9:35am
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Oh, and if that seems improbably ridiculous and over the top, it is pretty much what charter operators have to do these days......


Edit:- PJC, sorry, the above may have looked like I was getting at you, but the "you" I was meaning was recreational fishermen, from the point of view of the bureaucrats assigned to enforce the recreational catch forms regime. It wasn't a dig at you mate.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Marligator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 10:26am
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The other thing that will happen is that the recreational sector will be given a Total Allowable Recreational Catch (TARC) for each species, and as the population increases the daily bag limit will decrease until you get the situation where you will only be allowed to catch a certain species on X days of the year and only one or two of that species each time. This is what has happened in some states in the US with some fish species.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sposman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 10:54am
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Probably time to sell boats while there is still a market for them. Looks like the writing is on the wall. Maybe a launch is the way to go then you can have a cruise, a fish,then eat it for dinner before coming in.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 11:55am
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Originally posted by Marligator Marligator wrote:

The other thing that will happen is that the recreational sector will be given a Total Allowable Recreational Catch (TARC) for each species, and as the population increases the daily bag limit will decrease until you get the situation where you will only be allowed to catch a certain species on X days of the year and only one or two of that species each time. This is what has happened in some states in the US with some fish species.  

That isn't what WILL happen, it is what has happened. That is the whole process of the QMS. That is why the recreational snapper tonnage allowance in SNA1 was increased by 500 tonnes at the same time as our daily catch limit was dropped to 7. That is why our daily catch limits in SNA1 have gone 30, 20, 15, 9 , 7. It is very easy to see where that trend line goes. What annoys me is that the snapper stocks were fished to the current (less actually) very low levels by mass commercial exploitation, and could support a higher recreational take if they were allowed to recover. So the commercial industry destroys the stock and then we pay for it to recover or be sustained. That is our QMS.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 11:57am
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All good Capt A,at some point we will need to relent a little of what we do,both sides need to give and take,it may look like we give and they take. Overall we are lucky that we can buy a boat go fishing ,no licence for boat or fish,only restriction is our bag limit. I would conform to a simple reporting system. fish caught species/number log book type thing that needs to kept onboard?who said it need be accurate though?
But they would need to agree any dodgey fishing practices caught on camera or camera turned off for no apparent reason ,prosecutions will take place,if it a case of wasting fish due to quota holder dictating the rules and proven then holder to face prosecution.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Derek F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 12:19pm
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PJC...Who has been giving all along?  They are in the position they are because they have always taken all they can, never given.
And the trouble is, if you don't risk anything, you risk even more...Erica Jong
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 1:31pm
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Originally posted by Derek F Derek F wrote:

PJC...Who has been giving all along?  They are in the position they are because they have always taken all they can, never given.
maybe it should of read we had taken from us!yes we have given simply because we have never stood as a body to fight mpi on any decisions.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote PriceofFish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 3:30pm
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 Sorry guys wrong thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 3:34pm
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well said guys,
we need a few solution, that could put this back in prospective,

1st > there is no reason Fishing Companies should be able to interfere

2nd> MPI fishery, certainly needs a total revamp, having a watch dog that is nothing more than a lapdog, which is covering up by hiding any angle to stop Rec's getting info that will discredit Fishing Companies.

3rd> filming on fishing boats while out at sea, footage needs to be independently reviewed, enforcement with no outside interference has to be put in place, if they do not sign up NO FISHING.
this is how it has to be, only a independent company can watch this footage then report back to everyone the offending boats and size of the offence, this is totally against LAW i am sure.

it has to be taken out of the hands of Fishing Companies,

i laugh the other day the Nation President has been told no more attending any fish debates as this could cause a conflict.

Sir Winston Peters has been doing his part already about winding up those in power his thoughts about this.
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