Coarse Fishing

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    Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 12:09pm
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Well firstly Hi to everyone out there in fishing land, hope you all had a great new year!!!
 
Long time watcher/reader short term member and only second time poster here....please be easy on me...Tongue
 
Anyway thought I would try and start a discussion on coarse fishing which hopefully doesnt fall into the same old argument that I have read on here time and time again!!! (please)
 
My first love in Angling is Coarse Fishing but I do also dabble in every other form (now and again) but what I cant understand is the almost dismisal of this branch of the sport, its techniques and the sport which can be gained from the limited number of coarse species here in NZ.  With the correct gear even the smallest fish can put up a challenge to the angler so why is it dismissed so much? In the more built up areas it can provide an opportunity to get out and wet a line in waters which otherwise would provide little other than somewhere to feed the ducks.  So why then is it not given a fair go?  I would also be interested to here from anyone else that at least has a dabble for some of the coarse fish species out there.
 
Again please refer to 3rd line of post above, can we have a reasonable discussion on the topic???
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rusky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 5:28pm
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I have no problem with people coarse fishing, its when they release Koi Carp (classed as a noxious pest) that gets under my skin.  And also the fact that it is illegal to do so.
 
I personally cannot see it becoming as popular as places like the UK, and don't see the reason for it as NZ has so much else to offer. Hunting, Freshwater fishing, Saltwater fishing, spectacular diving/scenary, the list is endless.
 
You will get a better response on www.coarsefishing.co.nz with the many other muppets from the other side of the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Anguilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 8:34pm
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Thanks for the warm welcome (I think....)

 

 Was hoping we might have got past post #2 before the same old topic reared its head my question was about coarse fishing nothing else...
 
I agree I doubt it will ever become vastly popular but do you not think it could possibly have its place in the high population areas which are not exactly rich in trout fishing opportunities?
 
But to be fair do you not think all these opportunities are available in most places the UK included???
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I think most people bite there tounge when the word coarsefishing comes on here, as its not really the place for it.  Hence the no replys as of yet.
 
No I don't think it will catch on in NZ.  Its like fishing for Kingfish, you come to NZ for the big fish, and if you want big carp you go to the UK. Simple as that really.
 
Yea all the opportunitys I mentioned are available in other parts of the world, but some of the quality of these can be found no where in the world except here.  What I'm saying is stick to what you have instead of dont have.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 9:02pm
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It can be a lot of fun heading to the waikato hydrolakes... namely karapiro actually, and fishing for the rudd there. There are masses of the little sods there, catch as many as you like mate, rip into them!
I don't think anyone is going to nail you up for enjoying your coarse fishing, heck, fishing is fishing is fishing as far as I am concerned, it was just the tenor of some other posters to whom you not-so-obliquely refer that ruffled many feathers here.
Hey, if you have yarns ot spin of places, techniques and captures around the countriside, I for one would be happy to read out them.
Go for it mate, no worries at all.
Mind you.... with the same light tackle you may use for rudd or whatever, wouldn't you rather hook into a school of kahawai instead? Now that WOULD test your tackle! :-)
Cheers, and indeed, welcome to the site, feel free to post up as much as you like, as often as you like, about whatever you like, you shouldn't catch too much flak really mate,
Stu.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 9:21pm
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I think you might be surprised how much interest there is in coarse fishing around here. Unfortunately a few rat bags have given the thing a bad name with illegals fish releases and spreading of noxious fish... but your points are valid.
 
In fact it's common sense that no one here would have a problem with anyone fishing legally anywhere... it's what we do...
 
Post away.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Doubie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 9:30pm
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Anguilla, there is definitely a course fishing prescence here, although to be fair it is practiced mainly by 'ex-pats' from the UK and the gear is often bought in from there as well. There is probably not the concentration of punters here to enable a larger scale business to be built up.
See what happens here on the site, but there will be some around that will have feedback and there is certainly a couple of groups at least in Auckland that take regular trips as Capt Asparagus says to the Waikato - there are actually a few smaller ponds that I have heard of closer to Auckland than Karapiro as wellWink
Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 9:54pm
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O.K. lets see if we can provide some possible answers to your queries.
 
Firstly can we ask for an honest answer to a question ........ namely ....
Do you belong, patronise or visit the www.coarsefishing.co.nz  ?
 
If so, then you will find members here & most other fishing sites will be
very suspicious of your agenda & motivation.
 
Why ??????? ..... Because of the policies & illegal tactics the site
advocates, along with the stated intention of causing disruption to any 
other sites that are in principle, opposed to their way of thinking.
There have been at least two attempts to do so on this site & they
are invariably initiated, by an innocent looking post such as yours,
then rapidly lead towards the intended main agenda.
 
If you are not part of that site & your post is genuine then good luck,
however I will be very surprised if there will be anyone on this site
interested in discussing coarse fishing with you. Therefore as Rusky
rightly states, why not patronise that site, where you are bound to
find endless like minded coarsefishers?
 
Why are so many NZ citizens opposed to coarse fish you ask ??????
 
Largely because they have no place here, they were imported then
illegally bred & distributed/released, initially by one individual in
particular. We can only hope that he & others that joined in, were
genuine in the belief that they were providing an alternative form of 
freshwater sportsfishing even if ignorant of the disastrous legacy they
were inflicting on our waterways. It is far too high a long term 
environmental price to pay for the sake of the very questionable value
of an additional form of "sport"
The fact that VERY few NZ ers are involved in coarse fishing has to be
an indication of how lowly it is valued. I think you would agree, that it 
would be fair comment to say most of those involved are from a similar 
background i.e. from a country where coarse fishing has existed for
centuries. That is fine, but we NEVER wanted them here in the first
place & would now love to get rid of them by whatever means possible.
 
As a coarsefisher, if you are honest then almost certainly you will know
of incidents where coarse fish are still being illegally introduced into
new localities, or species that by law must be killed, being released.
 
O.K. whether we like it or not, the damage has been done & these
noxious pests are now widespread in our waterways. Unfortunately we
cannot turn back the clock, so if you want to go catch & kill as many as
possible, then do so with our blessing.
 
However if you subscribe to releasing or further introducing noxious
species .... then you are IMO deserving of contempt from all the law
abiding citizens of this country & in particular freshwater sportfishers.
 
If you are a responsible coarsefisher, then the comments stated above
are not applicable so apologies are in order .... however if you are NOT
...... then they are nowhere near harse enough.
 
You did after all ask for honest answers to your queries & trust you have
received some.
 
I am sure I can speak for most of the members here in stating, that like
yourself we are not the slightest bit interested in pursuing the same old
tired arguments over & over again.
 
Cheers
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Doubie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 10:01pm
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Well Bazza, I learned something from that very 'passionate' and obviously learned opinion on coarse fishing. Thanks for the bit of knowledgeThumbs%20Up
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sputnik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 11:00pm
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"Passionate" it may have been but it was very short on facts! Both Tench and Perch were brought here in the 1860's/70's ... the same time as trout! and they were not introduced "illegally"!
 
 
 
 
Edit:
 
Forgot goldfish too.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Doubie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 11:07pm
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Thanks Sputnik - guess I learned something else today as well. They seem to have been round for a while as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2009 at 11:12pm
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That's true Bazza, both salmon and trout can also be considered illegal non-native species. Forest and Bird actually had a policy a few years ago in the height of their eco-nazi days that they wanted all trout streams poisoned to get rid of this infestation.
Anguilla (Eel?).., if you are just keen on yarning about coarse fishing, you just post yer little heart out, I for one would be interested, although perhaps not likely to be sufficiently motivated to do it myself! :-)
Bazza, give the guy a break... and if Anguilla is part of some deeper conspiracy, then I guess sooner or later we will find out...til then, make nice, OK? :-)
Cheers,
Stu the moderator-who-will-jump-on-anything-heated-or-snarky-that-develops-in-this-thread. (golly, what a long name.)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2009 at 9:30am
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Originally posted by Capt Asparagus Capt Asparagus wrote:

That's true Bazza, both salmon and trout can also be considered illegal non-native species. Forest and Bird actually had a policy a few years ago in the height of their eco-nazi days that they wanted all trout streams poisoned to get rid of this infestation.
Anguilla (Eel?).., if you are just keen on yarning about coarse fishing, you just post yer little heart out, I for one would be interested, although perhaps not likely to be sufficiently motivated to do it myself! :-)
Bazza, give the guy a break... and if Anguilla is part of some deeper conspiracy, then I guess sooner or later we will find out...til then, make nice, OK? :-)
Cheers,
Stu the moderator-who-will-jump-on-anything-heated-or-snarky-that-develops-in-this-thread. (golly, what a long name.)
 
Fair enough Captain, however I for one would like an answer to the
question of if they are in anyway connected to the coarse fishing site.
 
The reason being as stated, that the M/O in the past has been to
"infiltrate" sites with a seemingly innocent post, which develops into a
sudden "induction" of new new "protaganists" to push their agenda.
 
Would suggest that anyone that doubts such an agenda exists, that
they visit the site in question themselves. It is highly probable that
posts, many by the site administrator, actively promoting the illegal
release of koi etc. along with goading comments about how ineffectice
DOC & others are to prevent them from doing so. They also state how
successful they are at being deliberately disruptive to other sites that
do not share their viewpoint. I would not be at all surprised if in the
interim such posts have been removed, if sothen will have to rely on
the word of those of us that read them.
 
The last time they attempted to do so, the thread was closed down,
presumably for this very reason. On this occassion the ruse to establish
or initiate the "debate" was a query as to access to an area of Lake
Karapiro by Simon Behere who is the site administrator & possibly the
owner of the coarsefishing site. So surely we have to ask ourselves,
just how genuine was such a post by a person actively promoting
coarsefishing (including illegal tactics) that lives locally in Hamilton.
It was anticipated that after the closing of the thread a further attempt
would be made & hopefully this is not the beginning of one.
 
Many of the others that suddenly jump on the bandwagon in support 
do so under different usernames & one person at least changed their
username three times on that thread alone ..... Why the need for such
apparent subterfuge????
 
I agree totally Captain that anyone that is genuine ( hopefully Anguilla is)
should be free to post on this site as much as anybody & whilst I do not
consider myself paranoid regards the possibility of a hidden agenda, given
historic events so would prefer to err on the side of caution from the start.
 
Therefore would feel far more comfortable if the question was answered
...... Do you have any connection with the coarsefishing.nz site & what is
your attitude towards the illegal release of koi carp etc. ?
 
My thoughts anyway & if Anguilla or anyone for that matter can give 
assurance they are not here to in anyway promote illegal tactics or
disruption to this site, then they should be made to feel most welcome.
If such proves to be the case I will offer full apologies for having held 
unfounded suspicions.
 
Cheers
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Anguilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2009 at 9:35am
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Well at least I logged on this morning and had a response....
 
A few points in reply
 
Yes of course I understand the "anti" feeling against the coarse fishing fraternity in general, but as Bazza said what has been done has been done....
 
And as rightly pointed out the coarse fish (lets keep this to the recognised sports fish) have been here just as long if not longer than the others (trout and salmon)
 
My point is and I can understand the anti feeling by reading other posts is why not use what is here?  Yes Coarse fishing is seen by some as "mud fishing" and a pursuit of small fish but with the right tackle then some will put up a fight to be proud of.
 
I dont want to see fish spread/released/ etc I want to hopefully discuss without random remarks re the past and pests and all the usual posts which have been done time and time again...
 
My real point is that for some the scenic fishing we all dream of and are fortunate enough to have access to is not readily available to others, ie they cant travel too far, are too young to afford it, struggle climbing to outback virgin streams.  But Im sure would enjoy fishing as much as we all do if given the opportunity.  I am in Auckland and I know of several waters which could hardly be described as perfect trout venues but could, with the right management offer a fishing resource which would be of great benefit to the population around them. and at the end of the day if its your personal cu of tea or not isnt that what its all about?  Getting people "hooked"???
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barbary B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2009 at 9:46am
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Before you start pointing the bone Sputnik I think if you re-read Bazza's post - you will find it says they "were imported then illegally bred & distributed/released".  - it doesnt say at all that they were illegally imported.
 
Granted its ambiguous but be very careful of your own facts right before making calls like that.
 
Personally - the illegal releases in Otatoa were a travesty where a couple of short sighted and selfish people f*cked up a resource that was used by a much larger group of people. The resentment runs very deep and I wont go there at all now as last time I did it took all my self control not to throw three coarse fishing immigrants and their gear far into the lake.
 
There vented my spleen - have a good time coarse fishing.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Anguilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2009 at 9:47am
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Bazza to answer your question.

I am a reader of that site but not a member, it has provided me with good information about the fishing I enjoy and as such I do use it for my own gain but that is all. I have been in NZ for over 23 years and consider myself a kiwi (well almost) I do still have the occasional pang for home but Im sure I would be sorely dissapointed if I did ever venture back to my homeland...

 
I do not promote the spread or relase of any fish, whatever its classification into any waterway, why would you?  There is limitless amounts of waters/banks/venues etc etc available.
 
My view on the whole fish spreading thing - I am not privvy to any knowledge about who spread these fish originally but yes I agree Im sure a lot of it was deliberate, and was probably (hopefully) done in the belief it would give fishing opportunities not with any intent to affect what was already there, but now in the present, I believe it will never stop, Im not sure it is still done to any extent by people (anglers) but it has now reached such a mass of fish that the spread will continue as far as naturally possible, every flood will see fish move from one water to another. Every new drain dug will provide another avenue for fish movements etc etc  
 
To those who say "I cannot dispatch a fish because my morals do not allow it" then I say "dont go fishing then, or fish for something that you can return unharmed"
 
I hope the above is answer enough.....Smile
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Originally posted by Barbary B Barbary B wrote:

Before you start pointing the bone Sputnik I think if you re-read Bazza's post - you will find it says they "were imported then illegally bred & distributed/released".  - it doesnt say at all that they were illegally imported.
 
Granted its ambiguous but be very careful of your own facts right before making calls like that.
 
Personally - the illegal releases in Otatoa were a travesty where a couple of short sighted and selfish people f*cked up a resource that was used by a much larger group of people. The resentment runs very deep and I wont go there at all now as last time I did it took all my self control not to throw three coarse fishing immigrants and their gear far into the lake.
 
There vented my spleen - have a good time coarse fishing.
 
A valid point yes of course some waters have been totally taken over by introduced fish be they trout, tench perch rudd etc etc but the people fishing today have no doubt very little to do with how those fish got there and may well not even remember the fishery as you do...but we do need to accept that it will probably now remain like that as long as we are all capable of holding a rod, Confused
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2009 at 10:19am
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Good on the guys for answering, but Bazza, why not just let it lie. There's a moderator in here who is obviously watching and interested... if they start crap they'll be gone in a heartbeat. no point looking for a fight where there isn't one... because usually if you look for trouble you'll find it.

 
As for tench and Rudd, yes they were imported legally... they were distributed illegally principally in the 1970's and '80's... by coarse fishermen.
 
Trout do not fall into the same category... they generate tens of millions of dollars in tourist revenue every year and many coarse fish situations are actually costing the taxpayer. Trout have been part of the New2 Zealand Outdoor tradition now for well over 100 years and have not displaced or destroyed any other fishery to exist. It's not about elitist... You shouldn't care if someone thinks you are mudfishing... many saltwater guys don't "get" what trout fishing is about and I don't give a $hit about and neither should you. However when you state there are countless options for coarse fishing remember the reason for that is illegal releases. The only reason you don't have to release illegally is because someone else did. And there were more trout fisheries in the Upper part of the North island before those releases than there is now... because of those releases. Some of the coarse fishermen have been very frugal with the facts on this or completely ignorant of them.
 
It is about fisheries and waterways being ruined and the illegal activities of many participants. But iof someone enjoys it and practises it all legally as far as I'm concerned... more power to them.
 
personally I have abit of a desire for a Carp on fly... and I can always use more burley.
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Thanks Clark
 
Carp on a fly, can you tie something to imitate a dog biscuit or a piece of bread crust?  Would that still technically be a fly???LOL
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Originally posted by Capt Asparagus Capt Asparagus wrote:

That's true Bazza, both salmon and trout can also be considered illegal non-native species.
 
Sorry Stu, no they can't... Big%20smile! Trout and salmon (and Perch, Tench and Rudd for that matter) were imported and released with government encouragement, funding and blessing, by Acclimaisation societies. However the distribution of such has always been illegal without permits from the Acclimatisation societies and today DOC and Fish and Game. Still illegal to release, or distribute trout or salmon without permission. But the introduction of many coarse species since those days has been illegal and the distribution most definately has. Perch are a pretty good fly and spionner target too.
 
Anyway enough of that because this is the direction these threads go when they end in tearsLOL.
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