Create Profile or Login

Forum Menu

Home > Forum Home > Saltwater Fishing > Popper and Topwater Fishing

StickBait/Popper HookSize questions

  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - StickBait/Popper HookSize questions Forum Search Events FAQ FAQRegister RegisterLogin Login

 Post Reply Post Reply
Page  12>
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: StickBait/Popper HookSize questions
    Posted: 18 May 2011 at 12:57pm
jaypeegee View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Location: Neo Tea Roa
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
Hey all
Been making stickbaits and poppers
Slowly poorly but with great intentions
May even get good some day (Once I graduate from whittling with a knife)
 
Gotta buy some more split rings and treble hooks
 
Re the hooks
 
 
Is the above worthwhile?
 
What is the relationship between hook size and lure size? Yes I am tryng different combinations, But i you can shed light, provide opinion that wil be welcome..
 
I am more into the R&D stage with what I am making so want to keep my costs down initially
Also as I seem to lose lures regularly longevity isnt a high concern just yet
 
Re split Rings
 
Again: as an intial entry point. How poor a choice will these be?
 
 
Cheers for your answers..
 
 
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2011 at 1:47pm
Capt Asparagus View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2002
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 13168
No to both mate. 60lb split rings are totally inadequate for saltwater fish, and bronzed hooks are also known as "Insta-rust" for very good reasons.
Easiest way mate is just to goto a tackle shop, and buy a packetof good 150-200lb splitring and a packet of say Owner  treble hooks. Hooks ain't the cheap part of the lure really, but they are the bit that holds onto the fish, so you will want them to be up to the task, eh.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2011 at 1:50pm
Legacy View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Location: Huia
Status: Offline
Points: 2788
How about Owner ST66 size 2's for up to about 65gr , size 3's for up to about 100gr and 4's for up to about 140gr, oh and size 1's for the 40gr range . Roughly, anyway.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2011 at 2:10pm
jaypeegee View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Location: Neo Tea Roa
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
Cheers guys
 
@CA:
The 60lb one is confusing
That is rated above my line (8 and 15 Kg equivalent) Can you explain that one please CA?
Not being snarky: Genuine interest.
 
As regarding the insta rust.Oooops. I guess ya gets what ya pay for. I do have a jar that used hooks get placed in apon return . Then sprayed with a quick blast of Innox.
Would that not assist. But if that initial chioce is flawed then I take your advice.
Mainly I was trying to get cheap and cheerful to start with as I lose so many lures and I am mainly just wanting these for test.
 
@Legacy: Cheers for the indicators. Its all going into my notebook (And head).
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2011 at 2:57pm
Capt Asparagus View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2002
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 13168
JPG, those light split rings, although rated at 60lb, will be nothing like that, honestly. Not only that, it is not an issue of the straight-line pull the rings have to handle, but also the twist and leverage exerted on a splitring by a fish once hooked up. I have had even quite small fish start to straighten far far heavier rings than those, a decent fish would straighten them in a heartbeat, I promise you.
A lot of poppers come with what one would consider to be perfectly adequate rings, but mate, the only way to be sure is to get decent split rings...
Bronzed hooks may last a fish or two, but pretty much always are way too light in construction to deal with saltwater fish. Really you want 4X strong hooks, bronzed hooks are more often 1x strong.
Just looked more closely at those trademe pics, and the hooks are too small and too light. The split rings, they guy says he has them up to 170lb. Get them.

Can you post up a pic of the lures you are making so we can get an idea of the size lures you are wanting to rig?
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2011 at 3:19pm
jaypeegee View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Location: Neo Tea Roa
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
Originally posted by Capt Asparagus Capt Asparagus wrote:

JPG, those light split rings, although rated at 60lb, will be nothing like that, honestly. Not only that, it is not an issue of the straight-line pull the rings have to handle, but also the twist and leverage exerted on a splitring by a fish once hooked up. I have had even quite small fish start to straighten far far heavier rings than those, a decent fish would straighten them in a heartbeat, I promise you.
A lot of poppers come with what one would consider to be perfectly adequate rings, but mate, the only way to be sure is to get decent split rings...
Bronzed hooks may last a fish or two, but pretty much always are way too light in construction to deal with saltwater fish. Really you want 4X strong hooks, bronzed hooks are more often 1x strong.
Just looked more closely at those trademe pics, and the hooks are too small and too light. The split rings, they guy says he has them up to 170lb. Get them.

Can you post up a pic of the lures you are making so we can get an idea of the size lures you are wanting to rig?
Hi Capt
 
Understood. I took your word at face value. Just wanted a clarification to better understand the why nots. You are generous in your sharing of your experience!!
 
Yep. I can post a pic. As long as you promise to laugh silently
I may wander down to see Mole at Hamills and see what he can sell me
 
 
 
 
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2011 at 11:35pm
ReelAppealLures View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1016
JPG "want to keep my costs down" that gave me a good giggle, but seriously the R&D stage of anything is the most expensive stage, you will throw away your money on what I call "Designer Firewood" for quite some time until you learn how lures work and hone your skills in both making and tuning...This is achieved over time so keep at it. 

If wanting to use trebles, the Mustad 4X range would probably be the cheapest hook you could use, the Owner STN66/76 range will be too expensive if I am reading your post correctly. 

Have you thought of using singles? There are a lot more cheaper HD live bait hooks out there than trebles...

Hook size in relation to lure size, now we all hope that as we scale the lure size up, the fish biting will also go up in size. So the larger hooks are needed for their strength, holding and hook set etc...

As you build more lures you will also need to take into account the hooks mass and position on the lure and how this will affect the lure's action, hooks help keep the centre of gravity below the centre of buoyancy of the lure also, this helps create righting moments as the lure body spills the waters forces pushing on it so it doesn't roll out. Your lures will have limits, you need to find it and ease it back a tad.

I use a minimum size 10 Owner split ring, remember a split ring should only really be opened the thickness of the wire, now look at the hook eye thickness...The lighter rings are damaged just by putting them on hooks let alone what angry fish do to them.

You also need to make sure your swivels and wire is up to the task, I learnt not to long ago the swivels I used in some stick baits were not up to the task and were broken easily by some GT's, this is a sad situation for both angler and fish. 500lb test is now my motto.









http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2011 at 10:49am
jaypeegee View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Location: Neo Tea Roa
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
RAL (and all else)
 
You will shudder when I show you my work.
It is clumsy, primitive and poorly executed.
I guess this is a result of having two left hands , Poor hand to eye coordination and no experience working in this realm.
Re Keeping costs down. I am using old broomsticks (complete with Bora) Old wood offcuts, file handles, Galvanised wire from bunnings, Hot glue, Putty, Spray Paint and my wifes old nail polish.
I Have used wire braid and polyethylene tubes with lolly wrappers
 
One thing I do have tho is a passion and a halfway intelligent mind.
I have been, as previously stated and am continuing to pore through online sites and videos trying to get an accelerated understanding of this process.
 
 
Appreciate the insight captured in this paragraph
 
Quote
As you build more lures you will also need to take into account the hooks mass and position on the lure and how this will affect the lure's action, hooks help keep the centre of gravity below the centre of buoyancy of the lure also, this helps create righting moments as the lure body spills the waters forces pushing on it so it doesn't roll out. Your lures will have limits, you need to find it and ease it back a tad.
 
 
 
 
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2011 at 1:31pm
laidbackdood View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4998
 got some trebs owner66  and gamakatsu 16 on trade me and they are bloody cheap....Might be a bit big for what you are making......owners are 5/0 and gammies are 4/0(but a big 4/0) might be 5/0 cant rememberConfused  would be good for bigger pops or sticks......just go on trade me under "laidbackdood"
             I prefer the gammies(better quality finish) and stronger i reckon but both are bloody good.I wouldnt use any other trebs.
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2011 at 1:57pm
jaypeegee View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Location: Neo Tea Roa
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
Still working on getting some pix posted.
I have been a little waylaid with painting the new renovations at home
I did find time late this morning to start a new shad bodied fella.
Funnily enough, The existing stickbaits I have made all seem very small all of a sudden compared to him.
Hands are aching after all the whittling...Must buy some power tools
Knife and sandpaper are slow and d a n g e r o u s
 
 
 
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cal25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2011 at 10:05am
cal25 View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1311
are trebles really neccessary?
 
Id always want to change them out on my stickbaits / poppers.....
Hard work beats talent, if talent doesnt work hard
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2011 at 12:09pm
jaypeegee View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Location: Neo Tea Roa
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
Originally posted by cal25 cal25 wrote:

are trebles really neccessary?
 
Id always want to change them out on my stickbaits / poppers.....
Good question
I understand the philosophical Catch and release based argument.
I will happily entertain that one after I better understand the impact on hydrodynamics and drag that a treble vs a Dble or single (or combination thereof) has on a lure.
 
I am interested in why you would always change them out Cal25? Especially if it isnt Catch and release based
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cal25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2011 at 12:20pm
cal25 View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1311
Id change them because you never know when you will catch a rat
 
or 2, when catching a stray KY on one...having trebles flaling around can be nasty....seen one go through my mates hand at Lottin...  Ouch
Hard work beats talent, if talent doesnt work hard
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote PoppinTonga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2011 at 4:45pm
PoppinTonga View Drop Down
Bronze
Bronze
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 2010
Location: Vava'u, Tonga
Status: Offline
Points: 75
I have purchased owner ST76 hooks on ebay from Plat Japan.  Best price I could find anywhere. 

 I have always used the biggest hooks I could get away with that did not pull my lure too far under the water.  Of course this is really only important with poppers.  It does really require having a range of sizes to experiment with on your lures.  For me, I find it easier when a lure at rest floats around 45 degrees down from the surface.  It does not require a huge pull to pop.  If the tail hook is too heavy, the lure may dive instead of pop.  This is mainly true with casting from a boat.  It is a whole different thing landbased  from even a slight elevation.   As RAL said, it takes time to figure out.  

As for catch and release, I do not use trebles on the tail.  I find that they tend to cut the fish up really bad in the belly region.  I am not familiar with Kingies, but most GTs I have caught take the front hook.  Also, I have had the front treble bent and still caught the fish on the stronger single on the tail.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ReelAppealLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2011 at 8:23pm
ReelAppealLures View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1016
JPG, buy a range of sizes in the cheaper brands... Mustad, Eagle Claw etc... You are not building offshore poppers yet so don't worry too much, once you get your head around what is happening with your lures and have finished articles then by all means get some quality hooks on them...

I personally use cheap hooks for testing lures... About 2g difference in weight from the Mustad to a Owner... and not as sharp!Wink

Whilst on the hook subject...Any one familiar with these http://redfishone.com/?page_id=28#

Redfish One tournament hooks...
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2011 at 10:28am
jaypeegee View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Location: Neo Tea Roa
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
Cheers RAL
Currently I am making the plugs, giving them a quick paint to seal em
Wiring and rigging them and seeing how they float, swim,sink,  etc
I have been experimenting with smaller scale objects and scaling them up
I have had some success with pencil type swimmers.
Trying larger sizes currently
Hence why the questions at the front.
 
I am developing an idea of the interplay between material mass/Buoyancy (Neg and Pos) how the pacement and size of belly hooks impact that, How the convexity of the front shape impacts the movement, How the mid rear underneathcurve creates a pivot for swimming action. Blah blah blah
 
I have been trying hardset single hooks in the belly position as a hard keel as well. Interesting. Not good whn the hook bluntens, But provides a good stabilizing influence when combined with an oversized rear treble.
 
I will create a couple of new unpainted blanks and post at some stage. Essentially just a sample of my more favoured (and likely to be made again) shapes and ask for some criticism/feedbak. But also to see what combinations you (or anyone) might choose to use if they were forced to use these lumpsofwood.
 
I wish I had some better tools and a better eye, But i am happy with what I am making (just not the time it takes necessarily)
 
 
 
 
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Millkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2011 at 10:34am
Millkman View Drop Down
Silver
Silver
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 261
Great post Jay, looking forward to seeing some of your pics!
Getdatfish
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 11:06am
jaypeegee View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Location: Neo Tea Roa
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
I see that RAL has suggested soaking the wood in Boiled linseed oil and Turps to help arrest the penetration of seawater and the subsequent risk of splitting.
I am on a shoestring budget , Prior to deciding I will pursue this seriously, could I repurpose some wood stain I used for a fence at home?
 
If I soak the lures in that (maybe diluted with turps) would that protect the wood in a similar fashion?
 
 
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jaypeegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2011 at 12:01pm
jaypeegee View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Location: Neo Tea Roa
Status: Offline
Points: 1503
That is a sample of what I am aboutto seal and ballast
That pencil is pretty much full length
The white one swims amazingly tho.
 
I got some Mustad Trebs from Pete Lamb on the weekend 2's or 3's, Cant rememebr now, But they seem to be the right size
Advice still sought tho...
 
Cheers
 
Also: These are going to be targeting KY now and maybe kingis next season
No big far cough exotic game fush just yet (Until I can learn to cast a few KM's that is)
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at a fart, but you have to be stupid not to."
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Falco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2011 at 12:04pm
Falco View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Location: Papamoa Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 3319
Cool they look good,rewarding catching them on your own made stuff,even if I have only gone 100% with a coutta from one outing..released it too..man Im sick.
as dead as dead is
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
Page  12>
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.469 seconds.

Most Thanked Forum Posts

3 Manukau Harbour & West Coa...
1 tauranga fishing
1 Manukau Harbour & West Coa...
1 Uncle
1 Crossing Cook Strait
1 tauranga fishing
1 Hutchwilco Boat Show
1 Hutchwilco Boat Show
1 Flounder on a rod and reel???
1 Smart battery chargers

Fishing Reports Visit Reports

Saltwater Fishing Reports
Tauranga Fishing Report - 28/05/26

Tarakihi on the bite Trips are few and far between at this time of year,... Read More >

28 May 2026
Freshwater Fishing Reports
Canterbury Fishing Report - 28/05/26

Fresh and salt turning it on! It is not very often I get to say... Read More >

28 May 2026
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Bay of Islands Fishing Report - 28/05/26

Lures paying dividends We finally had a break in the SE winds that have been... Read More >

28 May 2026
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Manukau/West Coast Fishing Report - 28/05/26

Snapper and gurnard in the harbour The weather has finally taken a turn for the... Read More >

28 May 2026
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Top of the South Fishing Report - 28/05/26

Snapper still in Tasman Bay Well, we are now at the end of May and... Read More >

28 May 2026
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Gisborne Fishing Report - 28/05/26

The bluefin are here The talk of the town is that the annual run of... Read More >

28 May 2026
Fishing bite times Fishing bite times

Major Bites

Minor Bites

Major Bites

Minor Bites

All information © 2026 The Fishing Website