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How safe are non-pontoon tinnys in open water?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How safe are non-pontoon tinnys in open water?
    Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 5:09pm
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I'm looking at a small boat around 12ft to blast up akaroa harbour to the heads for diving and fishing. I'll only be doing this in good weather but just want some thoughts on say a parker craft (withoutany leaks) or a fyran safety wise. I've been told by an inflatable salesmen they are very dangerous as they swamp but just wanted some thoughts on them if the weather does cut up. I'll be going around 5 nm from base at most.

If they are the deathtraps I've been told of I might look at an inflatable.

Cheers in advance.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ancient mariner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 5:27pm
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Not sure but wouldn't like to get back in one after a dive.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 5:59pm
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i used to dive out of a 12ftr, and it is indeed awkward coming in over the transom from the water.

my personal opinion is that they are safe if used in a sensible fashion, but they have a relatively small safety margin - which is unfortunate, because they are often purchased as a first boat for many and their lack of experience can lead to trouble.

i have also fished from a 10ft inflatable - my first boat - quite a high quality one which had a solid glassfibre v-hull and hypalon tubing. that was also good, but the white tubes (the boat was really intended as a tender to a large vessel) got dirty very easily. they are definitely not as durable as an alloy dinghy.

a good compromise may well be an alloy or plastic pontoon dinghy - theyre a bit heavier and tend to be a little more expensive, but all things considered, its likely to be money well spent. down your way, the 'warmth' of a plastic boat - Mac or Smartwave spring to mind - may well be a significant bonus.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 6:28pm
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Cool so the other option is a Mac 3.4 or a smartwave 3500, any ideas on how those will go over say a 5-10nm round trip with 2 divers?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Work_Smart_Not_Hard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 6:54pm
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I'm looking at the Mac 3.4 also mostly for Harbour and inner gulf use.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rick H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 7:03pm
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I have a Smartwave 3500 and I love it. It is stable as and a dry ride. When I (eventually) upgrade it for a bigger boat I would definately look at another Smartwave (the next size up is a ~4.5m).
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote nzfishwhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 9:08pm
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Hi Kj
me and a friend took my mates 12ft Fyran up north to Tapotupotu bay and pretty much fished in it under Cape Reinga lighthouse for a few days! Not to say it was rough when we went but it comes down to knowledge/Exp  and know what your limits are in a small boat.I have had alot of  boats and been boating for 30Yrs and started with alot of small boats and found you don't have to have a big boat to get out wide but KNOW your limits!
I have been in some quite narly weather which just comes out of know where but when you know what you can and can't do in a small boat 9 times out of 10 you will leave before it gets to bad!You say most of the times you will go weather will be good just stick to that for a while learn what the boat will do for you and go from there just remember being on the water with alot of common sense will help!
We also dived at spirits bay out of it and I've only dived a handfull of times but weather was good! setting up in the boat was a bit of a curse but when you get your boat you can set it up for diving have clips so you can blow up your BC and drop your gear over the side if you can gear up in the water and its great when you get back to the boat you just clip it back on take your belt and flips off put them in the boat get in then drag your BC/Bottle on board!The other thing is just the usual if going over the side with a mate just go the same time on each side!Also you can make your self a little ladder of some kind to drop over the back for when you return!Smile
A small pontoon would be great for what you are wanting to do but the price may be more so don't know what your budg is?
If you get a little 12ft Fyran or sim try and stay away from the rivet ones as at some stage it may leak if not leaking already?
Good luck with what ya get maybe save up a bit more and get the pontoon or maybe a 13'6 ali for a bit more room?
Cheers 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote snapazapa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2010 at 10:12pm
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what fishwisper said ,know your limits and know the area your going to be in,i got a frypan 4.4m and have done lots of long trips in it (80nm) in a day according to my gps,some in some narly conditions,any boat can get swamped,i came back through the motuihe channel (AK) a few weeks ago and sruck the worst ever conditions that i have been but the boat handled it well 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rusty360 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2010 at 8:21am
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ive got a smartwave 3500 and would rate it higher than a 12ft tinny. smartwave has just released a 4700 model which looks awsome. had a mac 360 but they are bloody wet .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Work_Smart_Not_Hard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2010 at 10:50am
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So how would a Smartwave 3500 stack up against a Mac 3.4?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SpearoMike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2010 at 2:47pm
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pontoon is the way to go, much more stable. The thing i have found is you get wet no matter what.  I had a 10foot pontoon with Alloy hull and you got wet no matter the speed (too small too) now have a 4.3 pontoon Alloy  and you still get wet. But its stable and i found i could fish as well as put on my dive gear without falling over the side. Same can't be said for the fyran style boats which are not the best when there is a bit of a swell around etc. Least with a pontoon they still float if it gets filled with water (which i have done) I personally would not stray away from pontoon unless it was a 6mtr sized boat. Just my opinion. Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JasonEdward62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2019 at 5:04pm
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We used to do - 2 on scuba from the Old Man's Parkercraft with a 9.8 Merc Blue band. Dunno how we did it but we did, without problem.

The 12 fters go great with one up and even better with a 15...25 would be diabolical. Bet you'd need to put someone in the b ow before you put the outboard on or youd be very close to swimming the transom...under...

Love the boats, light as but don't gun it into a stiff head wind one up or you'll be doing a backward somersault before you know it.

I reckon for a light as beamy boat that is so light it sails in any kind of wind, they were great handlers considering you can load them on your own - and that's upside down on a trailer no probs. Try and do that today in any 12 footer that can take 5 people in comfort. On a calm day.

I had a great run 3 or 4 years ago taking the 12 ft/15hp combo back across Rerewhakaaitu into a very stiff NWesterly on my own - nastiest sea I ever had her in but 1 up plenty of power and freeboard and well trimmed she hooned through those breaking waves with ease.

Can't be beaten for utility. But they were all we had and way better than the clinkers they replaced. Except in a really bad sea.

Believe it or not, at age about 12 I had a skier up - a very good skier mind you, of about 11 years old - behind Dad's with the 10 hp and had my 13 year old brother as observer. The outboard laboured hard revving up then labouring down as the skier speed up then took a corner...transom flexing in and out...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ofthesea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2019 at 10:28pm
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I'd suggest you boat to your dive spot and get onto the rocks in a sheltered spot to start and end your dive rather than from a tinny. Depends on what you want to use it for ie fishing as well? Inflatables aren't as good as a tinny for fishing.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Joker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2019 at 2:21pm
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There is a photo kicking around of an FC390 with a25hp motor totally filled with water and staying afloat upright.

In that size range it would have to be one of the most stable 12" non-pontoon tinny boats in the market and it has much more room and dryness.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 10:55pm
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Plenty of people use tinnys. But as a diver my advice is look into quality RIBS, will beat any tinny on the market for your usage.

Id go a glass bottom like a Gemini. Steep deadrise glass RIB made in SA at the cape and used their by mlitary and coastguard, some of the worst water in the world.

Disagree about durability of a RIB. If you avoid PVC which I think the person above was probably refering to, then yes they can need replacing, plus side PVC tubes are cheap but you would want to allow $2k off any PVC RIB if the tubes are 10yo +

Hypalon strength demonstration, try running over your aluminum dinghy upside down with a Chevy truck. Just demonstrates how tough Hypalon is.
https://youtu.be/rOVaMEnHUAI?t=108

However if you go hypalon or double bag sud(lancer, gemini etc) and you keep it covered you are looking at 40 years+, will outlast an FC or any other tinny imo if looked after.

Same with double bagged pontoons like Naiad and Wave break, their benefit is the outer bag protects the inner tube. Their hull is a full tinny boat in itself, plus the tubes.

A RIB or Alloy Pontoon will not just float, it will unlikely roll in a swamping. Most tinnies you cannot say that of including the fc390. It will give you something to hold onto though. But the selling point of RIBs and Pontoons is they do not roll due to much superior bouyancy. Some people at first thought this meant better stability, no, bouyancy is when swamped.

Driving a RIB with the valves open letting the air out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OSGzmRbtUg

Pick your days right and MOST boats are unlikely to swamp if you are a good skip.

What is your budget?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ofthesea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 4:14pm
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"Pick your days right and MOST boats are unlikely to swamp if you are a good skip."

- I would have to agree. Unless you're bloody unlucky who the hell sinks a boat
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 9:50pm
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I had a 3.6 Rigid Hull inflateable once. Awesome , very very stable little boat. Wouldn't like to come back aboard with tanks tho. And I had a bow rupture under the bow handle where the glue job was inferior. That would have been a sunk boat in the wrong conditions. Easy. So if you are buying second hand check your seams very closely. And for any sun damage.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 9:54pm
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And there was a thread on here not long ago with a guy who clearly knew what he was doing that had big problems with his smart wave Hull.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote offcut1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 8:00am
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I had a 4.7m Zodiac with hypalon tubes for 10 years or so. I’ve now got a Surtees. The Zodiac was much more stable, obviously, having tubes that contact the water at rest, and when under way. No body roll at all, even with 3 people on one side it just sat flat. Awesome for diving. You can climb back aboard anywhere on the boat. It could carry massive loads. However, hypalon is not bulletproof. I had a small hole from a dog fish spike, and a slightly bigger one from dropping a fillet knife on it. It is tough stuff, but you do need to be careful with it. You have to keep an eye on the pressure too. It goes up and down with temperature. If you pump it up hard on a cold day, it will burst on a hot day if you don’t let some air out. Unfortunately this happened to the guy I sold it to. I carried a roll of that foil/tar window flashing tape for emergency repairs on the water. That said, it had 3 air compartments and a sealed compartment under the floor, so it’s not sinking in a hurry. I’ve done 10miles in rough conditions with one pontoon flat-ish without any drama. If you want ultra safe and bulletproof I’d go an aluminium pontoon boat. Ie, external pontoons that contact the water at rest, not just internal buoyancy. But the trade off is a much harder ride than an internal buoyancy boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2019 at 8:49am
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The original question was - How safe are non-pontoon tinnies in open water?
 
Ive had 3 pontoon tinnies 4.2-4.6m, and now a non-pontoon fibreglass boat 5.3m.
 
I think I was safer in the pontoon tinnie, than the bigger fibreglass boat.
 
In a non-pontoon boat - if the boats swamped or capsizes or holed by something, it will presumably sink, so theres nothing to hold on to or sit on. With pontoons, the boat should have enough reserve buoyancy even with one punctured, to stay afloat.
 
However, I have made the change from pontoon to non pontoon fibreglass to get the softer ride; and Im glad I did. I don't worry about the possibility of sinking - I think that's extremely low; probably no higher than being killed on the road. I make the odds better, by taking - a full jacket life jacket that provides some insulation, a radio, cellphone, and most important, a locator beacon. I reckon the beacon would get a helicopter within 30 minutes (which I would probably survive)
 
And I don't go over any bar.
 
SO, in my opinion, a pontoon tinny is much safer than a non-pontoon boat (alloy or fibreglass)
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