Shared fisheries

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    Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 9:16am
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Hi all, as you can tell by the name 'fishwife' ,I'm a fisherman's wife but try not to hold that against me,lol. I have a question for recreational fisherman, what do you think of the shared fisheries proposal? I have a pretty good handle on the commercial side but I'm keen to know how recreationals feel about it. How do you think it will affect you? What is your view on how it could affect the commercial boys?
 
The only sentiments I have found so far from reccies is 'good job' and that we should ban inshore fishing altogether.
 
So what are your views?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Naki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 12:52pm
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President of the "Pontoon Owners Club".
I started off with nothing and now I still have most of it left!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish wife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2007 at 11:36am
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So noyone else has an opinion?
Well from a commercial point of view here is my opinion.
1. We have no problem with quota cuts on grounds of sustainability or stock building.
2. Government should not be able to remove a property right and must pay market price for any quota removed from commercial sector to add to recreational sector.
3.Charter boats should have to report their catch like anyone else who derives their income from catching fish.
4. Considering the govt is planning to 'take' quota from the commercial sector why is it now tendering its govt owned shares. Some of these fishstocks are for inshore species that are valued by recreational- surely govt should shelve it's own quota first rather than sell it only to take it off the new owner.
5. Closing areas of value to commercial fishing sounds great but what does govt plan to do for the displaced fishermen-put them on the dole I suppose.
6. Coming up with values for fishstocks is pretty hard I would of thought, yes the public greatly values being able to go out and catch a fish but I greatly value having food on the table and a roof over our heads.
7. Recreational and commercial fishermen should be working together (it has been done in the past and worked brilliantly) instead govt is creating a us and them situation.
Anyway thats my opinion, I really would like to hear from people not involved in the industry to see what others think.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote long john Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2007 at 2:48pm
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Um, O.K, here goes. I certainly don't have a good grip on what's going on here but that's not at all unusual in people submitting to government proposals on fisheries management so I'm undeterred.
Also please note that the reference to commercials does not mean the little man but rather the big corparations out there that pay his wages.
 
My opinion is that commercial fishers should be the last in line with regard to access to fish stocks. I have no doubt that commercial fishing is the scourge of the ocean, not because they're bad people but because they're big business and big business cares not a jot for the resource and a whole lot about money. I know this because they've shown me; over and over and over again.
Certainly overall take of fish should be capped and inevitably as our population grows, rec and customary take will only increase. This increase should be allowed for by a corresponding decrease in commercial take in that species, to the point where commercial take of that species is zero if that is neccessary. Only then should restrictions be placed on overall rec and cust. take. This could be achieved through further decreasing bag limits.
Of course compensation should be paid to quota owners IF quota is property (isn't that not strictly true?) and of course if the govt holds quota that should be the first surrendered.
As for the issue of employment for fishers after quota loss, they could use their compensation to re train or seek alternative income. If the fishers are not quota holders, that's too bad. There's no such things as a job for life these days. They can blame no-one but other comm fishermen for selling out to corporations and driving the price of quota out of their reach in the first place.
Placing fair market value on quota bought out would be difficult as the fishing corparations could easily ramp the values up in the months before a buy out.
 
This whole patronising "comms are our friends " line so beloved by comm. allies just gives me the ****s. I think most people see through it . Comms care for nothing but money. Trying to paint a comm. as just a good kiwi bloke trying to feed his family ( a view I think most NZers would sympathise with)  is farcical. The comm. wears a suit and works in an office. I do feel sorry for the fisher out there running the boat and risking his life and who is the good kiwi bloke just trying to feed his family.
Perhaps the govt could by out ( or cancel?)all quota and then lease back to these guys, making a rule that whoever holds the lease must work the boat, thereby keeping investors and speculaters out of their industry.
 
There you go. I'm sorry if you don't like my answers. Perhaps the corparations should've spent more money on good PR men and women. You should have them up about that.
Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish wife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2007 at 4:03pm
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Well you may be surprised to hear that I agree with a lot of what you posted. Please note at present quota is a property right which is bought sold and leased on the open market. A simple way of ascertaining a fair market price would be to take the average price over the last year to avoid the big boys upping the value.
Fishermen running their own boat are becoming a small part of the industry overall and these are the people I sympathise with. The big companies IE:Aotearoa and the likes are only interested in the return on investment for their shareholders.
I agree that access to fishstocks should be to rec and customary first with commercial coming third BUT removing property rights is not the way to do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2007 at 9:44pm
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Hello FishWife and welcome.

I spent 10 minutes typing stuff only to get disconnected and I'm too stuffed to remember what I said, which was probably just dribble anyways.
 
Personally, I think the QMS has been a good thing for the resource, it just needs a little tweaking here and there..... eg kahawai...
 
Rec fishers own the fishery as much as commercial guys do, which is why I have no problem at all with customary take, the rec fisheries rules are my customary take I guess and I get grumpy when that is tampered with just like you get grumpy when others mess with your livlihood - which of course is worse!
 
Show your dissatisfaction at election time. We are a very complacent lot us kiwis, the rec guys like me are all too happy to sit back and let groups like Option4 do all our dirty work.
 
One thing for sure though is the big boys wont suffer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish wife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2007 at 7:21am
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Thanks Smudge, the recreationals aren't the only complacent ones, too many small guys in the industry leave it up to the big boys and don't talk to anyone about what is going on.  I think this is half the reason when the public think 'commercial' they think of only the big boys and not the owner operator who has a mortgage etc same as everyone else. Generally I think the public know very little about the qms and how it works but noyone does anything about it. I had to explain to a guy the other day how qms works he thought it was a free for all and that the qms only tracked what was caught- no wonder he was so anti every boat with a number on the side.
I agree that everyone has a stake in fisheries my biggest gripe is giving quota away to one sector at the actual out of pocket expense of another, the big boys will survive but to the little guy who is mortgaged to the hilt to pay for his quota, taking that quota without compensation would be crippling. After all the govt created this system- pretty unfair to go and change the rules this far down the track.
I also think the media doesn't help the commercial pr side, for example last year there was a letter to the editor regarding a trawler fishing in an exclusion zone that raved on and on for most of a page followed by three weeks of follow up letters and articles against commercial fishing-
As it turned out the boat in question was a longline boat and they wern't even working at the time- the newspapers response was a tiny retraction so most people remained riled up about it till some lady wrote a letter to the editor showing the idiot who wrote the initial letter up as the idiot he is. Then it all calmed down again.
 
lol we have showed our disatisfaction at election time and still Labour are in power lol but my gripes about the labour govt go on and on and I won't bore you with them. My other fishing relating govt gripe is the kahawai allocation, I think there should be quota for it but only enough for bycatch not for targetting after all it is worth next to nothing on the market and prized by recreationals.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Naki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2007 at 9:47am
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Fishwife.
 
I was talking to a local comm fisho yesterday and he said that about 90% of all quota was owned by the "Big Boys" Sanfords, Sealord etc. Is this correct?
President of the "Pontoon Owners Club".
I started off with nothing and now I still have most of it left!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish wife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2007 at 1:14pm
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I don't have any accurate figures but I'd say 90% would be pretty accurate, Almost all the deepwater quota is held by big companies, and the inshore quota is getting that way too. Aotearoa have just had a spending spree in our area and are now the major quota owner here. The big boys have the money so noyone new can afford to get into the industry other than catching someone elses quota, therefore they set the prices etc but the little guy still carries the can so to speak.
Having said that there are a lot of owner operators out there but even though thee are lots of 'little' owner operator boats their catches are dwarfed by the big companies quota amounts.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote long john Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2007 at 2:55pm
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I am not quite following the reasoning behind quota being a property right. My understanding is that quota bought and sold is really a fixed percentage of the TACC, in the same way that a share is a fixed percentage of a companies worth. Should the minister of fisheries or whoever cut the TACC back to, say, zero, then you'd effectively own x% of nothing, in the same way that should a company go under it's share is valued at x% of nothing?
Would it be more accurate to say, for example, that you own x% of the TACC of say, gurnard than that you own 12 tonne of gurnard quota?
 
So is a fisher mortgaging the house or whatever to buy x quota the same as mortgaging the house to buy company shares? ie; do they deserve compensation if the fishery collapses(or the minister closes it before it does) or if the company they owned shares in goes under?
I dunno.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote archerfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2009 at 8:54pm
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finally a good forum on this subject with veiws from 2 sides,except from the corperate side as they are too busy making a dollar to care,im in sydney for personnal reasons only ,i love nz and cant wait to get back cos the sea is so polluted round here,i worked for sealord for a season as some may know and lived on the west coast were alot of my mates worked for (and shafted by)sanfords, i met a woman here in sydney a few weeks ago who was going to register her daughters with ngai tahu because her great grand father was of that decent because she believed they would financially benefit from their fisheries interests,the other half owner of sealord is the japanese who continue to illegally plunder the oceans of whales,i dont know about any of the new fishing rules over there but customry ,small commercials and rec fishermen will never be the main problem,
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote archerfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2009 at 8:56pm
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man! i just realised how old this thing is ,nothing has changed!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Busted! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2009 at 9:21pm
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Two comments, one charter fishing operator's do not 'catch fish'.  In fact there are no such beasts as 'charter fishers'.  Charter operators sell a service and an experience, and they do not own any of the fish taken on the vessel or landed as it's all caught under the rec limits, the charter boat takes passengers to spot a or spot b for a good day out and to possibly catch a feed or battle with sportfish if all goes to plan.  It's the same as a travel company taking a group overseas, when you get back you can 'land' or take an x amount of piss and fags through customs each.
 
It's utter BS getting charter operators to report their catch simply because for every charter boat taking x passengers there are 30 trailer boats and private launches and magazine boats capable of carting y passengers fishing for rec limits with no requirement to report anything.  What happens on a gamefishing charter, you get three strikes but don't land or tag one - nil return for the day.  Next five days you do dive charters, all nil return because the crays are all in berry.  All the while the rec boys and girls are taking full limits every day.  The potential limit catch for ALL the charter boats would be at most 5% of what is getting removed from the stock.  It's pointless statistical nonsense.  It would indicate how well a certain area is fishing at a certain time, and that is the info that no-one who operates a charter boat likes to let out!
 
Point two, it's commercial BS to go on about property rights on fish stocks.  The Crown owns all rights as they operate the Quota system.  As stated by someone else, if the stock gets clobbered by natural events, disease, overfishing or whatever the TACC is dropped to zero tons and the quota 'property rights' give commercial the 'right' to catch x amount of tons as a percentage of a 0% Total Allowable Commercial Catch.  There is still the right to catch it, but no right to land it for sale.  And, no right of redress against the quota owner.
 
The 'justification' for 'property rights' of quota are always the same, that the tonnage can be traded blah blah BUT the final point on it is that the quota only gives an operator the right to remove X amount of Y species of Z minimum size from the stock in area A and land it for commercial supply and sale.  There isn't any property right to anything in the ocean, only once it is on the hard.  If the comm. fisher doesn't catch the quota there isn't anyone offering compo, because they don't own anything until it's landed and 'in the system'.  This is why there are issues with high-grading, deeming, trucking, and bycatch declaration.
 
Anyone that tries to claim otherwise had better have a decent amount of moolah behind them because as seen in the Kahawai legal challenge this is all test-case stuff and it will go on all the way up until someone at the top of the chain puts the ball squarely back into the Governments court.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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