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Biodegradability of lures should be mandatory imo!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Biodegradability of lures should be mandatory imo!
    Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 11:01pm
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I was going to post this in the soft plastics forum, but realized its all lures. Metals not so much as they sink but do end up in a fish stomach or gob.

25% of our oceanic food now has traces of plastics. I dont think it should be allowed to produce lures that dont biodegrade. I know that includes some soft baits poppers, jigs, the works. But it needs to happen.

But you look at Gulp products, they are designed to break down. That is a responsible practice and should be mandatory for all lures. Werent stainless hooks banned? Anything that does not degrade quickly should not be in our ocean.

What can manufacturers do to produce tougher lures that do degrade quickly? What can we do about metal lures like slices etc so they degrade but still attract fish so effectively?

During my volunteer field work with the Mrs (double PHD) I see soooooo many plastic lures either in the water or on beaches that dont have access to being cleaned up (along with all plastic products). But most disturbing is finding dead sea bird carcasses with the stomach just chock full of plastic so no other food can enter. :-(

Its great countdown are moving to paper bags (just like the good old days) or bring your own bags, but how products like the meat section needs to change as well, its a start.

Im an optimist, I think we can turn the sea of plastics around, we have band nano beads and plastics which was a huge thing. Science and morality will turn it around. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HBtl4sHTqU

They use to think there were only 14 Albatross, but the believe there are now up to 21. 14 of these breed in NZ. And this is what non biodegradable plastic lures is doing to the worlds coolest birds who spend up to 85% of their life at sea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUM58LIU2Lo


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 12:09am
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Exactly on S/B,have mentioned it before.They might say Bio degradeable but no time frame is given,as you mentioned.Take a walk around the foreshore and see how many you find,how long have they been in the water. We fisherman are irresponsible in some ways,hooks,line etc all floating around,ghost nets that keep on killing.

I have read somewhere recently that this xmas there will be no rubbish barge at GT Barrier island or if there is you will to buy a tag. 
water water everywhere,how many fish does it hold?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 3:24am
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

Exactly on S/B,have mentioned it before.They might say Bio degradeable but no time frame is given,as you mentioned.

Everybody wants SBs that dont fall apart, but sadly thats the price you bay for degradable. 

Spot on, anything that is PLASTIC should say its biodegradibility and there should be a limit, say less than 5 years, which is heaps imo, but a lot of plastics can last 1mill so its a burning issue.

Im with you, I think as fisherman, if you want to use lures, use ones that arent pouring plastic into the ocean. 

Do we say enough is enough when 75% of marine life has plastic traces, or are we ok with carcinogens let alone what its doing to the fish, the birds, the whole eco system. Just so we can have a lure thats a little more durable??? 

Squid vicious work something awesome, how many years until they break down, and do those tentacles remain in the snaps guts? it should say on the packet. but the lure if amongst the baby snaps dont last long. Too bad, thats the price for using PLASTICs in the ocean.

If you want an alternative I heard bullet tuna or piper work pretty good?

The amount of mono left lying on rocks, cut off, or big kings with 100m of mono trailing in their mouths, thats all bad enough. 

Im not saying I have the answers or meaning this to be patronising , clearly this is not a fishing or lure only issue, but Im positive there must be a better way for us who directly put plastic in the ocean.

I think metal lures will be even harder to resolve. Magnesium lures? :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Snappa Geoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 5:29am
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Interesting Topic FF, Maybe in the near future more and more lure makers look at creating  better compounds that break down quicker. Or we could all revert back to Bait. lol. On line, braid getting bust offs snagging ,kontiki's getting stuck and breaking off, hard to avoid, but on a whole most of us respect our Oceans and bring our rubbish home from a day out fishing in NZ. We only have to look at our nearest neighbours in the Islands how bad the polution is. A recent trip to Fiji i went out from Sikatoa on a charter. Had to drive a few K's on a road next to Mangroves to get to boat. This was there dump where the manly plastics a metre thick went up and down with tide. Couldn't believe it yet so close to us. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Downtown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 6:06am
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First my bbq now my softbaits, bloody vegans £
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote MightyBoosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 6:21am
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I think the biggest threat to wildlife from lost/discarded fishing tackle is line, mono or braid. Who is going to buy biodegradable fishing line? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote kaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 7:14am
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There is NO true bio degradable soft bait on the market, Gulp states it is , BUT takes many years to break down
70% of the rubbish in ocean are fishing nets, these things are killing machines which carry on killing forever. Ban all nets

www.kavemantackle.co.nz
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (4) Likes(4)   Quote MightyBoosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 7:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote brmbrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 9:55am
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Originally posted by kaveman kaveman wrote:

There is NO true bio degradable soft bait on the market, Gulp states it is , BUT takes many years to break down
70% of the rubbish in ocean are fishing nets, these things are killing machines which carry on killing forever. Ban all nets


Also the issue of what is meant by "degradable".  Does it just split into lots of microplastic particles?  You can't see them, but they are still there. They don't just dissolve into sugary or protein filled water
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 10:23am
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Next time you have someone over for a fish dinner remember to say, tonight we are having fish plus plastic, served with home made oven fries and fresh garden salad.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 10:53am
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Regarding softbaits, probably like a lot of people have and do lose a lot of Gulps to being bitten off. Just forked out another $80 worth for spring sometimes they make a difference, but I don't like using them anymore. I used to be only Gulp but some of the quality of the lures was bad.

Tried ZMan naturally or eventually and now they are my preferred SB. Compared to Gulps my loss of lures has gone down hugely and only lose on the rare occasion of bust off or snags. Mostly they get retired though.

An obvious thing we probably all have had similar results with various none Gulp SBs.
I tried a Gulp left on my fence once, was there years all it did was shrivel up and harden.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 11:13am
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More interesting would be to put a Gulp in some collected seawater and leave it in there. Gulp are advertised as fully biodegradable on store sites.... does it say it on the packet anywhere if someone has a packet convenient?

Originally posted by Downtown Downtown wrote:

First my bbq now my softbaits, bloody vegans �£

Dont give up your BBQ, just harden up and stop worrying about sharks and jump in the water and shoot your fish instead of putting plastic in them :-). Probably quadruple your catch and the size of your fish.  Bloody lost gen millennial's wanting it all for free ;-p. 

Zmans Im pretty sure are just plastic.

At least with metal lures they sink and at worst case get hooked in a fish mouth on way down, which should rust out if the fish is big enough to survive with it.

I have seen softbaits in dead bird gut cavities though.

RE Fishing line, not funny about biodegradable line, if you arent changing yours every so often you are going to lose fish and snapped line as mono does become brittle. 

Yes nets are a MASSIVE issue for fish and mammals alike.

But really I wanted to stick to talking about softbaits.

Degradable, I meant biodegradable. "capable of being decomposed by bacteria or other living organisms and thereby avoiding pollution."

I think all softbaits should be made of biodegradable material.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 11:34am
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Not sure how seriously I take this article on this blog type site.

BUT, it states Gulp say 2 years in salt water vs certified biodegradable lures 8-12 weeks WHOAH, imagine if that was/is true.Mind you 2 years is better than some lures that could me 1 mil years for all we know. Let alone the toxins we are basically pouring in the ocean. 

https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/biodegradable-fishing-lures-mhg-plastics/

I know they have made shopping type plastic bags from 100% biodegradable material (the most stupid invention ever the plastic shopping bag)

These are fresh water lures but made from plant matter. The diagram kind of shows how they make plastics from plants etc.

https://bassanglermag.com/mhgs-biodegradable-fishing-lure/
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 11:59am
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If you are concerned about losing a few softbaits to the ocean, take a look at some of the footage from Hurricane Dorian....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 12:12pm
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Clifftastic its not about worrying about what other people do or what happens in the world. A few lures over 100mil fisherman = 300mil softbaits floating around either killing birds or leaking toxins (light estimate 100mil fisherman in the world)

Its about taking ownership for what WE put in the sea as guardians of our small patch of it.

Its too easy to just say "oh its too hard".

The hope is all materials will one day be biodegradable and hopefully home products compostable.

https://www.ecpcompostables.co.nz/pages/info
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 12:18pm
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

I know they have made shopping type plastic bags from 100% biodegradable material (the most stupid invention ever the plastic shopping bag)

I worked on a project recently which was a plastic product that was going to be used in the ocean, and effectively dumped there (it was non-recoverable after it had performed its task).  The customer was keen to find a plastic that would biodegrade and not end up polluting the ocean.  The first thing I looked at was the material that you describe, because I thought it would biodegrade in the ocean.  But it doesn't, and would end up floating around for years.  Turns out it will only "biodegrade" in very specific circumstances.  It has to be buried in basically a compost heap, and then it will degrade.  But the conditions it requires to degrade seemed quite unlikely to be met in most places plastic bags would end up in.  I did find a material that would break down in sea water over a relatively short time, but it was quite hard to find and not that widely used.  The project didn't go ahead so I never go to test the material.

So just because something is biodegradable, doesn't necessarily mean it will.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 1:00pm
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[ But the conditions it requires to degrade seemed quite unlikely to be met in most places plastic bags would end up in.  
[/QUOTE]

Are you saying ECP bags do not degrade in landfill or their other intended uses of their other bags? If so we can ask them for a statement on that.

What was the material you found that degraded? Why were they wanting to dump a plastic in the ocean if I can ask?

Ive seen biodegradable lures and they do break down in the ocean, but even more importantly they dont leak toxins when they do.

This is what Im not sure about Gulp for, fine, they degrade in saltwater but does that mean they are biodegradable, 2 different things. And if if they just degrade due to being water based, what are the other chemicals and are they toxins?

There is a big push for full biodegradable fishing lures but Im yet to see a scientific analysis on which ones work best or if at all. 

Bio baits is really what we are talking about (not to be confused with the company of the same name which produces a bio bait).
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 1:07pm
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If worried about plastic then use bait. A totally biodegradable and totally renewable resource. Organic ,free range ,plastic free.
 Catch it yourself and Left overs make great sashimi.
The new green fishing revolution--Bait.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote waynorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 1:17pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Tried ZMan naturally or eventually and now they are my preferred SB. Compared to Gulps my loss of lures has gone down hugely and only lose on the rare occasion of bust off or snags. Mostly they get retired though.

x2 I use Zmans exclusively, and it's rare to lose one, or have the tail chopped off, which would happen several times a day using Gulps. 

What would be interesting is finding out how the different brands react to the digestive juices in a fishes stomach, as opposed to just lying on the seabed after a bustoff.
treat fish like fish
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 1:48pm
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

If worried about plastic then use bait. A totally biodegradable and totally renewable resource.
The new green fishing revolution--Bait.


Cirrus I already went their mate :-). In all honesty I dont like using soft baits, I orefer targetting the big but not too big fish with bait and berley in winter around pinnacles, the other 3 seasons I get in the water and use my lure called a shaft shot from a roller speargun. Easily the fastest way to get all your family needs in the shortest amount of time. But I get people maybe afraid of water, sharks, or like the millenial and his BBQ getting wet ;-p. Also I get people use lures so there is less smell (kind of an oxymoron though, fishing and no smell).

BUT when I do seldom use soft baits now, I usually like tentacles, so squid vicious it is, they are the most effective soft bait imo, but they fall to pieces and Gulp are not cheap.

To me it seems if they make plastic biodegradeable bags from plant matter, Im wondering if there is a kelp that would be conducive to making a resin to make lures. I know some bio baits are made using corn to make resin. But as noted by Kevin in the post about the project, are we certain corn resin biodegrades in oceanic conditions?

So once we have a source for making the lures, they need to have fish oil infused, no problem there.

Now here is the clincher, Gulps cost too much money as the fall apart, thats why some of us use actual plastic lures. So the end product would have to be more affordable. 

Lets say we could make a marine plant based biodegradeable softbait infused with tasty tuna oil etc. 

What cost would we be willing to pay for them if like Squid Vicious they come apart by snapper piranahas (under size)?

To me they would have to be costed to compensate for the lures not holding together as well as plastic. Im sure 99% of people would rather do the right thing by our ocean and our fish and our birds and pay a bit more than full toxic plastics (maybe not bbq millenial vegan haters but hey, we are working on this generation lol ;-p)

Half the cost of a bag of pillies for a full fishing session would be fair imo.
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