Livebait tank pump issues...

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Livebait tank pump issues...
    Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 1:40pm
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Afternoon.

I have been having ongoing issues with my Rule 800 GPH livewell pumps over the last 3 years. Have been through about 5 in that time, at one stage I went through 3 in about 3 months! Apparently they admitted to having a "bad batch". Fortunately, the warranty has been honored up until now, but it has just gone again and may be out of the warranty time frame. The impeller shift has rusted and sheared off most times, and the motor of one or two just died. I wash them with freshwater after every use (squirt the hose up intake pipe).

Is anyone else having any issues with their Rule 800 GPH pumps?

Is anyone else using another brand of vertical 800 GPH livewell pumps without hiccups?

I use it once every week or two generally, sometimes a couple hours on end. Nothing like a commercial application....

I had the Rule 500 GPH pump on my last boat which had zero issues for about 4 or 5 years. Unfortunately that won't provide the flow I need on this boat.

Cheers

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rhumbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 3:18pm
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I had very similar issues. I switched to the Surflo pump. It runs both my deck wash and live bait tank. It is a bit noisy but 100 percent better than the rule.
My livie pump can run from 7am through to 5pm with no issues at all.
I miss killing things in NZ
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 4:22pm
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I’ve had a Attwood Tsunami on my boat for about 6 or 7 years without a problem.

What’s the intake flow like and is the pump under any extra pressure, rusting of the main shaft sounds like they may be crap pumps to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 5:16pm
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Cheers for the replies guys.

Rhumbo, that's interesting that you had similar experiences. What model pump are you using, and is it stocked in NZ? Is it Surflo or Shurflo? Sounds like a good unit.

Kandrew, sounds like you have had a very good run out of your pump! Is it the 800? It's a good price too. Livebaiting makes up a massive part of my fishing these days, not good when you can't trust the necessities... Rule have a great reputation and I used to love them, but something has changed...

Cheers

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 5:40pm
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Would never ever have another Rule pump,as you say the rust and shear off6 months max.,seaflo,bulge pump no rust no nothing,flick switch and it goes.

From memory might of $5 difference
Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 5:58pm
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Thanks Pcj.

Sounds like their standards have dropped completely... They aren't exactly cheap too. Their old ones were almost faultless, but nothing but trouble with the 800 for me!

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 6:03pm
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Kandrew, no extra pressure at all, and pressure is good when it's going...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 7:09pm
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I don’t use mine much nowadays into lure fishing, but went out flicked mine on and goes no problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 7:35pm
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I maybe able to help identify the issue.

Can you explain the set up of your pump/s.

As the post wont allow me to refer back to your original post.

Grunta something to sort out.

So I will have to ask a few questions to help.
Where is the pump,situated.
Is it force fed or based on self priming.
What items does it feed.
Where is the pump actually positioned in relation to the waterline at rest and underway.

That's a starter for me.

M
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 8:05pm
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Hi Mattoo

The single Rule vertical 800 gph livewell pump setup is strictly feeding the livebait tank.

The pump is situated on the back of the transom, below the waterline at rest, Port side, about 150mm away from the outboard pod.

It is self priming and is below the waterline at rest, but will pick up by itself at speed when turned off (pickup extends approx 10mm below hull and has slight angle to allow pick up). The pump would be about 100mm above waterline when on the plane, but is not turned on when doing so.

Fire away.

I have had this setup before without issue. If the stainless impeller shaft is corroding and the impeller is breaking off the shaft (as mentioned already that you can't see?), then it would appear to be the issue? Motor still running but obviously no flow as impeller shaft has sheared.

Cheers


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 8:36pm
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It really sounds like a manufacture/QC issue.
These pumps are supposed to work in a marine environment. Who goes to the trouble to flush their bilge pump with fresh water? Def not me. And I expect it to work. Yes - I check it from time to time - usually elec connections. Occaisionally seized - impellors freed and away it goes.
Having shafts rust and break is a manufacture problem - especially after a few months.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 8:45pm
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Hi Alan

All valid points. I got about 15-18 months out of this last one, almost thought I may have finally inherited a semi reliable one haha.

The guy on the phone asked me if I wash the pump by spraying water in the hose line, which I actually do now given the precious rusty shaft issue.... They really aren't fit for purpose are they. Its becoming clear that I need to cut my loss and try a different brand.

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 9:30pm
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I have replaced my broken bilge pumps maybe once every 5-10 yrs.
ie over some 30 yrs I may have replaced 2 or 3 bilge pumps. Because the pump finally failed - not because it was jammed up with braid/mono etc. ALL that stuff goes in the fish bin.
Maybe they have switched to a cheaper manufacturer - not an uncommon practise these days. Even for some world renown auto brands.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 9:50pm
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True, I actually only recall replacing one of my bilge pumps in about 15 years.

I am meticulous with cleaning my boat, any offcut of any sort of line goes straight into my fishing bag at the time of rigging, to prevent any possible object entering the Rule 3700 GPH bilge pump.

I put a stainless steel mesh strainer on the base of the livewell pump intake a couple years back to prevent debris entering the pump. Had a couple occasions (not recent pumps) where seaweed got in the pump and could hear the motor noise change, so had to jump overboard to clear it to prevent a tank full of precious liveys dying....

Something is not up to standard with the product, and I see now I'm not the only one who has experienced it.

Thanks guys
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rhumbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2022 at 11:08am
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Hi Johnny. It is the Shurflo bait sentry.
I miss killing things in NZ
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2022 at 12:31pm
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Cheers Rhumbo. Will see if the 800 is available in NZ
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2022 at 7:21pm
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I started off with a impeller bilge  pump sitting on a bracket  and made the intake under the bracket at 90 degs so when on the plane even with pump off the pressure would circulate in the live bait and supply the wash down.
Pic etc in old posts

An impeller pump is not self priming, it has to be under the surface...

I did the job reliably, but not really not much more effective as a wash down over a bucket of water.
 Smart marine or ,deals had a special in diapham pumps.. about 70lb reasonable flow.. About $120..from memory
Dont need much for a live bait and pressure is good for wash down
Diapram pumps are self priming
 So kept the bracket bottom of the transom and the 90 deg pick up.. relocated the pump to under the live bait which is under the bait board...

Only 'hassle/ maintenance is clean the prepump filter every few months of algae when parked up.. and thats a 2 min job...


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2022 at 5:40pm
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JW,
Sorry for my late reply.
I think you already understand the difference from the diaphragm and impeller forms of pumps.
So I don't need to go there to describe the issues.

I think you already nailed the problem when the company started replacing your item.
Actually I don think they've done you or others any good service but I'll leave that for now. No problem actually can't because that's the root problem.

I suspect it is the inferior materials in construction.
They have found another manufacturer and they have produced or used inferior grades of metals.
Just because the stamp says ss 316 or similar,the supplier of those metals will be the problem.
The corrosion is the fact that the material compound is low grade.
Hence you are getting high levels of corrosion in moving parts.
And to boot you may even have a lower quality of seal, o rings, and the list goes on.

So disappointing to here it's rule.

I have taken the approach myself to disassemble any brand. And replace seals and lubricate with a high quality purpose made grease.

The consumer in me that pays for a quality product puts it squarely back on the manufacturer via the supplier or retail outlet.
After two times.
They refund me all my money and supply me with the product they sold me with further costs for them with any replacements.

We all have to stand up and demand better products at the manufacturers expense until they sort out there problem.

Not much help I know, but you already figured the problem.
It's how you deal with it.
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2022 at 9:30pm
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Thanks for that Steps.

Honestly I haven't really considered the diaphragm pumps, as I feel the appearance would subtract from the "clean" setup of my boat ( I'm overly anal ). No good having a tidy setup that is unreliable though!

It will definitely be something to consider if I continue to have problems with another brand of livewell pumps...

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Johnny Watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2022 at 9:40pm
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Thanks Mattoo, your input is much appreciated.

The retailer I purchased the pump from has come to the party with a replacement yet again, so Rule will have one last chance. I'm not optimistic at all to be honest.

The retailer talked to the Rule representative, who advised that I may have an electrical leak in my boat. I asked why the Rule bilge pump about a foot away hadn't suffered the same fate? Who knows, maybe there is a minor issue, but surely the stainless shaft shouldn't be rusting then shearing in that time frame even if a slight issue did exist, which I don't think does. There are no signs of worsening electrolysis in the area.

I think the product is just no longer up to the task I rely on it for...I told him I would pay twice, even three times the price for something similar that would last.

Cheers
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