Kingfish - Matching reel, rod, line weight to fish

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    Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 9:09pm
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Hi everyone,

So this will sound like a total newb question, I have done quite a lot of fishing, but from being down south most of it is for blue cod etc so dont pay much consideration to rod weights etc. Have just bought a boat so am wanting to start chasing kingies and snapper more.
There are a few threads on here about this topic but not one that really explains it properly. It is a bit confusing still.
So...

My question is:

How do you pick a reel, rod, and line weight depending on target species?

For e.g, I am wanting something to chase smaller kings, but also big enough to handle a big king from the sounds and Durville island.
So what I have gathered so far is that you match the reel max drag to fish size. Is this fish on scale weight or how hard they can pull?

So let's say expecting a 15 kg kingfish, something with a 15kg max drag?

Then line: it seems like braid is basically 2x stronger than the mono equivalent. So for a 15kg max drag, 15lb would suffice? Or should I be matching the 15 kg drag reel with 30lb braid?

And then rod... from what I have read it seems like the max drag needs to be about 1/3 of the rod line weight?
So in this case look for a rod with line weight rating of 40-50kg?

Am I on the right page or page or way off?

I really want to get my head around this properly so I can buy myself some new setups and actually understand why.

Everytime I read something it goes out the window as the next guy loves going light and will say a 5kg max drag will be enough for a 12-15kg king.

I know there are a lot of variances, but just the basic principles. As in, reel max drag match fish weight on scales, braid match half the weight of max reel drag, and rod x3 reel max drag.

Any help much appreciated.
Thank you.
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Here's one way quick to work it out simply enough, as a general guide for metal jigs for both snapper and kings.
Water depth in metres x 2 = weight or lure in grams (100m = 200gm lure). Add more weight for current, drift, more kingfish orientated.
The rod works the lure i.e. the rod would then be rated say 100-250gm.
The reel compliments the rod in size and target species...snapper on 2000-3000 and kingfish more on a 3000-5000 sized overhead.
The drags of the reels will generally overpower the line weight, so it's more about line weight than drag capability of reels.
Terrain and size of fish determine the braid strength a lot, snapper and not too much foul ground 20lb braid and leader. Kingfish 40lb braid/50lb leader. But if foul ground go up in weight of braid and leader. Up to 37kg braid for kingfish say.
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A little more information is required. How do you plan to fish for kingfish? Livebait, mechanical jigging or topwater (or something else?). 

Also, what is the terrain like where you intend to fish? The reason I ask is that I catch quite a few kingfish when slow jigging for snapper with very light gear (2500 reel, 10lb braid etc). I didn't write this to brag about my fishing playing skills, rather that I usually fish over sand, so there is no drama. The fight is long, but I get there in the end. I'm not suggesting you target kingfish with ultralight gear, but if you're fishing in "clean" areas, you can use lighter tackle which is more enjoyable, especially if lure fishing. 
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For Kingfish, you need about half the target fishes weight in drag. 12-15kg will be heaps for anything except real trophy size monsters, and will result in the majority of rods looking like a horseshoe, or turning into a 2-piece model real fast if you're not careful. You would be surprised just how much pressure you can put on a fish with 6 or 7kg of drag.

The rod weight tends to be 2 to 3 times the drag that you plan to use. A "15kg" rod will be close to turning inside out with 5kg of drag over it, likewise you really want a 37kg/80lb/PE8 rated setup if you're gonna go running 15-odd kg of drag.

Personally, I reckon a high-end mid-weight setup is going to be nicer to fish with and better suited to 95% of fish you catch. I would have a good look at something like a Jig Star Ninja ML PE3-6 with a Saragosa 10000 on it, spool it with a thin 80lb braid and give it heaps.
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Cheers for your replies so far.

That's where it's interesting, as I have access to Canterbury kingfish, so generally on a sand bottom so heaps of time to fight, BUT the kings wouldn't be as big as the sounds. Can still get 10-15 kg fish though.
But I don't want to get something too heavy and end up skull dragging a smaller fish (maybe I just need 2 setups). Most fishing will be top water stickbaits and jigging.

So really if I was expecting to be catching 15kg fish MAX.
I could get away with a 7kg max drag reel?
A 20-30kg rated rod?
And with braid being thinner could fit it with 30lb braid?
Am I on the right track?
Would be good to get a combo that I could switch up between kingies and groper.
I have lighter setups for cod and snapper etc.
So once I know how to match it all I can sort a few different kits to suit my different needs.
Cheers
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Over the sand 7kg of drag is heaps. As long as there's nothing to break you off on, a fish isn't going to spool you with that much drag. We landed a smaller kingi last summer on 15lb braid, although that was over a mud bottom with no structure.
That said, if you want to fish 7kg of drag routinely, get a reel that's rated for at least 10kg or so. This allows for two things: manufacturers, erm, exaggerate the drag capability quite often, and that many reels at their max drag are at their mechanical limits, and it's not healthy for them to be fished day in, day out at those levels.

You almost certainly want a modern jig rod. These work nicely for light-duty Groper fishing too; not so good for the 32oz sinker 250m+ work though. As mentioned I would get something around that PE3-6 rated range, which is about the equivalent of a traditional 24kg rod. Then spool with at least 50lb braid. 30lb is a bit light if you want to put the brakes on a good fish, by the time you allow for knot strength etc. You also want at least a bit of abrasion resistance in case you get crossed lines. EDIT: A "50lb" setup, where the line probably breaks at more like 70lb+, will also give you a fighting chance if you go up to the Sounds/Durville, whereas 30lb will leave a lot of fish swimming around with new jewellery.
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Wetdreams for Durville you'll want a pe5/50lb braid set up as minimum, plenty of current up there and the fish can use that to their advantage and even a 15kg fish if hooked near the reef is hard to stop.  Get  yourself quality reel  with a nice smooth drag , not too heavy so you can jig all day, Trindad 16 etc about 500-600g with quality pe4 or 5 braid,  and like rozboon said a Jigstar ninja or similar quality rod in the pe 3-6 range rod, that would be a nice all round set up for Durville that will give you a good shot at landing a decent kingfish. You'll have line capacity for groper drops and can even go down in leader size and chuck a heavy slow jig for snapper/cod.
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Thanks for the reply Mason.
So the reasoning for the 50lb braid is so you can basically apply 25kg of force to stop the fish?
Because I am assuming a 15kg on scale fish could fight 20kg of force?
And the trindad has 11kg max drag so that would work well with the 40lb range rod? If you had 25 kg braid, would you be better off getting a reel with a higher drag, say closer to 20kg?

I just want to make sure I am getting the idea of matching it all so i know for future, rather than just going off recommendations. Actually understanding properly the reasons why.
Cheers mate appreciate it.
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Originally posted by wet_dreams wet_dreams wrote:

Cheers for your replies so far.

That's where it's interesting, as I have access to Canterbury kingfish, so generally on a sand bottom so heaps of time to fight, BUT the kings wouldn't be as big as the sounds. Can still get 10-15 kg fish though.
But I don't want to get something too heavy and end up skull dragging a smaller fish (maybe I just need 2 setups). Most fishing will be top water stickbaits and jigging.

So really if I was expecting to be catching 15kg fish MAX.
I could get away with a 7kg max drag reel?
A 20-30kg rated rod?
And with braid being thinner could fit it with 30lb braid?
Am I on the right track?
Would be good to get a combo that I could switch up between kingies and groper.
I have lighter setups for cod and snapper etc.
So once I know how to match it all I can sort a few different kits to suit my different needs.
Cheers


OK, so you're not going to get away with one rod for all of this Smile

A proper jigging rod isn't going to cast/retrieve stick baits very well and a topwater rod isn't ideal for jigging, plus it sounds like you will be fishing two different environments. Having said that, I carry one kingfish rod on my jetski (limited space) which more or less fits the profile you describe. It can cast a lure and work light jigs up to 180g. I'm pretty casual about targeting kingfish. Serious kingfish anglers would probably laugh at this outfit, but it does the job for inshore kingies and I enjoy using it. It will work for Canterbury from what you've described (I haven't fished there), but from the post above, you will need a heavier, dedicated outfit(s) for the Sounds (I haven't fished there either).

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Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

For Kingfish, you need about half the target fishes weight in drag. 12-15kg will be heaps for anything except real trophy size monsters, and will result in the majority of rods looking like a horseshoe, or turning into a 2-piece model real fast if you're not careful. You would be surprised just how much pressure you can put on a fish with 6 or 7kg of drag.

The rod weight tends to be 2 to 3 times the drag that you plan to use. A "15kg" rod will be close to turning inside out with 5kg of drag over it, likewise you really want a 37kg/80lb/PE8 rated setup if you're gonna go running 15-odd kg of drag.

Personally, I reckon a high-end mid-weight setup is going to be nicer to fish with and better suited to 95% of fish you catch. I would have a good look at something like a Jig Star Ninja ML PE3-6 with a Saragosa 10000 on it, spool it with a thin 80lb braid and give it heaps.


Thanks for the reply, that answer is very helpful in helping break it down to understand.
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Originally posted by wet_dreams wet_dreams wrote:

Thanks for the reply Mason.
So the reasoning for the 50lb braid is so you can basically apply 25kg of force to stop the fish?
Because I am assuming a 15kg on scale fish could fight 20kg of force?
And the trindad has 11kg max drag so that would work well with the 40lb range rod? If you had 25 kg braid, would you be better off getting a reel with a higher drag, say closer to 20kg?

I just want to make sure I am getting the idea of matching it all so i know for future, rather than just going off recommendations. Actually understanding properly the reasons why.
Cheers mate appreciate it.

one or two points on top of the excellent advice you've received. It's important to note that:

1. a braid that's labelled as 50lb will typically break at well above that - maybe at 80lb of true force. So don't try to equate the braid 'breaking strain' with force being applied.

2. If you set a reel to 20kg of drag (and there aren't many with that capability) and connected with a monster you'd probably get pulled overboard! A guy in the shop where i bought my old school TLD overhead reel for livebait fishing set the strike drag to 9kg, and that's a lot more than you think when something is pulling on the end. He had just spooled some strong mono (Momoi) on the reel and (admittedly I'm no Arnold S) but at 9kg I was falling forward off balance well before any line came off the reel.

3. Rozboon above made the great point that cranking a reel with "max drag" of 7kg specification to full drag would probably over-stress other parts of the reel (Japan-sourced reels usually say "max drag" and a significantly lower "practical drag" on the box, the latter for a good reason).

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Originally posted by The Tamure Kid The Tamure Kid wrote:

Originally posted by wet_dreams wet_dreams wrote:

Thanks for the reply Mason.
So the reasoning for the 50lb braid is so you can basically apply 25kg of force to stop the fish?
Because I am assuming a 15kg on scale fish could fight 20kg of force?
And the trindad has 11kg max drag so that would work well with the 40lb range rod? If you had 25 kg braid, would you be better off getting a reel with a higher drag, say closer to 20kg?

I just want to make sure I am getting the idea of matching it all so i know for future, rather than just going off recommendations. Actually understanding properly the reasons why.
Cheers mate appreciate it.

one or two points on top of the excellent advice you've received. It's important to note that:
1. a braid that's labelled as 50lb will typically break at well above that - maybe at 80lb of true force. So don't try to equate the braid 'breaking strain' with force being applied.
2. If you set a spin reel to 20kg of drag (and there aren't many with that capability), you'd probably get pulled overboard. A guy in the shop where i bought my overhead reel for livebait fishing set the strike drag to 9kg, and that's a lot more than you think when you try to pull line.
3. Rozboon above made the great point that cranking a reel with "max drag" of 7kg to full drag would probably over-stress other parts of the reel (Japan-sourced reels usually say "max drag" and "practical drag" on them, the latter for a good reason).

Great advice. 20 kg's would see me over the sio\de in a flash
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Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Great advice. 20 kg's would see me over the sio\de in a flash


Equally, it would probably give us a really good look at the cross section of our rod, just above the foregrip most likely Ouch
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Okay thanks good tip.
So now i see that the reason for getting a reel with a higher drag say 15kg, is not to go up to that max drag, but means it will not put as much stress on the reel if you did crank to 7 or 8 kg.

As for line breaking strain, that has made it a little confusing again as to how to match the line.
So really going off that principle, if you are expecting 20lb fish. Then you could get away with a 15lb braid setup as that may not break until 20-25lb?

Cheers
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I think that's too simplistic - you are not standing there dangling a 20lb fish out of the water.

The fish is supported in the water, so the weight on the line isn't the true weight; but the fish is swimming away and therefore exerting force.

And as has been pointed out, worrying about the pound breaking strain gets confusing because of the manufacturers' claims versus the reality under mechanical tests. 

As others have said, go with the "PE" line rating recommended for medium to heavy kingie fishing and match that with the rod. The experts above recommend PE5 at least, which roughly equates to 50lb, depending on the manufacturer. 

Again, that's not because you are going to hoist a 49lb fish on the end of the rod into the boat - it's because of a whole range of factors. Others such as Rozboon and Mason have done the hard yards with kingies, so it's worth listening to them and not over-analysing.

Once you have PE 5-6 set in stone, you'll then have clarity over the rod and the reel for your set up. 
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Once you have PE 5-6 set in stone, you'll then have clarity over the rod and the reel for your set up. 


A PE5 rod reel and line is as light as you’d want to go if you are targeting 15kg kingfish .
Once you’ve got some experience then you can try silly string outfits and maybe also look at a heavier outfit (PE8 ) for the bigger fish .
But pe 5 is a really enjoyable and capable weight to fish .
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Wetdreams, great advice from TTK / Rozboon / Boosh,  you'll often get smoked with 15lb braid, it can be done of course, but you'll need a bit of luck on a good fish , like it heading to deep water with no structure to bust you off on where you can play it out. On a big boy/girl you'll have next to no chance. Zero if they head to the reef.   Its not a great feeling when you lose a fish and know its got a 300g jig to tow around, so you need to give them a bit of respect with what you turn up with when targeting them.
 I personally use Jigging master rods and reels (PE3 and PE5 models) and PE5-PE8 braid with 80-100lb fluro leader ( no less for jigging), my own rigs on heavy assist cord, I've still been smoked by  good fish. But I've also been able to stop a fair few that had the heat on me, and I'm not a large human at 63kg.  Max drag setting I can deal with are about 12kg off the reel and that feels like its touch and go weather I'm going for a swim sometimes!  The JM reels supposedly can dish out 30kg or so but in the real world thats never going to be something you'd use. I usually set it so that I can just pull the leader off the reel by hand. a Nice smooth 8-9kg of drag will be all you need most of the time and its nice to have some more stopping power on hand with the flick of the lever if necessary. 
Its great fun though,  learn a PR or FG knot and test them hard - you are only as good as your knot!  no point having the best gear if your knot sucks.
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And great advice from legacy too
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PE is a simply a measurement of the diameter of a thread.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I've got the basics.
I think I have figured a kit I will get.

The question was more aimed at if there was some sort of formula to work out how to match a setup together for species, not just kingfish. As I'm sure there will be other guys out there looking for similar information chasing bigger fish etc.

Some great info has come through.

Thanks
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