Honda bf 225

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Titanium
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RG what is your WoT speed?

 BH what are your calculations to get that?
 Does take into account a well setup efficient petrol internal combustion engine at best will work around 80% efficiency of the stored potential of the fuel used?
 Then around another 10% in the drive train
 And that most modern outboards product between 5 and 10% more than advertised hp in the midway point in the WoT specs So at the crank there would be around the 260/ 275 + hp plus ad the efficiency factor.. looking over 300hp worth of fuel.
 And regular unleaded petrol is approx 11hp/hr per L

And just because a engine (or at prop) is rated at say 255hp, it only develops the hp to move the boat/ weight at the speed one wishes to travel at... hence why faster you go the more fuel per hr one uses.
Funny thing, with a plaining hull thu, the faster you go, the less hull in the water and the hull friction co efficient drops.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 8:08pm
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the easy method is to take a average of 0.5lb per hour per hp - convert that metric kilograms and then convert that to volume of fuel.

so the calc is as follows:

225 prop hp is say 235 flywheel.

235hp x 0.5lb = 117.5lb of fuel per hour;

117.5lb / 2.2 = 53kg of fuel per hour;

53kg/0.75kg (standard weight of finished petrol per litre)

= 71l per hour

you can get a whole lot more complicated by working out the energy content by weight (btu or bsfc) - and there is some variation on the specific effiency of various engines ( but generally they fall around 33% - Formula1 engine slightly higher)

but the broad averages bring you back to 0.5lb/hour/hp for gasoline and 0.4lb/hour/hp for diesel

the calc for my boat is;

320hp (flywheel - 300prop) x 0.5lb = 160lb/h;

160lb/2.2 = 73kg;

73kg/0.75kg = 97l/h burn rate - and bugger me - the yamaha instruments come in at 98l/h at wot

No disintegrations!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 8:37am
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That extra litre is probably the motor injecting additional fuel to cool the cylinders. 
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Titanium
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you can get a whole lot more complicated by working out the energy content by weight (btu or bsfc)

 Thats why I asked...

but the broad averages bring you back to 0.4lb/hour/hp for gasoline

160lb/2.2 = 73kg;
73kg/0.75kg = 97l/h burn rate


The 0.75 is the SG factor?

Fuel has a SG around the 0.73 /0.74

 And there is OWT 's extra liter Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote gibby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 1:06pm
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I have recently brought a 225hp honda and basically I'm far from impressed. I'm getting 15.8Lph at 7kn with a 17r prop on a 6.3m challenger. Top speed 38kn. I got better fuel economy out of my old 150hp mercury optimax 2005 with a 15p prop as I have been told the 15p is for boats that are under powered and I got the same top speed. Know two other people same engine getting 7kn to 7Lph could someone shine some light on this for me. Dry the boat is 2T same weight as the other two guys boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Moots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 2:58pm
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Yeah, my prop is a solas 14 1/4 x 17 and have a similar size and weighted Buccaneer billfisher and am getting 7kn to 7l. Pretty much similar Lph to kn - i.e. 24kn is 24 lph. Top speed 40+ as I start shipping my pants when I start going that fast
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Black Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 3:33pm
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Yeah, that doesn't sound right. What RPM is the engine doing at 7 and 38 knots?
With a 300hp on 735 Billfisher - I am getting 7.5knots at 1,800 rpm for 10 litres per hour. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote riga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 4:30pm
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Agree that doesn't sound right.

I have a BF250 on a Lazercraft 743 and get 7.5 to 8 knots for 7.5 to 8 LPH.  Will have to check my prop later on.  But I hit full revs and 42 knots at WOT.

Only thing I can think of is your o2 sensor has gone, when that has happened on my boat the fuel burn increases dramatically.  Although every time you start up you should get an alarm on the gauges if that is happening (do you have the Garmin gauges?)

How old is the motor and how many hours etc.?
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So it's doing 7.1kn at 2600rpm an it's brand new like this is all happening on the 1st few trips. The dealer is a absolute tugger typical sales person got your money now go away don't want to hear about your problems. And I'm stuck with in my mind a very expensive peace of s@$t. Has anyone got one of these engines without a honda prop ??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 8:43pm
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Gibby, something is definitely amiss, I'm still getting great economy out of my motor, the boat is more a 6.8m Viscount.
Although, if you are dragging your arse and not planing at that 7kn, noise pointing up, you are in the most uneconomical state of any boat, . Get it up to about 3500 rpm and planing, and you should be getting about .5l per km.
Alternatively, drop your speed a couple of knots and see what the economy is.
I tried a few other props and couldn't improve on the Honda one (Solas).
I could probably go up 4 inches, and make it fly, but I don't see the point.
Last weekend we were out for a cruise with 8pob, still getting around. 5l per km

you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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I have a 7.2m challenger with a 225 Honda on it. I get 40kn in absolutely perfect conditions. 38kn in most other conditions. I'm not convinced I have the right prop. I suspect it has too much slip at most RPM's, but need to actually record them and check. I also think I'm a bit under powered. Solas 15,1/4"by 17.

I did have to drop the motor to the bottom hole as it was ventilating badly at anything more than slightly negative trim. I picked up 2-3kn doing that. Check your engine height, as a start.

Your 6.3m Challenger should be doing better.


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I'll try up load some photos for you to look at now I know you can do that but yea I'm scratching my head. I do have a jacking plate that lifts my motor up and down if I'm shallow. Have played with this a little to try better my fuel economy but not making to much difference. I'll keep trying and keep you updated.
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Hi Gibby - if you're running at 2,600rpm for 7knots it would indicate to me that your propeller pitch (17) is to low.  I would try a 19.

I suggest running a WOT speed test - record and record the engine rpm to check against the engine specifications. You might find it revving over the what is recommended. 
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This is the prop I am running here.  Only a 16 degree pitch but large diameter and large blade size, only just fits inside the cavitation plate (was fitted by Honda when they took the boat for fuel testing).  

Its better than the original prop fitted from install.


Fuel burn figures from yesterday.  2 adults, 3 kids, a kayak, 2 chilly bins and fishing rods.  Pretty happy from a 7.4m Hardtop.

28.6 knots for 30 liters per hour.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kimber7wsm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2022 at 6:02am
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I would recommend getting rpm and speed in 500rpm increments and letting Steps have a look at slip etc before changing to 19"pitch. It's very possible your diameter is miles out. Changing pitch without sorting diameter, won't give the best solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2022 at 7:26am
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personally I would go back to dealer and ask them to sort if new
"Times up"
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Do it the way it is meant to be done professionally.
 And MUST be done in this order
1/ correct engine height
2/ have a current prop that is withing the manufactures WoT max rpm range.
3/ Take ACCURATE rpm/speed data from around 3000 rpms to WoT in approx 500 rpm increments
3/ Calculate out the slip (prop diameter/number blades) for that weight Hull if not correct
4/ Once slip sorted  THEN sort the pitch.

When one has done so many times one collects a data base so the slip and pitch can very often be done at the same time from experiance.

Or there is the 'normal method'  try this prop, try that prop get it in the middle of the max rpm range...and usually the slip and pitch are wrong for best performance and economy.
 From memory the how to data needed is on the previous page of this thread.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 7:00pm
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I still think given the started figure of fuel burn at 7 knots (13kmh), that a 6m hull is exceeding it's hull speed of 11kmh, therefore starting to climb on the plane, the worst fuel burn speed a boat can do unless flat out.
You have to be 8.3m to achieve a hull speed of 7 knots,
Plus each boat is different in how it goes with this transition. Shorter boats with a heavy bum, will be especially bad in this transition stage.
If the slightly slower fuel burn figure is good, and the cruise speed figures are reasonable, then there isn't really a problem.
If you want to troll at 7 knots, efficiently, you will need a longer boat
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Its not not rocket science. A planning hull will burn more at low speeds due to the wetted surface,not designed for low speeds unlike a displacement hull.Yes a displacement hull will plane with more HP and a bigger fuel burn.

If the main problem is your fuel burn compared to simular vessels/motor and your is not meeting expectation . what and where is simular gear stored or motor hieght v others and prop. 
once again if a new install by a dealer why dick around,take it back and get it sorted.


"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2022 at 9:07pm
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The last time I saw someone put a 280kg motor on 6m boat with a of type out board bracket, it was a disaster at low speed, it dragged it's arse and needed lots of throttle to pop up on the plane. He added boyancy and effectively extended the hull to over 6.5. And it transformed the boat. I had done the same to mine. Added 800mm and made it a 6.8m boat with plenty of boyancy and Hill length right under the motor.
That motor is too heavy for A 6.3m boat with a pod at slow speeds and so it will perform poorly at transition speeds.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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