Anchor Winch

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    Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 10:51am
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Hi All,

I am looking at installing an anchor winch on a 6M Fyran. I see the anchor well has holes drilled through the top and there appears to be plenty of room for it below.

Have done without a winch for years so not familar with products or exactly whats required.

i am guessing its not going to be cheap... aside from the winch itself there will be some heavy cables to run back to battery , a relay and some sort of fuse/cutout and a dash switch.

Will I be able to keep existing chain and warp ? 

Any recommndations /  tips appreciated

I am located in Wellington


Thanks,
Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 2:20pm
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Titanium
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I'm no expert on winches, but I have a drum winch on my boat and that uses a much thinner warp than a standard anchor that you would drop by hand, keeps the drum size down.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 2:46pm
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You have 3 options

Capstan

Cheapest option, you can use your current fairlead, anchor and rope. You will pay around $1000 to $1500 and quite easily fitted. Downside is you still have to go up front through the hatch to bring the anchor in. I have one on my 6.0 scorpion and it works great.

Windlass

More expensive around $3000 you will probably need to replace your anchor rope chain and fairlead and if you don’t have enough depth in your anchor well so the rope drops in a nice pile you will get heaps of tangles. But you don’t have to go forward it can be operated from the helm.

Drum winch

Can be even more expensive $4500 and you will need the whole setup rope anchor fairlead and enough room in your anchor well for the drum to fit. Good option for a fiz boat and can be operated from the helm as well.

Hope this helps

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 3:33pm
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I just replaced my capstan about $930.. older post..
 Very simple install.. make sure you run recommended grade wires, If need to run new count on another $50+ We anchor up out at 50/65 meter marks.
Brings up the anchor way faster than can pull by hand...
We access thru front hatch, sit on side of hatch opening and the 'floor' pressure switch mounted so pressed by my knee.
'Account' gave me a budget for a winch. Several things decided not to go that way.
Capstain easy, no jambs.. damn near every boat have been on , except commercial, end up with a jamb, or throw a overload, or some issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 4:55pm
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Ive got a drum winch, on a 5.3m Figlass. Its a Viper Pro Rapid 1000w. 
Cost 3 years ago, $2700 for the winch incl 100m rope /chain and overload circuit breaker, switch and cabling. , plus $1000 for professional fitting. 
Its been good - I would get it again. 
THe winch has worked perfectly. So far, the circuit breaker hasnt tripped - I expect it would if the rope jammed on something.
One thing should be aware of - the rope tends to naturally want to go near the middle of the drum; which bunches up around the centre, so the total capacity is reduced. It holds 100m ok, could have possibly 25m more.
It doesnt have freefall - but the speed of the winch is high enough that freefall would not be warranted. 
And the anchor needs to be weighted towards the front (head), so that it will fall automatically under its own weight. Mine is a Manson Supreme, which works well.
Its the best thing since the wheel was invented!!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 6:17pm
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I have been suspicious of free fall...
I dont know just how fre fall is on a winch, but simply drop an anchor free fall is the bigest cause of it not holding. Then ppl start spending more money on chain , bigger anchor and problem doesnt go away.
If a anchor free falls often the chain will drop below the anchor (less resistance) Then when hits the sea bead the chain wraps around the anchor and doesnt grip, lay correctly.
 I have a std  4kg danford3m 6mm chain (all short link) 3m 8mm then another 2m 6mm. And hold fine even full current near the manukau heads
 If wonder why 6mm each end... well the  front deck hatch doesnt close over the 8mm..nothing to do with anchor holding.Wink ... and that was what was laying around at the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote funandfunction Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 6:21pm
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Those drum winches sound good but I have no experience  of them.

A few years ago I installed a Maxwell windlass of the flush type ( horizontal gypsy) on my bro-in-laws 6m Fyran.
Those boats have a good flange all around the anchor well opening in the foredeck, so it was easy to make a 5mm alloy plate  and bolt it down to that flange with lots of c/sunk bolts at maybe 50mm centres.. Maxwell supply a template for the winch cut-out  remembering to offset the winch to one side of the centre-line to keep the rode lined up with the bow fairlead.
There's a lot of bending stress on that plate , so I beefed it up with a few flat bar stringers on the underside.
Like others have said,  you need to do away with your 3 strand warp and replace it with the braided warp that's very soft  and tends to fall better and take up less volume. Also the connection to the chain needs to be spliced to go though the gypsy.
I put a hatch inside the cabin on the vertical bow bulkhead....this is important to get access to the winch cable connections and also to clear the warp if anything goes wrong. I question if those winches are truly automatic  since Maxwell warn not to drive around with the anchor hanging on the winch....they say go forward and secure the anchor and take the load off the winch.
In which case you could just use the capstan type in the first place.

There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kimber7wsm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 7:06am
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If using a windlass, make sure the anchor well has enough depth. From the post above it sounds like the Fyran does. Otherwise the rode piles up under the windless and then jams, for want of a better description.

The cause for drum winches bunching the rode in the middle, is incorrect set up.
To insure it self levels all the way across the drum you must have no more than 18° angle between the bow roller and the drum side to side.

So for a 300mm wide drum you need the bow roller to be 947mm minimum away from the drum.

Check the rate of fall on which ever style you get. The power out at 30m minute type are painful, and almost impossible to anchor accurately like you need to on a Terakihi spot for example. The freefall ones are good if you know how to use them, but no different in principle to the capstan system where people just chuck it over the side. You need to lay them out like Steps has mentioned. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote oldtincan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 9:14am
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Thanks for all the replies - helps to clarify options. I am leaning towrds the capstan to me it simpler , cheaper and I am OK with go forward to raise anchor. Also i have a good length of chain and the warp is in good condition so seems a shane to have to replace it. 

Cheers Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 9:22am
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The freefall ones are good if you know how to use them, but no different in principle to the capstan system where people just chuck it over the side. You need to lay them out like Steps has mentioned.

 I only know about just dropping over the bow, nothing about winch free fall.....its good to know it can also apply

Otherwise the rode piles up under the windless and then jams, for want of a better description.

The cause for drum winches bunching the rode in the middle, is incorrect set up.
To insure it self levels all the way across the drum you must have no more than 18° angle between the bow roller and the drum side to side.

I again dont know if this applies to an anchor winch.. does to damn near every other winch...
Yes they need to be as squared and centered as near possible to the load.
The 1st time you wind on a winch, load it up and then feed on, feeding it correctly onto the drum. After that it will always feed on even, like the wire/ rope/ braid gets a memory.
My boat winch, anchor the trailer, I feed out hitch side, hook a car onto it, a slop of hand brake just on, then wind feed back on.

Does this also work on anchor winches?
Anyone actually done this with anchor winch?

Edit: if going to 'reset' your trailer winch, pull 'rope' out and make sure all or any twists are removed 1st.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 9:36am
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I am leaning towrds the capstan to me it simpler , cheaper and I am OK with go forward to raise anchor.

Position the capstan and pressure switch very carefully so can also fold drop warp easy below.
 Then is the question of the chain going around... Way back I asked the Maxwell ppl reply was  " depends if want to srcatch the capstan chrome or not"  So I have been doing so for many yrs.
 I do 4 around on the warp, then when chain just goes around reduce to 1 or 2 turns... Cant rem which.
Some ppl dont have the pressure switch, or have a by pass on/off switch.
I have thought about for yrs, still havnt a on/off. Im ok to use on/off myself but last thing need, be on off or not, is someone distracted for a second and have a finger go round several times.. sorta ruins the day out.
Advantage is (espec in a west coast/swell chop) its hard to keep constant load on the capstan. As the sell comes thru, sitting on the hatch side, knee on pressure switch, one leans with the swell, knee off switch , then back on.

From memory min cable size is 16 sq mm (???).

Self install is very easy, hardest is pulling the wiring thru cavities

Hope this is of some help.


 Edit:I have also swapped my bollard out for a split bollard the chain simply drops down into and a sprit pin holds it there.
 Also the anchor bow spirit thingy, has a spring loaded pin to hold the anchor down...So anchor is always secure in place, be chop swell bar crossings.. just watch your head when boat is on trailer and step between car and trailer.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote oldtincan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 10:01am
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Yep very helpful thanks I think the positioning of the pressure switch will be the tricky bit ...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kimber7wsm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 7:39am
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The big thing that stuffs up the advise I gave above is, someone puts a roller in the middle. That changes the angles  and stuffs up self leveling.

Unfortunately most people who set up boats don't know how simple it is to work out correct set up, so it never gets done.

The theory I gave above is used on winches for all sorts of applications and works every time.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 11:03am
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The big thing that stuffs up the advise I gave above is, someone puts a roller in the middle.

 Could you explain that bit more please?

I think the positioning of the pressure switch will be the tricky bit ...
"Its about working hard to be lazy"
Before setting anything (switch capstan etc.. even the bollard) up, decide the most comfortable position for YOU..which will include if you are left or right handed.
I just sat on the edge of the hatch, put the capstan towards the right side. , then found that my right knee was in a position to press a switch, if mounted on a bit of wood, vertically down from the opposite side of the hatch opening.
 All my rod holders, seats, cup holders, motor controls, bait board, knife holders on the side of the bait board,  etc have also been positioned like that.

What must get around to is a bit of padding where I sit on the side of the hatch....on the other hand the new capstan pulls up from 40m in about a minute, well very fast, now so sit far shorter period...still on to do listWink

In pic below I removed the original , factory stupid bow spit and made my own out of channel alloy and a small roller  bit bolted on the end...warp does rub and has worn the alloy a bit, over many trips over a good 10yrs..

Pic doesnt show the split bollard replacing the original in the pic
I want to load up more 'informational' pics, but want to delete the dupicate and not important ones 1st .Going thru the crap on  the to re post is a chore even now.
Please Admin, permissions given even for a day, or an hr?


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 12:52pm
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If possible centre the winch inline with roller.Direct pull/strain.Stops warp/chain jumping out of roller and get warp spliced to chain ,eliminates a shackle.Think its around $25/30 for a place to splice.

"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 6:16pm
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Yep, if look close you will see , as mentioned before, there is a pin over the anchor/ warp..I dont have to remove it.. But did have to grind a little round out of the anchor shaft so will drop, and pull right up (and the round sits on the roller)

Bit more of work hard at being lazy... a big must when crossing bars , and in heavy chop, the anchor (everything) must not be able to come loose.

Also being lazy, the rope tied from rear cleat to bow rail (both sides) jump out on the pontoon, can control the boat bow and stern easy.. dont need to mess with ropes as get out of the boat, then boat swings.
 And the tied Painter ropes looped on the bow rail... just long enough so if come loose while towing the boat, they dont go under the trailer wheels...pull the end they unravel..
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