Help with picking first boat...

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CanadianJohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 11:45pm
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the mac's, especially in the larger sizes do not hold their value so well. you can pick up a used 570 significantly cheaper then new. i have never been in a mac 600 and haven't heard much about them. 


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Lowbox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 5:09am
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For your first boat consider ease of launching and retrieving  - a smaller alloy boat is way easier to deal with, especially for beach launching, towing, storage...

The big question is actually how often you will want to take 4 people out - or if most of the time it will be 1 or 2 people. That makes a big difference to the size of the boat. 

The best advice I got was to start out with something manageable and learn on it. I ended up with a Surtees 4.85 and its been great. Can launch and retrieve single-handed, store in the garage and its now caught lots of fish. Five years on and I'm starting to look at 6m boats but that little Surtees has been great.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Sufishent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 7:53am
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If you're going to launch at Browns Bay consider joining the Browns Bay Boating Club and use the tractor to launch your boat - then you only need your vehicle to tow your boat from home to the club and no hassles launching/retrieving. 

I'm on the committee - let me know if you want more details and I'll send through.
You can never have enough fishing tackle
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hagrid7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 12:46pm
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Yes that sounds perfect. I will certainly join browns bay
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hagrid7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 12:47pm
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Originally posted by lowbox lowbox wrote:

For your first boat consider ease of launching and retrieving  - a smaller alloy boat is way easier to deal with, especially for beach launching, towing, storage...

The big question is actually how often you will want to take 4 people out - or if most of the time it will be 1 or 2 people. That makes a big difference to the size of the boat. 

The best advice I got was to start out with something manageable and learn on it. I ended up with a Surtees 4.85 and its been great. Can launch and retrieve single-handed, store in the garage and its now caught lots of fish. Five years on and I'm starting to look at 6m boats but that little Surtees has been great.
 


Thanks for the feedback. Is the surtees 4.85 the same size as the 495? And can you fit four people when needed on your boat?

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JustAnotherSpearo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 1:19pm
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These are the only videos I could take photos off that show our layout, ignore my father in the photo but this should give you an idea. Our set up is purely for spearing. We can have 3 fishing comfortably. 4 Is possible at a squeeze. 4 spearos is not a problem, two up front one sitting each side whatever or on the chilly bin.

We have a lot more room than most with a 520 boat, max load we have had is 5 Adults to the poor knights (2 on the seats, 1 on each gunwale (sides), one on the chilly bin).

If we take the canopy out fitting 4 to fish is a lot easier and a lot easier.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 3:31pm
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Originally posted by Hagrid7 Hagrid7 wrote:


Looked at the 495 today and seemed a good size. Was told a new model will be out early this year which is slightly larger which maybe a better option.


Any more info about this? Expect it's around the 5.4 mark?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hagrid7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 3:54pm
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No other news yet. Can't find anything on it. The salesman said it will be introduced at boat show.

But it's between 495 and the next model up. Is that the 550 or 575?   
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote 3rnzir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 4:43pm
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Go from the ground up.
Rated tyres for the gross laden weight.
Everything above the road contact rubber depends on wise decisions made here.
New trailer of a solid hot dipped steel construction.
Surge brakes.
Don`t fall for the "you will not even notice this boat/trailer combo behind your truck" line.
Or the "brakes require a lot of maintenance" sell.
Future proof your trailer for possible legislative changes.
Guide poles with removable LED lights.
Not really any truly submersible trailer lights that will last the distance.
Dual tyre jockey wheel.
Easy access rated tie down  points on trailer for rated ratcheted strops.
Walk plank down center line of trailer for shallow water/gradient launched if possible.
Spending a little more on your trailer will save a lot of heartache in the future.
Bunk style trailers offer very good hull support without the stress point loading of some wobble roller designs.
Cheerz 
Peace.Via superior firepower..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote funandfunction Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 8:50pm
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Originally posted by JustAnotherSpearo JustAnotherSpearo wrote:

End of the boat marked and where they consider the end of the boat. Hope this helps Big smile



Same at the sharp end.... that anchor fairlead/ bow sprit is included in the hull length.
There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote brmbrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 7:51am
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The surtees 495 is basically the same hull as the 485, just a change in the way things are measured.  There are a few minor changes and these seem to me to be improvements in detail.

For space, look at the beam and the distance in the cockpit between transom and the seats; thats the area you have to fish in. Thats how you should judge how "big" it is for fishing purposes

I have a surtees 485 and am very happy with it: for its size it has a lot of fishing area. Having said that, you couldn't fish 4 comfortably: 2 is fine, 3 is a bit of a squash, but maybe i just like a bit of space around me. Its not just space to stand and watch a rod in a rodholder. You have to cast, work a lure, deal with your fish while someone else is doing the same etc etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hagrid7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 9:36pm
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Originally posted by brmbrm brmbrm wrote:

The surtees 495 is basically the same hull as the 485, just a change in the way things are measured.  There are a few minor changes and these seem to me to be improvements in detail.

For space, look at the beam and the distance in the cockpit between transom and the seats; thats the area you have to fish in. Thats how you should judge how "big" it is for fishing purposes

I have a surtees 485 and am very happy with it: for its size it has a lot of fishing area. Having said that, you couldn't fish 4 comfortably: 2 is fine, 3 is a bit of a squash, but maybe i just like a bit of space around me. Its not just space to stand and watch a rod in a rodholder. You have to cast, work a lure, deal with your fish while someone else is doing the same etc etc.



Thanks for the feedback. Have you used this Surtees boat to tow a sea biscuit? Does it have fast acceleration when the ballast is full?

Thanks heaps
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote brmbrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 6:24am
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Originally posted by Hagrid7 Hagrid7 wrote:

Originally posted by brmbrm brmbrm wrote:

The surtees 495 is basically the same hull as the 485, just a change in the way things are measured.  There are a few minor changes and these seem to me to be improvements in detail.

For space, look at the beam and the distance in the cockpit between transom and the seats; thats the area you have to fish in. Thats how you should judge how "big" it is for fishing purposes

I have a surtees 485 and am very happy with it: for its size it has a lot of fishing area. Having said that, you couldn't fish 4 comfortably: 2 is fine, 3 is a bit of a squash, but maybe i just like a bit of space around me. Its not just space to stand and watch a rod in a rodholder. You have to cast, work a lure, deal with your fish while someone else is doing the same etc etc.



Thanks for the feedback. Have you used this Surtees boat to tow a sea biscuit? Does it have fast acceleration when the ballast is full?

Thanks heaps

No, I haven't towed.  I have 60 hp 4=stroke.  The boat is rated to 70 hp.  When full (I have had 5 people on board) it is slow getting onto the plane
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote 3rnzir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 10:05pm
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Go for a 2 Stk direct injected engine,Tohatsu,Optimax,ETec,of the same HP for the given recommended hull,and you should be fine.
These are not the old tech carbie engines here,
A modern DI 2 Stk will bliltz a 4 Stk almost every time.
Research for yourself the comparisons,
Way less parts in a 2 Stk to fail.
Quiet at idle is the only advantage a 4 stk seems to have over a 2 stk.
Fuel economy of a 4 Stk is a fallacy.
Current best fuel/lowest  emission,is not in the realm of the 4 Stk believers,
Take the hole punch/torque of a 2 Stk for peace of mind.
At speed,how can one tell engine noise ,with hull and wind noise etc?
Just sayin'
Cheerz  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 8:34am
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Bottom line... the above post nails so much over marketing propaganda instigated by the requirement of several governments of countries on emissions etc..which as so many government calls can also often be put intp question .

Think bout it.. you make outboards, and if continue to do so you must dramatically change you product, in line with the competitions new line. So what will your long term marketing propaganda line take?
 Well "economy innovation" has been the successful line for many decades.
Also of note there are several class actions before the courts also.
One must also note that the new breed of 4S have a good 10 to 15% hp over the advertised...This brings the lower hp in the lower rpm range up on the HP /rpm curves... Which then gives far better reserve power thru the HP range, better performance and with that around 10% better economy.
Funny, how  replacing  a a rated 100% 2S with a 115 hp rated, is different to replacing a 100 2S with a rated 100 Hp 4S that puts out 115 hp...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 8:41am
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PS
Hagrid.. you are looking at a 1st boat.. you do not mention  the use, how many people, where intend to go.. on the long term plan, is it sea boat or lake boat?
These are basic to size of boat, design layout and also power.
eg if just a couple guys fishing local lake the power requirement for reasonable cruise, hull performance etc is very different to say hitting a bit of open sea water with 3 or 4 guys plus dive gear.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hagrid7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 8:50am
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

PS
Hagrid.. you are looking at a 1st boat.. you do not mention  the use, how many people, where intend to go.. on the long term plan, is it sea boat or lake boat?
These are basic to size of boat, design layout and also power.
eg if just a couple guys fishing local lake the power requirement for reasonable cruise, hull performance etc is very different to say hitting a bit of open sea water with 3 or 4 guys plus dive gear.


Hi steps

After a boat to fish in sea. Go to a couple of other bays etc.

Fishing 2 to 4 people. Usually 2.

Tow a ski 🎿 also.

I am considering the surtees 495 with 75hp 4 stroke at present.

Or mclay 551. Or fc525.


Not too sure
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 10:21am
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Big difference to a 5m (or near) to a 5.5m 
And thats assuming the hull / model) is measured correctly from bottom of the stern (not the pods) to tip of bow.. not including anchor ..
 Difference in space, layouts, and weight, and requirement to power that weight.
 Surtees tend to require more hp on the back to get the same performance ( cruise/ WoT/ chop comfort/ economy at the same speed, as other hulls.

Generally a 5m boat  will fish 2 maybe 3 comfortably
 a 5.5m wil fish 3 comfort, 4 getting tight
 6m will fish 4 very comfortably
 As to powering, best hull performance/ economy  in chop. with good economic cruise speed and WoT more than needed, and pull up a couple skiers easy .. all 3 an unintended side effect ...
You need to know the fully loaded gross weight on the water to achieve a ball park cruise around 3800/4000 rpms around min 30/33 mph and WoT around the low to mid 40 mph mark.
 Generally.. not including surtees.. a 5.5 m boat,  gross weight is around the 1100 to 1250kg mark  with around 130/140 hp at the prop.
 Modern 4S tend to be around 10 to 15% higher than advertised , so a 115hp is actually around 130 hp at the prop.
 And if propped approiately A 2S with the same hp at the prop will be damn near the same economy.. with often a bslightly better hole shot.

 Also note.. well powered you will not need to change props between skiing and general use.. min powered if proped to general use, will be very noticeably sluggish if there is a prop change to match the use.

 Personally.. if a family general use boat, dont mind cleaning down wash after use (seems to be a dying trend to actually look after ones stuff these days)... very little if any beach launching.. not free of rocks.. I would be going to around a 5.5m at least, 130/140 hp at the prop, fibreglass.
 If going to treat the investment like a stock car in a demolition derby.. alloy.

Choice would be primary be on the layout of the boat that would best suit youir over all requirements... and think about that very carefully
Even have 3 or 4 m8s with you at the yard, in the boat making pretend to get near a real life situation moving around etc.
 Estimating  just doesnt work unless you say "this will work" and then go next size boat up.
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