Bimini Twist Failiure

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    Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 4:38pm
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Hi Guys I have been tying Bimini twists in PE8 braid all afternoon and am having almost every single one break inside the twist or right on the mainline end of the twist. 

The thing is even though the braid has an actual breaking strain of over 100lb all the knots are breaking around the 15-18kg mark. It must be something with the way I am tying the knot because I cannot break the braid by hand.

I have tried tying it with more and less tension but it doesn't seem to change anything.

So my question is has anyone else had the same problem with tying a 25 turn Bimini twist in braid and have they figured out a solution?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 4:55pm
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Twists are the nemisis of braid..... The fibres on the outside of the twist are under more load then the inside of the twist and fail, causing a chain reaction...

You could try an aussie plat, which due to its nature has a little more stretch than a bimini . ( Not something I have tried in Braid)


F.G to leader for casting would be my pick.






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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote out2sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 5:13pm
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Thanks Titahi, normally I tie an FG knot for my braid to leader connection but after watching Journey of a fisherman's video on top water connections here, I thought I would give the bimini twist/yukatan connection a go. If it holds up to big yellow fin tuna and GT surely it must be alright.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 5:20pm
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I certainly don't question Tony O's advice, given his global experience.

But if you're having trouble, maybe revert to the FG for now until someone can show you in person? can you maybe pop in to Yeehaa or one of the other top specialist shops for a demo?

The boys on Big Angry Fish use braid to mono with just the FG, and if you've seen Nathan in muscle man mode lock up on a big kingie you know that the FG is all most of us will ever need.
Ditto the guys on Morning Tide Fishing, and they land some massive GTs.
They have some good vids on pushing knots to breaking point.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote out2sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 5:42pm
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Thanks Tamure kid, I have been watching those morning tide guys for a couple of years they certainly got me pretty amped up for topwater fishing. So far for me the FG has never broken while fishing.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Catchelot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 7:55pm
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Out2sea When I first learnt about the bimini and saw blokes doing it, and then trying the method as well I did not like the heat that was generated by the large tension and then spring winding action of the manner in which the mono was bound up tightly, so I didn't use or like them for that reason as any heat weakens mono.

I preserved and kept trying every now and again but I suck at tying them by myself. So I don't use personally.

Let me see if I can get two experts on this to chime in. Krow and Hookerpuka...

Krow built a small jig and makes one in seconds!Geek

I have since learnt how to do it with out great heat, but it involves two people to do it and its hard to explain how by typing... 

I also saw DIY - Amanda, tie one off her shoe in about 30 seconds also!Star


Originally posted by Titahi Titahi wrote:

Twists are the nemisis of braid..... The fibres on the outside of the twist are under more load then the inside of the twist and fail, causing a chain reaction...

You could try an aussie plat, which due to its nature has a little more stretch than a bimini . ( Not something I have tried in Braid)


F.G to leader for casting would be my pick.


Yep done many plaits in braid, no issues at all, I finish with a fairly long french whipping, as opposed to double back plaiting the last say 10 plaits of a mono line.

I like and are confident with the improved albright for braid to mono knot for light tackle, not sure yet if I would do one for gamefishing greater then 30lb with out major testing.Ouch

I like the FG, but need to practice it more...

PR is cool but too fiddly for me and my diminishing eyesight.Embarrassed



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote kaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 9:10pm
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You answered your own problem in your last paragraph.

Bimimi twist in braid, you need to use at least 50 twists, 25 is a mono figure.
Try that and i think you will find your numbers improve markedlyWink
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 9:19pm
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Out2sea I've also had this problem so you're not doing anything wrong so to speak. The PE8 braid I was given (it's yellow) was purchased cheap. It is about the breaking strain as per ID. Problem was though like you I couldn't tie any knot that would come near it's rating. I did solve the issue rather than bin it. 
Shall I tease and answer tomorrow? 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 9:48pm
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After numerous attempts the only way to get a 100% knot was to sleeve the entire knot area with hollow braid before tying a Bimini. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 10:04pm
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Catchelot, while you're stuck without being able to post pictures of your fishing companions Wink, i recommend watching these two YouTube videos from the US 'Salt Strong' guys on the FG knot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjzUb5QRKuk

And the biggest mistake they see people make:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD1gWbp9zKo&t=15s

I used to use Nathan from Big Angry Fish's method, but sometimes didn't get it right with that - because it's easy to not tension correctly when you just flip the braid over the mono loosely, then try to tension everything up.

the method above is based on wrapping the mono/fluoro over the braid under tension, and it seems to work better for me. I've done it in the boat, and on a wharf, successfully using this method.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 8:45am
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Ditto on the above for FG
I tie mine of the end of the rod using the rod and drag for tension.
 Very quick to tie.
wrap braid around little finger to hold tension... 
 Foot on trace to hold tension.
 Wind the trace figer of 8 motion around the braid  keeping tension of everything.
 VERY VERY important to pull up  after no more than 8 figer of 8s
Also very important to pull up each finish before proceeding to the next...
 Pulling up on a knot in briad is a must.

Bimmini breaking at the top....had that with some cheap yellow stuff was given few yrs back.. it went little fluffy after use.
Again bimmini is a quick knot using the rod as 3rd hand to keep tension.
I use it in end of braid line to loop a swivel/ clip on the end..
Take braid off the end of the rod, double back with a good tag end.
2 fingers in the bottom of the loop, and hold top with good length tag loose keeping tension on the braid.. twist up around 30 times...always hold tension... put little more tension on, hold end of tag and bring down towards the fingers holding the end of the loop... the tag twists tight around the twists. Finish with 1/2 hitch each side of the loop.. holding tension and pulling each up as you do them...3 or 4 to finish around both sides of the loop.

I did have issues early on with 'lassoing' the swivel into end of the loop breaking there.... now pass thru 3 or 4 times in a cats paw... these cant be pulled up each time pulled thru.. found any more than 4 they will not pull up well sometimes.

I think the failure at the top of the bimmini will be either the type of braid or not holding tension all the way thru tieing, or a little of both.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FlawOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 10:27am
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Im a big fan of the FG knot too. 

I use it exclusively for all my braid to leader connections.
I find it flexible enough and works well with a variety of braids, fluro and even mono. I am yet to see one let go although i don't catch 30KG models but sometimes catch rock monsters that either break off at the leader or further up the braid.

I learnt it from the 'Salt Strong' links supplied by TTK above and find that constantly re  tensioning the knot results in the optimal finish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote out2sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 12:10pm
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Ok so I have tried a bunch more with varying degrees of success all however have still broken at the top of the twist. Number of turns hasn't seemed to make a difference 25 and 50 turns both broke near enough the same pressure. 

The picture below is of 2 twists tied in Shimano Ocea EX8 PE8 braid and 2 twists tied in Tasline Elite white Hollow PE8.  If someone can see something obviously wrong with how I have tied any of them please let me know. 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote GSPOT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 2:01pm
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Here is me tying an FG. Heaps easier and more accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa_aaN8t8mo
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote home bouy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 2:57pm
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had the same problems when I tried tying bimini twists. every now and then id get one that would be good but never really had confidence in them so decided to learn the fg and wouldn't ever use something different. unless you can find enough negatives to change my mind why wouldn't you use a fg???
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 6:22pm
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Getting back to the bimini...that is a loop knot...very similar in nature to the FG.
The bimini loop is either used to loop/ cats paw a swivel/ clip whatever or similar on the end.
 Or use the looped end as a double strand for a knot to tie the leader to  eg albright/ yucatan/ blood...
Is the latter what you guys are doing and failing?
Doing this increases the size of the knot and how it goes out the eyes on a cast.

I have never had a bimini fail, used as a loop knot.
 The most common reason for fail of a knot is where there is a point in the knot thats is under tension one line crosses at a sort of 90 degree, that causes the crossed section to be 'cut'
  eg albright at the end that the doubled line goes over the tag ends on the line on the outside.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 7:04pm
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[QUOTE=GSPOT]Here is me tying an FG. Heaps easier and more accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa_aaN8t8mo[/QUOTE]
 
Nice and easy
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 7:14pm
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I know the bimini has been a favourite of many for years. I've never tied one that I was 100%happy with. I know enough to know it isn't a short coming with the knot. Sometimes you find a knot that suits you (such as the FG with me) sometimes you find one that doesn't suit you. Like the plait or bimini for me.

I spent a lot of time testing knots on a line tester and I can tie a pretty good uniknot. Possibly the simplest knot is the clinch knot yet I suck at that and got poor results on the line tester. Yet I did really well with the uni knot. seems too silly to be true but it is

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote waynorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 9:16pm
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I had the same problem with doubles back with the early generation braids Jordan. Plaits were a waste of time, & the strength of the biminis was erratic. I found the bimini a lot more reliable if I spaced out the first 5-6 twists of the second or 'down' layer, so they cover probably the last 10-15 twists of the bottom or 'up' layer, then continue the 2nd layer with the twists tight against each other, as you appear to have done in your photos for the full length. 

Might be worth a try - the top of the twist where the friction starts being applied to the single mainline stays a bit looser & allows a bit more movement perhaps ?

Like many above I now use the FG for almost all braid/leader joins, & those videos from Tamure Kid/GSpot are the best way I've found for tying it. 
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