Mayflies

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    Posted: 12 May 2007 at 6:06am
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Hi Guys
What kind of mayflies exist down under.
I dont need names but relative sizes and
colours would be nice.
Thanks in advance
P-A
 
 
Ps. Maybe this kind will due? Ds
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kiwitroutbum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2007 at 8:59am
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That'll work!
When you are here though P-A you will be using BIG dries and having them come up and eat off the top.
Have you seen any cicada patterns? I have none to post at present but Clark on the board has a very good deerhair pattern, which is tied by Umqua

and Stu Tripney of Stu's flyshop has a bunch of patterns tied with foam as does Peter carty. Both these tiers also have patterns listed with Umqua.

I love it when big trout come over and smash cicadas!Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote P-A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2007 at 7:22am
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We dont have cikadas here but i have
seen them in southern europe. Thats a big mouthful.
Leif �rtenholm a famous swedish flytier
is contructing loads of Cicada patterns for me.
They are so damn relistic that i might eat them my self.
Big%20smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2007 at 11:30am
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The phase to really focus on, particularly in the south is that of the emerger. Trout will accept an emerger when feeding on duns, but will rarely take a dun when locked onto emergers.
 
Trout can expect to see these at any point of the day, and will often respond favourably to a wee emerger, even when feeding on larger prey items. Remember this.
 
After, say the first week of the cicada season many rivers have been hit hard by anglers wandering upstream and thrashing the water to foam. You can guess what they are all using... Big size 8 type terrestrials.
Now I dont think trout look at individual patterns like we do, rather the prey images they project whilst trapped in / on the surface.
 
Think of the myriad of spent spinner imitations on sale in south island flyshops. some are bright, some are dull, some sport striped abdomans whilst some are just plain dubbed. What if all the trout sees is this prey image here...
 
 
Any of the above patterns would work, as long as it was of the correct size, threw out the right silouhette and sat low in the surface, drifting at the mercy of the currents.
 
Needless to say, if you were using a stimulator, I was using a madam x, and the next guy was using a deer hair cicada, from the trouts viewpoint, he would really just see three of pretty much the same thing. Now this isnt the problem.
 
Problem comes when the trout has been spooked a few times by improper presentation of these large terrestrial bugs, and now looks very carefuly at similar food items in the drift. Remember, most anglers in feb will be throwing these large terrestrial types. Not all these anglers wil be adept enough at casting long leaders and big dries, particularly on the oreti.... Think a lot of suspicious trout.
 
This is where the wee emerger comes into play.
This often encountered, inconspicuous prey image will not arouse the same suspicion as the large prey image of the cicada that has now been seen many times dragging across the surface, slapped down inapropriatly, or attached to that long bendy thing being held by that 2 legged creature with the net.
 
This past feb I confidently fished a wee deer hair emerger throughout the summer season and had one of the best cicada seasons ever.... on a wee mayfly! You'll be amazed how far a cicada munchng trout wil move to hit a wee size 16 emerger in the meniscus, with very few refusals
 
Tie your emerger so that the abdoman penetrates the surface film, for this I feel is one of the major triggers of an emerging mayfly. A curved hook, or a forward slanting wing would do it.
Think messy and non descript when designing the fly, for an emerger doesnt just represent one stable form. Wings are unfolding, legs are flailing, and the adult is trying to rid himself of its expendeble nymphal shuck. The emerging mayfly presents many, many ever changing prey images, so try and imitate this in your tie.
 
Pictured is my wee emerger pattern, which seems to work for me in most situations where trout are looking towards the surface.... even when willow grubbing! Its not the be all or end all of mayfly representations, but is simple and quick to tie,possesses what I feel are the essential triggers, and is as durable as you wish to make it.
 
I dont think colour is a major factor. If the size, silouhette, position in the surface film and behaviour is in line with the natural, you've got him!
Remember the wee emerger whenever a 'difficult' trout is encountered.
 
the%20wee%20emerger
 
Hope this post helps.
 
Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2007 at 9:08pm
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Looks like something Wyatt would use Clap.
 
Certainly emergers and cripples are bloody effective... good to see you here Chris...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2007 at 9:14pm
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Thanks Clarke.
Bob calls it an origonal tie, different from his due to the straight shank and shuck... Truth is, I couldnt be bothered digging through the drawer for my B110's and the shuck was a play thing. CDC or Deer hair wing. Both work fine.
 
Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2007 at 11:45pm
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Absolutely Chris, didn't mean it was Wyatt's, just it just the sort of thng he loves....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Onecast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 9:08am
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Hi Chris; I like that little emerger looks like my type of fly.  I have had similar experiences with Cicada Shy trout on some Waikato streams and I have found that changing down to one of my small Go To dry flies. Has proved the difference between getting frustrated or having a good day.
I'm sure that I will have some of your little emergers ready for next season. Jax
A man is only as big as the things that annoy him

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kiwitroutbum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 12:47pm
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Bloody hell Chris! Worthy of an articleThumbs%20UpClap

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 1:13pm
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It is an article, and a bloody good one too....Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Onecast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 1:30pm
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I concur  Thumbs%20Up  Jax
A man is only as big as the things that annoy him

RIP 'Onecast' Jax Murray
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 4:59pm
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Thanks guys. I often just babble. I have lots of theories pertaining to trout fishing. Some make sense, some are utter crap, and I always like a little feedback, no matter which way it swings ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 5:13pm
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Mate, I always babble and so we should.... Theories are the best things for our sport i reckon, it makes you want ot go out again and "try" the new theory etc....
 
To me it's the best part of it all.....
 
An evolutionary journey that begins with a flyrod in hand.....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 5:21pm
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very well said mate Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote John Campbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2007 at 7:38pm
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umm, back in March and thereabouts I fished a big stimulator and a little emerger a foot or two behind it, guess which one they took mostly. I put it down to there being cicadas and smaller stuff like lace moths around. Interesting stuff Chris.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kiwitroutbum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2007 at 8:04pm
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Emergers and cripples give the image of vulnerability and like any predatory animal, trout sense and eat the easy target.
ummm. Another whole article here for someone to pontificate about and with supernormal release triggers, hours of entertainment!
Perfect for late night scotch and fishing mates

I don't know how many hours I've chewed this over. One of my favs!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2007 at 8:32pm
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Now you got me going... someone pass me a Jamisons and let's get started....Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2007 at 11:17am
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Well as mentioned above I do not think that colour comes into it until well down the line.

If a fish refuses ones fly or ignores it, most peoples first instinct is to change the colour of the fly.
I say they should first look at the size, and then the silouhette.
 
As Ive also mentioned elswhere recently, I feel the first thing that catches the trouts eye, what distinguishes a food item from other flotsam in the water is the size of said morsal.
 
Silouhette comes into play soon after and I feel that if these two aspects of the overall prey image are fulfiled, most times the trout will look closer at the fly. If its behaving naturally on / in/ beneath the surface (three important distinctions here) then they will hit.
 
Imagine looking out the window at night. out of the corner of your eye you glimpse a triangular shape roughly the size of a coin, and without even thinking you know this is a moth. Not a leaf, not a smudge etc, but a moth.
 
the size, confirmed by the silouhette tells you this without thinking, whereas if it was several inches longer you would probably regard it as something else. (or absolutly freak!!!)
 
It takes very little energy, or brain power to define such things using this prey image method, and we all know that trout are efficient feeders.
 
So taking this on board, if the trout refuses your fly, or ignores it completly then it probably didnt fall into the accepted prey image it was searching for.
 
Change to a different size of fly, and then look at the ilouhette it throws out.
 
After that, look at its positioning on / in / beneath the surface film and finally behaviour.
 
Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Onecast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2007 at 6:58pm
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I must agree with Chris. Size and Silhouette are to my mind top of the list after a refusal, if you consider that drag was not a factor in the refusal.
 
Colour is not high on my priority list and I point to Mother Natures rather drab palette when she was busy designing the trout's menu. Ying%20Yang Jax
A man is only as big as the things that annoy him

RIP 'Onecast' Jax Murray
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2007 at 7:24pm
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I absolutely agree also and I think your first sentence is my main process... I believe drag the main (80%) reason for most refusals... after that you will cover the 20% following the size, shillouette, where it floats if its a dry and then colour....

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