5m aluminium boat

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote gregvisser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 5m aluminium boat
    Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 9:35am
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Hi folks,
 
I've been in the boating game for about 4 years now. 95% of my boating is out of Auckland. My first boat was a 3.5m smartwave with a 15 hp on the back. Bought something small because I didn't know if boating was a thing I would do a lot of (most folks I know buy a boat, use it hard for the first summer and then it stands in the backyard for a year or so before they flick it on). Well, I used the smartwave plenty! Then about a year ago, started fishing a lot with my partner and she wanted something bigger that can 'drive from the front'. So got a great little Fyran 385 with a 30 hp. Again, we get really good use out of it and it certainly doesn't end up standing around.
 
So we are thinking about upgrading again. Looking for a cabin type aluminium boat around the 5m mark with maybe a 60 hp motor on it. I have done some yards and at this stage like the look of the FC510 and the 495 Surtees Workmate. I do like that they have the ability to flood the bilge and add a bit more weight to the boat for stability. I have not looked hard at the pontoon boats like the Stabi 1650, but they just feel smaller in terms of space. I might need to have another look at the boat show with a tape measure.
 
From what I saw: FC510 - looks like the dryer boat, nice nose config, live bait tank, high sides, ability to flush bilge, can keep ballast upfront
Surtees 495 - better finish/build quality, more compact package, feels more polished.
 
I have also done a bit reading and from what I see both these feels a bit heavy in the ass with a small window for now you are on the plane, now not.
 
Can anyone provide some feedback on these boats and tell me if I am missing any other models? I have also looked at the Maclay 521 and the Fyran Rebel 500 and feel the FC510 and Surtees are a step up.
 
Any opinions/experience appreciated.
 
Thanks
Greg
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Contract Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 10:26am
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There is no doubt that pontoon boats sacrifice a little internal beam, but the counter is, that they feel more "nuggety".
I am unsure how to explain this in words. Ever closed the door on a BMW and heard the "clunk". Then closed the door on a Nissan ?
Different sound ~ eh ? Smile
Budget is the next consideration. If you could afford a Toyota Land Cruiser V8 Diesel ~ you would probably buy one. If you couldn't, but still wanted good gear, you would probably settle for a Toyota Prado or similar. Failing that ~ go for a Kia or a Santa Fe.
They will all do the job ~ just at differing comfort & resale levels.
Now change to the other end of the towbar & read Stabicraft / Senator, Frewza & FC Evil Smile
The boat show is a good place to "seal the deal", but I would be wanting to have my ducks all lined up by then. You have to get out on the water and experience the comparisons. The boat show is where you shop for the best deal for the product that you have decided on.
If you use the boat show to but "the cheapest available" ~ it will end in tears !
 
If you are looking at second hand, you maybe will want to take out Stabi (their old hulls are definitely not a patch on the new ones) and possibly Frewza (nobody wants to sell theirs !)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 12:09pm
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Mac 420 with 60hp 4S would be awesome made by Mac Boats in Akld.  Love the low maintenance plastic and is a stealth machine if fishing in shallows.  Ask Snapper Geoff in Mokau.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote johnybegood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 12:24pm
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Just my 2c but you probably need to get in each of them and work out what you want to get out of that front cabin. In that size range, aside from putting gear up there they can't really be used to sit in/lie down - probably the next step up to the 5.8/6m range would allow you to be more comfortable if you want to have a practicle use cabin, but it's an entirely different boat.
I just want to jig
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Joker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 1:01pm
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I don't know what the FC510 is like but the FC500 C/C has a really flat transition from displacement to planning and with a 4 blade prop does not fall off the plane at low speeds. It planes from about 12mph though it is hard to determine the actual transition to planning as the hull remains flat throughout. I don't know who told you they are bum heavy but they are not due to a good size beam and gull wing chines. They are also very dry boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote gregvisser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 3:11pm
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Some good things to think about. I don't want to waste boat dealers time, so when I think I've got it down to my top 2 I will definitely ask to test boat them. Agree that looking pretty and boating nice is two different things.
In terms of the cabin, its just a case of having something to get out of the spray/weather while boating to and from the spot. I know one sacrifices soft baiting/general fishing room, but ultimately I am ok with that. Just a knee jerk from too many ferry wake sandwiches on my small boats I guess!
 
 
Check it out - you might just trade in your center console on that baby!
 
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 4:32pm
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The advantage of small cuddy is shelter.  If not from spray, then from the wind.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 5:20pm
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Mike Aqua X2 nice to have shelter when weather turns to custard which happens a lot on Manukau Harbour.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Time_Bandit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 5:57pm
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under floor fuel tank in my surtees has made all the difference to being arse heavy 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote woodsy13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 8:05pm
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went through this recently and the shortlist was Surtees & frewza. ended up with the surtees. but you wont go wrong with any of these
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2015 at 12:44pm
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Been looking around and there are a lot of boats that fly under the radar in terms of brand recognition. Profile, extreme, DNA, Allenco, the list goes on. Clicked on one of the links on the front page of this website for a 5 meter cat from Maverick Boats that looks sweet once they start playing with Cuddy cabins and better storage options IMO. We need a thread from reviews for under 5 m ali boats other than stabi, surtees and frewza (who would have said that 3 years ago - but that just shows there are a heap of players who could be the next big thing!)
 
*note some of those brands have won best in show at boat shows so good brand, but just not talked about in the small vessel range.
 
**another point, but who else hates reading views from the boating mags about boats under 5 meters being for entry level boaties. Idiots.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2015 at 2:47pm
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Advantage of Small cuddy is shelter from wind chill and somewhere to keep gear dry
Disadvantage of cuddy is more surface area to catch wind and cause swinging if at anchor when no current
But not really a major irritation.
Would not be put off by slightly narrower interior width in some pontoons. Very quickly adapt to that and not even notice after a short while. IMO pontoon has advantages in small boat under 5 M size.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote of2fsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2015 at 5:17pm
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What's the resale going to be like ? How many second hand ones are for sale on trade me?
For me build quality was up there near the top, if the welds you see are top notch the ones you don't will also be.
Are they spat off a production line or built by the a company that treats every boat as there own ?
Can you customise the boat to suit the way you fish and add on the little things you want at not a lot more $$$

A cuddy will be a harder ride than a cc, a cc holds more weight near the back and gets a more comfortable ride because of this.

As someone's mentioned doing your homework before the boat show is important , you really want your mind made up before hand so you can get a good deal.
Boat show awards mean absolutely nothing at all, it's so political take no notice of this as the winners won't nescecarily be the best boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2015 at 10:50pm
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Bull -agree anyboby who thinks under 5 meters are entry level - is an idiot (your word -I would say misguidied)

Contract - to say older stabis are less good than new stabis is not logical (even though you'd think progress would have improved them) .  A 490 stabi placed against either slightly smaller or slightly bigger newer stabi (or similar size and similar horse power) would eat it for sea keeping.  Simply because newer ones were built for more cookpit room over their sea keeping.  New ones might help you put a bigger marlin in boat or ferry few more people and require bigger horsepower to get same speed and would be less fuel efficient.  And simply won't ride as good (especially in head sea) due to their  wider beam. Been in a 509 with 80 hp yami 4/ for comparism against well used 490 with a yamhi 50 4/. The rides are different. One is better and it is the older narrower boat with higher bow configuration - which is probably we why run up to a 100 miles a day out to 50 nautical miles offshore in a 5 meter boat with a reasonable degree of confidence
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rahui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 7:15am
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Paeora marine have a similar boat to the 5.10 fc made for them, worth a look. also not all pontoons are cramped, I checked out the 1650 stabi and I have to say that the aqualine 495 has much more room in her. in saying that the 1650 stabi was a beautiful boat better finish than my girl.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mmmWord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 7:34am
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Very happy with my Senator RC 450, just to throw them into the mix (there are plenty of slightly larger options). Plenty of room inside despite having pontoons, etc. Packages are bit cheaper than equivalent Surtees/Kiwicraft etc, which I guess is evident in a more 'workmanlike' finish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Espresso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 8:57am
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The boat show will be a great place to sort things out, go from one boat of similar size and cost to the other, go on board, you will quikly get an idea of what suits your particular desires in terms of where you actually fish, and want to.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 9:39am
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Ive been looking at 5m boats (not that I can afford to change from my 4.1m Frewza pontoon).
 
How important the aspects will be, is a matter of opinion. To me, important things are -
- better (softer) ride in choppy sea. Generally I believe, softer will come from - longer hull, narrower beam, sharper bow and hull deadrise.
- narrower beam means narrower trailer - hate wide trailer for towing and parking.
- lateral stability - better if wider beam, and major downturned hull chine (usually called gullwing). This varies a lot - external pontoons usually have a pronounced gullwing, some non-pontoons do some don't.
- reserve buoyancy - when swamped (water in the boat), would like it to stay afloat, and preferably right side up. Pontoons do, others maybe but most appear to be inadequate.
- price - higher is hard to justify, unless Im rich (which Im not).
 
Anyway - I am intrigued by multi-hulls. VMG make a major hull with 2  minor hulls beside (called sponsons). Maverick make a 2-hull model. Both reckon it gives a softer ride; as the hulls are much finer entry than single hulls, and stability is good with multi hulls. However, downsides are - much wider beam (don't like), much higher price (don't like).
 
Generally - I think selecting a boat is hard, unless you have had a lot of experience. It took me, 4 years and 4 boats before I got mine about right. Not quite though - would love a 5m boat.    
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 10:43am
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The external beam on most of the boats this size is only 100 - 150 mm difference. Not a deal breaker and really not going to make a huge difference to stability. Deadrise and how high the weight is make much more difference as well as the obvious - bouyancy whether through chambers, pontoons or multihulls.
There is no such thing as the perfect boat as what you need for a good ride is generally different from what you need for stability at rest and vice versa.
I have always loved cats because I think they are the best for both worlds, but they are generally more expensive and not a huge market for them so not much choice and not as much resale yet sadly. Aussie and SA seem to have adopted cats much more readily than we have and have some interesting looking boats. I do love the look of the Maverick, but I am not an early adopter and it needs a cuddy version and about 4 grand knocked off the price. VMG I have never seen before. Black Dog Cats are interesting and would like to look around one. They do look pretty rough / utilitarian, which probably suits me.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Contract Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2015 at 4:56pm
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Originally posted by shaneg shaneg wrote:

Bull -agree anyboby who thinks under 5 meters are entry level - is an idiot (your word -I would say misguidied)

Contract - to say older stabis are less good than new stabis is not logical (even though you'd think progress would have improved them) .  A 490 stabi placed against either slightly smaller or slightly bigger newer stabi (or similar size and similar horse power) would eat it for sea keeping.  Simply because newer ones were built for more cookpit room over their sea keeping.  New ones might help you put a bigger marlin in boat or ferry few more people and require bigger horsepower to get same speed and would be less fuel efficient.  And simply won't ride as good (especially in head sea) due to their  wider beam. Been in a 509 with 80 hp yami 4/ for comparism against well used 490 with a yamhi 50 4/. The rides are different. One is better and it is the older narrower boat with higher bow configuration - which is probably we why run up to a 100 miles a day out to 50 nautical miles offshore in a 5 meter boat with a reasonable degree of confidence
 
Sorry Shaneg. I am talking about their new Arrow pontoons. I have been in similar length (older) Stabi's and the ride difference is quite apparent. I am not saying that the oldies are "no good" ~ I am saying the new ones are better. I still stand by that. That is the logic I am using ~ one of experience & ownership !
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