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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Berley
    Posted: 19 Aug 2016 at 9:41am
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Titanium
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I would like a discussion about berley.
Few days ago, I went near foul on the seaward side of Tiri Island. Anchored about 50m from foul, incoming tide, relatively weak current I thought (due a small tide). Started 1.5hrs after low tide. Berley down. Fishing 2 rods with single hook, bait, cast down-current towards the foul.
No bites immediately. After about 30 minutes, bites started. After an hour, caught a 30cm snapper. After about 1.24hrs caught a 32cm, after 1.5hrs caught a 38cm. Then bites reduced, after 2 hrs virtually no bites, an occasional perfunctory tug.  
 
This has been a consistent pattern. Sometimes no bites at all. Usually, bites beginning about half hour from start, and tailing off an hour or two later.
 
I assume its due to berley working, attracting fish from in and near the foul - then eventually berley reducing and running out, no longer attracting fish.
 
This wont be news to anyone - I am thinking off how this could be improved. Several areas come to mind.
 
The berley is 3kg, in a wobbly pot, which has a large net bag with large holes. I have used a hard plastic pot and an onion bag - but they have I think too small holes (not allowing much berley out and clogging with lumps).
To slow the loss of berley, I cut 2 slices in the plastic  each side, about half the length. At the start, berley is frozen, and this presumably reduces its release until it thaws a bit. Berley lasts about 1.5 to 2 hrs. But, I think the later part of this is poor release as the remaining small lump falls to the bottom inside a pile of plastic and doesn't seem to release.  
 
So - I reckon - berley effectiveness, is low at the start, improves in the middle and reduces to nil towards the end - probably only about one hour of good effectiveness. Not so good eh.
 
I would like to improve - the evenness of berley effectiveness - and the length of time. Using a second berley would do this, but another $10 is off-putting.
 
Any pearls of wisdom, or ideas at all, would be of interest.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2016 at 10:25am
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How deep are you setting the berley pot? This will have a big effect on distribution.
 
Also 50m from the foul sounds like a long way to me... depends on depth though I guess.
 
In terms of keeping the berley effectiveness relatively even, I like to leave 1 berley bomb in a bucket on the deck while we trailer the boat down and drive to the spot, that way the outside is starting to go soft. Then when deployed, take the next berley bomb and put it in the bucket so it's primed to go in a couple of hours. If you hiff a rock-solid frozen berley bomb down in winter waters it will take forever to start doing anything useful.
 
In winter I just put them in a mesh bag inside a wobbly pot. They last a good 2 hours but I am in Wellington with our single-digit water temperature.
 
In summer I tend to slash the plastic a few times then throw it in the mesh bag otherwise it flows out like crazy.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2016 at 11:01am
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Titanium
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a lot will also depend on the taste (smell) of burley being used.
Mussel burly dosnt work as well near the mussel farms but kina burley works great.
Just as we feel less hungry in winter and tend to have shorter meals (time wise) I think the snapper are similar so using a general burley that works in spring/summer may be less tempting in winter?

May be just another of my weird ideas but hey, works for me
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote skidoggg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2016 at 11:22am
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Titanium
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Berley is king and so is night time ! Fishing can be hsrd during day in the shallows as fush are shy . This time of year as the crays and crabs go into soft shell the snaps will come in close to feed on them and early morning or evening in the black water are good but also after dark . Tides and bite times also have effect . More berley bags is definately an advantage . If u want to save $$ on berley make them go further. Buy a sack of pig or chicken pellets buy a cuple of oily berleys defrist em and mix with the pellets add some sand and then bag up a heap of berley bombs . Freeze em down ......
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 8:50am
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Titanium
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Generally  know you are sending the burley out right after 10 to 20 mins... when the 1st legal fish come in...30 mins get good fish
BUT this depends  are the fish on the bite?
Are u directing burley trail down to where fish actually are?
Is it falling thru the water column in a manner to bring the fish to where your lines are out the back?

And a wobbly pot doesnt work unless u are in some rather heavy swells.. in in carm waters a lot of bring up 1/2 to 1 m the drop 4 or 5 times to keep sending a consistent trail out.

Then water temps to consider...
I make our own burley put into 2L milk containers...and freeze.. I find 1 bomb lasts ideally between 30 to 40 mins...depending on current and water temp depends I I chop the whole container off or chop ut 1 or 2 sides

Most of our fishing is drift....and find drifting with a burley down is very effective on long drifts

 Also wobbly pots.. expensive to loose....
For a elcheapo collasable.. a plate of scrape steel around 150mm diam.. 3 or 4 holes around the edge.
A $14 black burely net...split it and re weave into tubes...tied at the bottom... makes 2 pot nets
drop the plate in , cable tie in each hole... and thread 2 or 3 about 10 gauge wire thru winding the ends to form a circle to keep the net shape.
Or something like a BMW suspension spring.. chop the top ring, the bottom of the spring is smaller and acts as a base.

Also dont use ropes to suspend the pot... in current far too much resistance and hangs way out the back... messing up lines or requires big weights to drop down.
 2.5 or 3mm braid from the haberdashery shop...about $45 for a reel of about 300 or 400 m  (forget length)
 Reel...$20 electric extension lead drum from mitre 10.. but keep washed and lubed with CRC or similar or after a few seasons will rust in the hub.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 9:52am
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Titanium
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Am inclined to think there is nothing wrong with the way you are deploying your berley & it is more a case of the fishing mysteriously becoming relatively abysmal over the past week ( see fishing reports sector )
 
We have been having consistently good catches, usually limits from the same locations before that, even without berley but on our trip out Thursday the results were pathetic ( see blank page thread in reports ) & everyone we spoke to had the same experience so if you scored 3 keepers then you probably did well.
 
It is a mystery to us as to where the fish have gone as there as barely any were showing on the sounder & if they were they were invariably sporadic tiny bites resulting in the occasional hookup on undersized snaps.
 
Reckon you would be just as well off to wait about a week or so until the fish return then resume using your normal berley technique.
 
Does anyone have any theories on where the fish go to when they disappear from their normal habitat ???????????????
 
Maybe it has something to do with their pre spawning rituals.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 10:13am
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Titanium
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Some interesting replies.
Rozboon - berley about 1.5m off the bottom. All frozen is going to take time to get started - which explains part of the half hour before bites - I don't think want it completely thawed as it would go quicker than necessary, but partly thawed should be faster starting. 
Barrie - berley is Pilchard& Bonito - both are oily which I assume is ideal.
Skidogg - agree berley is king! (Providing fish are there where the berley is). WHen fishing is easy, anyone can catch em,; but when its hard, berley makes a huge difference.  Expanding berley with some cheap bulk pellets - good idea I will experiment. But it would reduce the strength of the berley, so could reduce its attraction.
Steps - yeah without waves (which I try and avoid naturally), the wobbly pot isn't wobblying enough to release much berley - pumping it obviously helps but I get sick of that.
 
Brainstorming - what we want - a contraption that automatically releases berley at a pre-set rate. How about someone design this. Thought - sounds like a person eh, ie someone else (not me) whos job is to ladle gobs of berley off the stern.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 10:24am
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Titanium
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Oh, and something unrelated that bugged me. I was anchored there, and this huge 15m launch came directly towards me. Came to about 50m, that I didn't like. I waved my arms angrily, but he didn't take any notice. proceeded to drive straight across where I was berleying and fishing (between me and the foul). So this huge noisy shadow chugs over the fish that I was trying to cultivate. Which would have alarmed them.
Ive noticed that big launch drivers tend to not know much about fishing. That's no excuse though for not behaving courteously.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 10:27am
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Hey Bazza. Thanks, truth in what you say. Do you know when the fish are going to be back on the bite; if so, please let me know.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 11:02am
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Titanium
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Could it have been the approach to the full moon which sent the fish a bit quiet? Theory being that they feed during the night with better light, or just some other mystery in the natural world.
Also, the water temps are really cold, and my understanding is that the fishes' metabolism drops, leaving only very short bite times around dawn and dusk.

re berley: we get good results with salmon berley - but not all salmon berleys are equal. Some seem to glob together and barely distribute (Southern Baits brand), but the ITM Fishing Show branded ones are excellent. Give off a steady stream. You can actually see the oily slick well out the back.
IMHO some of the other berleys are a rip off, full of mussel shells etc. 
We are small boat fishos and I just use one of the blue plastic containers from the Warehouse weighed down with some lead. Seems to be ideal for the salmon in terms of hole size for distribution rate.
I usually cut a 1.5kg bomb in half and keep and eye on it to make sure it hasn't run out. give it a shake now and then if it's not choppy. Obviously in summer you chew through it faster than now, when the water is the coldest of the year.

Another point is that - interrelated to the fish metabolism slowing - you don't want to basically provide all they want to eat with too many big bits of berley or ripped up pillies etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 11:06am
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Titanium
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And just a last point re the depth.

My gut feeling is 1.5m from the bottom is too deep if the foul is 50m away and you reported not much current. I wonder if the berley was  hitting the bottom before it got to the reef?

And don't forget to move it up or down as the tide rises or falls, rather than leaving it in the same original rope length. 

you could try further up the water column next time.
Sometimes we have the basket only 1m from the surface, in the shallows near foul, other times near the bottom (if fishing open worm bed type flats).
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote veitnamcam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 11:30am
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Im no expert but yesterday I was fishing 19m and had one burly approx 5m deep and one on the surface.
Brought in plenty of gurnard a few blue cod and a few Terrys.
The 5meter deep one would have been probably 3-4 meters past the stern with the current even tho tied on the bow, sometimes I tie one on the anchor rope about half way down but this can be a pain if you might have to set anchor a couple of times to get the boat where you want it.

Point is even tho that even with burly well up off the bottom and im guessing 4-5kn current at peak it still sucks in the bottom feeders.

I get one burly out of the freezer the night before so it deploys rapidly,if not much current or swell pull it up and down fairly often and always seem to get a fish just after giving the burly a shake up......another downside of having on the anchor rope is you cant easily do this.
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