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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote burwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hanover Finance freezes cash
    Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 4:43pm
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Another bunch of muppet deposit holders will take a bath.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 4:56pm
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Good to see how swiftly our Beloved Labour Government has moved to counter the downturn, minimising the impact for all the families out there.

Very nice work Helen, very nice.

BTW: What's it like to be on a taxpayer guaranteed salary (and perks)? Must be kinda comforting during these tough times.
Nobody has ever come up with a great idea after a second bottle of water.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ThomasW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 5:34pm
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That is quite surprising because they were one of the stronger companies to start with, but with all of the fear in the market people desert even from the well managed one. . 

http://www.hanovergroup.co.nz/

Glad I have no money in finace companies at the moment.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Boulder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 5:58pm
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**** thats not good. Thankfully I have what little I have in the plain low interest old fashioned BANK


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dohboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 6:02pm
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Originally posted by Boulder Boulder wrote:

. Thankfully I have what little I have in the plain low interest old fashioned BANK


Has the TAS finally court up to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Boulder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 6:10pm
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Originally posted by Dohboy Dohboy wrote:

Originally posted by Boulder Boulder wrote:

. Thankfully I have what little I have in the plain low interest old fashioned BANK


Has the TAS finally court up to you.
NO   Wink and watch this space mate.but i do have it spread around a bit to minimize domestic scrutiny.Tongue


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote burwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 8:41pm
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Some sheet will hit the fan as our beloved tv celebrity was singing their praises only 3 days ago-directotrs knew then they were fk'd and they still fishing for some cash. Whoever runs the company should do some time and lose a few teeth. The chap has a very nice gouse on Paratai Drive. Sickening-and teh law will say  ooh damn shame sorry start another next week Hanover Finance the second.

 

If anyone you know has money that is not in a MAIN BANK get the money out NOW! I am in the industry and many will fall

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote burwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 8:44pm
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Originally posted by Militaris Militaris wrote:

That is quite surprising because they were one of the stronger companies to start with, but with all of the fear in the market people desert even from the well managed one. . 

http://www.hanovergroup.co.nz/

Glad I have no money in finace companies at the moment.



 
Do you know it was well managed. People deserting? Some people stupid may they be will lose everything-I wouldnt call any of these companies well run.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 8:52pm
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Originally posted by Militaris Militaris wrote:

That is quite surprising because they were one of the stronger companies to start with, but with all of the fear in the market people desert even from the well managed one. . 

http://www.hanovergroup.co.nz/

Glad I have no money in finace companies at the moment.



 
Surpising???? LOL It was about as obvious as the tide coming in after 6 hours of going out.
Warned my wifes grandparents to get out of that one about 6 months ago. "oh but they are offering me 10.5% interest' they said lol Hmmm you wonder why they are offering rates so high!
 
They are far from well managed. Risk management is the key nowadays and quite frankly they just don't have it where it counts!
 
Burwood - I'm in the industry too and been involved in a few of the collapses we've seen over the past 3 or 4 years. Things are in a pretty sorry state at the mo aren't they!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote burwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 9:17pm
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JK-ringing in my ears is 'ooh the interest rates are so good' ffs are people that stupid. A friends mother 'had' money invested in a finance company so ni enquired which one and she said 'no idea my advisor does it all'  good god.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 9:25pm
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Oh dear....... the reputation of advisors has gone too. I'd trust the fella at the bustop more than I would any advisor or broker at the moment.
 
I feel for those people though, the older generation who have these funds tucked away where they think it is safe as its where it has been for the past 20 years without issue and they are quite happy with the quarterly or semi annual interest payments which seem to be increasing over time for 'no real reason' at all apart from 'rewarding' them for there continued support.
 
It was bloody hard to twist Nana's arm and convince her to get out while she could. She rang us tonight when she had heard the news and was feeling guilty as she was one of those contributing to their downfall.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kezza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 9:28pm
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Some bloke on Talkback this arvo whom obviously knew his elbow from his arse (unlike Militaris) was saying that Hanover was missing 5 of the 5 principles (don't ask me what these are/where) of 'the' investment gamble that would enable a company as such to survive a down turn and bounce back with gusto.....and seemed to think there was at least another 20 out there that faired in the same light and were not looking good on the longevity front.....all a bit beyond me, but I've only just sorted out EFT POS
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 9:42pm
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You are right Kezza (well the fella is)

NZ Herald ran an article a few weeks back on what to look out for when sorting the good from the bad in the finance companies. The link is here http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10520151
 
In regards to Hanover, yep it scored 0 out 5...
 
Hanover Finance: Backed by rich-listers Eric Watson and Mark Hotchin, who have shown no signs of injecting capital in the past year. The owners have withdrawn $99.8m in dividends from Hanover Finance in the past two years. Hanover is exposed to real estate development and relies almost completely on debenture funding. It has no local bank funding line and has used vulture fund Fortress Credit for funding. Hanover has a BB+ long-term credit rating from Fitch, which is not considered investment grade. Hanover has a B short-term Fitch rating, which relates to obligations of less than 12 months and under the ratings indicates a minimal capacity for timely payment of commitments.
 
All the signs....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote burwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 9:46pm
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Kezza-during the boom many lent large sums to individual projects so not diversified enough plus some rates were 17%-no issue in a boom market but the deck of cards came crashing down. If you have one large exposure that goes bust and the market gets wind of it there can be a rush on withdrawals. If the loans are many years you may not have the cashflow to repay deposits-game over. Poor risk management as JK notes. Greed and irrational behaviour coupled with lieing bastid 'advisors' who lined their pockets. the usual suspects will start another company soon enough.
 
To illustrate Northern Rock in the UK was a well run large mortgage provider-a hedge fund started circulating falsehoods and deposit holders withdrew 2 billion quid in 5 days-Northern Rock was a sopund comapny but couldnt cope with that. Billions were lost and some hedge funds made a killing-greed at it's worst.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ThomasW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 9:48pm
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The original finance companies which went under had their investments focused around selling loans for used cars which when times got tough the default rate started to grow. Hanover had their investments mainly in real estate (admitally long term) which do not permanently depreciate in value in the same way as used cars so allowed a higher degree of certainly over the investment.  When a company loans money for 5+ years but its revenue is made up of short term deposits it is a disaster waiting to happen when a run on investments occured. 

When you could get 10% return from the likes of South Canterbury or 8.4% from Rabo investors were foolish to keep investing when the economy slowed like it did but while the market was bullish its model had merits. 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote burwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 10:03pm
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It isn't as simple as saying real estate doesn't depreciate. It does if you pay to much and on a typical deal the finance company could lend 90% or hold a second mortgage.

 

JK-watson lives in the uk now-he took a bath on that appliance retailing chain so may need the $$ and his x wife is no doubt still caning his wallet  lol

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Moocha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 10:07pm
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Originally posted by burwood burwood wrote:

 

 his x wife is no doubt still caning his wallet  lol



Shes caning more than that if that BMW I saw her fall out of the other week is anything to go by.....bless her WinkLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ThomasW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 10:11pm
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Real estate does depreciate, but it rarely permanently loses all value. The trend is for land value to increase over time. Compared with used cars which eventually only have scrap value. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Moocha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 10:20pm
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Not strictly true , seen how much some of the early Holdens and classic Fords are now going for ????

Tried to find a Holden Sandman Panel van ever ? rarer and more expensive than rocking horse shyte but then there are exceptions to every statement I guess
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote burwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 10:22pm
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we arent debating the mechanics of various asset classes-the point is these fk'rs knew months ago they were in poo and they went fishing for more cash. I see no difference-cars, land, gold not where is should be (ray smith). How about a cliff top house and the land falls into the sea. No depreciation you say  hmm
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