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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corokid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Haines Hunter V198 repower/transom mod?
    Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 10:41pm
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I apperently have one of the very few hulls that were sold new from factory as an inboard engine spec. 
As a runout special to make way for new model these were sold off with a pod/outboard set up and go well.
The pod has been shortened a little which improved performance and handling even more.
Fitted out with hardtop and a few luxuries , fridge , cooker , toilet ect so possibly heavier than standard. However have been informed the earlier hulls by sea craft (or similar) were even heavier built.
Anyways,  presently powered with 96 Mercury 150 EFI 2 stroke , fitted with 5blade High Five prop and lento trim tabs  . Initially thought this being bottom of ideal power range , surprisingly goes very well.
Low hours 450 . Pops up on the plane nicely and makes max revs no problem. The 150hp in the 2.5 block are known to be a strong motor suitable for heavish boats and appears so. Weight 197kg.
As plan to get into a bit of gamefishing , more than likely next season , few trips to barrier with overnight stays a later model motor would be preferred.
Ideally 4 stroke as any fumes will be more noticeable with hardtop , alot of idling and trolling. As already well documented the compromise being weight . Checking out specs the 175hp suzuki at @220kg , the 200hp not too much heavier.These being new motors and 25k its a hefty capital investment . Checking out second hand options in suzuki , honda and yamaha 175 to 200hp your pushing 260kg.

Realise I am sort of answering my own questions so was wondering if any on here with v198 and 4 strokes or big old 2 strokes of these sort of weights might be able to offer there observations. It is going to be a reasonable investment either way so want to get it right first time. Look forward to the boat show so Ican check out all the latest options under one roof, whilst keeping an eye out on the second hand market.
Will try and find a photo that shows how she sits now. Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corokid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 6:55pm
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OKConfused
What about a 150hp 4stroke , just in case a good 2nd hand one comes along. Anyone been on one or similar size/weight/vee hull with 150hp 4/.
thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ohsoslow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 7:07pm
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Without trying to sound like steps, a 150 will be fine if you prop it right.. And don't expect epic performance.. The ideal motor would be the 150hp merc 4 stroke..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 8:21am
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Just a quick note that the Zuk 150 and 175 are the same block. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 8:38am
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Sound like me?
Sry
the 1st thing u need to do is establish the loaded weight of the boat.. all up.. including ppl
Then with that know what your expectations are for WoT and cruise speed.
Do the numbers required to achieve this
Then along with the hp/rpm curve match the prop hp requirements to the power curve graph... and add another 15 to 20%.
Also take into consideration the extra weight on the stern of a 4s and how that may effect lifting and maintaining the boat over the bow wave...travelling flat or bow in the air....a good indicator of this is when someone moves to the rear of the boat.. how the boat then gets up and how it maintains trim?
Without crunching actual numbers.. but comparing to some similar boats of that period another 25 hp could very well make substantial difference in performance and economy.. more so than going from 2s to 4s
keep in mind changing models/ brands also changes gear box ratios which also means a change of prop.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Black Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 9:35am
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(A few years ago now) I spent many happy hours fishing out of my Uncles V198.  It started with 1986 235hp Evinrude and later re-powered with a 225hp Yamaha – I saw it on TM last year with a 200Hp Yamaha on the back now.

 

My guess is that a 150hp would be the minimum for your V198 with the added weight / windage of the hardtop.  But you don't need 225hp - his boat was a rocket ship with the 225hp Yamaha!

Also, more importantly I found the V198 did not like weight at the back - we tried a couple of ideas for game fishing, firstly a 15hp 4/stroke Aux to troll with and then replaced it with a Live Bait tank in place of the Aux bracket.  The weight down the back drastically changed the handling of the boat.  Being a deep Vee the V198 needs a bit of power to get up on the plane, and with the extra weight we added at the back, you really had to lean on the throttle, trolling it was horrible – bow in the air and wallowing around and any extra weight (people) to the back, waves were slopping up the motor and filling the outboard well. Needless to say both ideas were aborted after a couple of weeks.

If it was me – I reckon a 175hp Optimax or maybe a 200hp (2.6) Etec would work well for you.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 10:43am
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Corokid from what Black Max says based on his experience sounds like extra weight at back is going to be an issue - can you shift some other weight forward at same time as repower - shift fuel/battery/storage?
 
Re steps advice - I have been talking to him off here re repowering my boat - I find his ideas valuable - is a bit of a pain calculating weights and numbers but you do it once and get it right and the enjoyment lasts a long time...and my experience is that you should carefully consider all factors including loading of boat, what you want from it before shelling out the cash to avoid disappointment.
 
What is the saying " act in haste repent at leisure"
 
Good luck
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Betty Boop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 11:12am
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This has been a successful set up for me. Underfloor I have a 300litre fuel tank and carry my oil resevour and twin batteries, in the transom. Usual anchor /chain etc in the forepeak and associated gear in the cabin.Rods,tackle, ice in the cockpit.
She handles well at all speads and planes at zero trim. Trims out nicely at high speed too Wink
Backing ups also no major problem however conditions should bear skippers prudent considerations and a good bilge pump/s Geek
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corokid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 1:46pm
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Thanks guys
Some good solid advise there.

Yes already thinking about relocating batteries forward , under the port side king/queen seat console. I am running three batteries , the third dedicated for the 12v fridge only. So definite improvement.

Probably run with the existing motor for a while ,while I weigh up my options , although have not had this boat for long I may have to consider doing what a lot of folk do and upgrade the whole rig to suit my requirements.Will be getting bit of a windfall in 18 months so may hold on for a bit.

Walu , That bracket looks the business , looks like about 600mm extension?? Probably what mine was originally and has been shortened to 450mm , obviously to bring weight forward , the con being motor can't tilt fully up there fore a custom towing support came with it .

Steps , although I am familiar with the theory and calculations involved to obtain power requirements I don't practise it within my field of marine engineering and would have to drag a few old text books out . I will take a stab in the dark and say it would come out very close to 120hp . However as you say add 20% . Thankyou for taking the time to post the info, I have noted you always willing to help out others with similar questions .

Have not ruled out a later model 2 stroke in following order yamaha hpdi , Optimax , not sure about etec yet. Looks like you can get a reasonably low hours , under 10 year old for less than half price of new.
90% of use will be fairly local so fuel consumption not a major factor .

Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Betty Boop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 3:27pm
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PS....
My engine has later cowling and is a carburated OIS engine not the FICH. It's way cheaper on parts than e-tech  and gives almost similar fuel consumption as the e-tech. I do my own maintenance and use a local dealer for diagnostics when required.....saves $$$$Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 5:23pm
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150 seems a bit light Coro. Id go a 200 min.

Nice hulls mate, nice hulls. :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corokid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 7:02pm
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

150 seems a bit light Coro. Id go a 200 min.

Nice hulls mate, nice hulls. :-)
Certainly are Fizz ,  have heard of  more than one person that regret selling theirs , even one that traded for newer model HHConfused
The full transom set up a big positive , no outboard well lacking in freeboard . And its not beigeLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 1:09pm
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Yes already thinking about relocating batteries forward

I have asked around about why this is not done as often ..and either get a blank look or some answer that just doesn't add up...no experiance in doing this in boats...automotive, yes.
With automotive there are several issues.
1st is voltage drop under loads.. ie the initial milli sec current draw when starter motor engages, and also when starter is engaged....your normal battery leads need to be upgraded significantly and they are not cheap.
You will not see any voltage drop under normal loads .. but a V8 starter will pull something like 900 even over 1000 amps in the initial engage then drop back.... Out board starters do not pull these sorts of numbers but its likely to be still significant ....either of these means a significant drop in voltage.. drop in voltage means things like gps/ sounders may close down in the same manner dirty terminals or a battery on the way out does

The other issue is insulation / chaffing/ fire
And finally when under charge, batteries give off hydrogen gas....so ventilation is a requirement....but unlike gases like Propane/ lpg / fuel, that lay in the bulges, hydrogen is lighter than air.. lot lighter.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 2:04pm
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In some ways it makes sense to have batteries forward.  The equipment most sensitive to voltage drop is located near the helm - fish finders and other electronics.  Voltage drop for these should be kept to less than 3%.  Having the batteries close to these reduces cable thickness required to keep voltage drop within acceptable limits.

If ventilating a battery compartment it should be vented out near the top of the compartment.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Motorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 7:13pm
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The rear of the boat is subjected to less impact which can have an adverse effect on battery life, which is generally why batteries are placed in the stern.. Newer battery technology may have superior construction methods to offset/mitigate possible damage from impacts.
 Also as mentioned above cable lengths can be shorter if battery is located closer to the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Betty Boop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 7:25pm
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Originally posted by Motorhead Motorhead wrote:

The rear of the boat is subjected to less impact which can have an adverse effect on battery life, which is generally why batteries are placed in the stern.. Newer battery technology may have superior construction methods to offset/mitigate possible damage from impacts.
 Also as mentioned above cable lengths can be shorter if battery is located closer to the engine.

I agree. ..I recall also try to keep the center of balance marginally aft of hull center.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corokid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2015 at 12:19pm
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Thanks for the input and advice fullas.
Have edited post title rather than another thread as both topics at the same end.LOL
Thinking of tidying up the transom , the present bracket is galvanised steel as opposed to stainless , solid and well built but not ideal. Something like a portifino set up with step ,bracket and extra flotation incorporated. Maybe even built in tuna tubes and live bait tank.
Have the time and engineering related skills , not a fibreglass expert or boatbuilder. So maybe require assistance of a boat builder .
Interested to hear any advise , anyone undertaken this or had it done to similar hull?
Would existing transom which appears sound have to be removed or could you build the potifino set up then tie it in somehow ?
Will incorporate this with new motor with extra flotation compensating for weight of a 200 4 stroke.

Yes I am weighing my options up , looking at capital investment depending on motor spend and transom mod wont be cheap. What else can i get for that money . With the existing hardtop and layout she would be a sweet rig , i like the comfort for overnighting .
A photo of present set up.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Betty Boop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2015 at 12:39pm
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My viscount was professionally done and I have many photos that I can e-mail direct if you wish.
l'm not a boat builder however retired tech/composite advisor for Nuplex Resins and can advise on suitable lamination regarding the transom.......
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corokid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2015 at 12:55pm
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Originally posted by Walu Walu wrote:

My viscount was professionally done and I have many photos that I can e-mail direct if you wish.
l'm not a boat builder however retired tech/composite advisor for Nuplex Resins and can advise on suitable lamination regarding the transom.......
Thanks mate
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2015 at 1:15pm
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I spent quite a while looking into doing just this on a boat I had a few years ago.  I started out thinking of a fibreglass one, like this http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/parts-accessories/other/auction-878539598.htm  but that is quite an expensive way to go, especially as like you I don't have fibreglass experience.  I ended up deciding to fabricate one instead, in fact had I gone ahead I would have copied the one that Walu has on his boat.
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