Would it make a suitable tow wagon !!!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote funandfunction Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 6:59pm
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Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

I guess the best aspect of electric boat motors are that it is a reasonably constant load. With a near flat torque curve an electric motor really suits a boat. The reason I go for the hybrid option is it is easy to jump start a petrol engine

The load on any boat motor varies exponentially with the rpm of the propellor so definitely  not constant or near constant unless you mean when you drive everywhere at one speed.
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The big problem with an electric powered boat will be range. Ok if all you do is blast out and back fishing, but if you are into game fishing i.e. trolling, electric is going to be a real problem, as you will need to have a massive amount of batteries to provide you with enough power for a full days trolling plus contingency (at least 25%). Also at least with a petrol/diesel engine if you are going for an extended trip you can take jerry cans of spare fuel, can't really take spare batteries at $1000s each. 

Also fundamental problem with EV's at the moment is if we suddenly have 200,000 new EV's in the country where are we going to get the additional power every night to charge them, especially during cold winter nights or hot sticky summer nights. The government just says we will find the power, but where from, they don't have those answers.
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Originally posted by funandfunction funandfunction wrote:

Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

I guess the best aspect of electric boat motors are that it is a reasonably constant load. With a near flat torque curve an electric motor really suits a boat. The reason I go for the hybrid option is it is easy to jump start a petrol engine

The load on any boat motor varies exponentially with the rpm of the propellor so definitely  not constant or near constant unless you mean when you drive everywhere at one speed.
Yes, mostly boats travel at a set 'cruising speed, getting there generally doesn't take too long to get on the plane. Agree that trolling and 5 knot stuff would be different. 

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We will put some of that theory, smudge, into some real numbers then.
Lets take an ave 6m planing hull
Say ball park gross weight on water 1800/2000kg.. say 1900kg
Co efficient around the 195/ 205 mark.. say 200
Cruise 28/30 mpg well non bar powered.. say 29 mph
 That works out to around 90 hp at the prop.

Now you can convert that into KW  then Kw/H  and  battery storage, keeping in mind batteries are not able to maintain power to flat or min storage maintained by maintenance systems.

Lets not also forget this doesnt include the hp required to get over the bow wave, reserve power to power thru small chop at cruise speed...this is just flat water... nor does it include lights, sounders etc.
 Nor does it take into account a full fish bin(s) and/or a game fish on board or being towed home.

Then  throw in trolling or just going thru restricted areas say between ramp and open water,  on a planing hull used inefficiently as a displacement or semi displacement. (an area I have only basic and at most 'concept' knowledge)






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Evoy electric 150 hp 1000kg vessel they estimate 38 miles.worth the effort??
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I think the first move towards green legislation for boating would be to target 2 strokes first. It wouldn't be easy because boats aren't registered, only the trailer is.

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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

We will put some of that theory, smudge, into some real numbers then.
Lets take an ave 6m planing hull
Say ball park gross weight on water 1800/2000kg.. say 1900kg
Co efficient around the 195/ 205 mark.. say 200
Cruise 28/30 mpg well non bar powered.. say 29 mph
 That works out to around 90 hp at the prop.

Now you can convert that into KW  then Kw/H  and  battery storage, keeping in mind batteries are not able to maintain power to flat or min storage maintained by maintenance systems.

Lets not also forget this doesnt include the hp required to get over the bow wave, reserve power to power thru small chop at cruise speed...this is just flat water... nor does it include lights, sounders etc.
 Nor does it take into account a full fish bin(s) and/or a game fish on board or being towed home.

Then  throw in trolling or just going thru restricted areas say between ramp and open water,  on a planing hull used inefficiently as a displacement or semi displacement. (an area I have only basic and at most 'concept' knowledge)

So what were the real numbers? Clearly the bigger the load the more power requirements are. I don't deny that. They were just my thoughts. I didn't realise I was matching wits against Sir Isaac Newton. 
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Just to further get us off track on Bazza's post. An old slow displacement hull may suit future electric power? Steps' next door neighbours dad has a displacement hull. I think it has 40hp pushing it along at 8 knots. Just done his 1000th Manukau bar crossing on it. Would that be a more constant load than say a planing hull? I'd expect so, maybe they would suit electric I don't know but I can't see that style of boat becoming too popular.It's hardly a market that is going to give lots of savings either.
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Probably a more Einstienian calculation than Newtonian Smudge  Wink

and although the variable for fuel weight with petrol or diesel motors is a small part of their displacement and range calculation, I suspect that the weight of batteries increasing as you strive to increase range is the real killer for electric marine propulsion at the moment, other than in very controlled applications.

Hope we are helping you Bazza?  Shocked
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Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Just to further get us off track on Bazza's post. An old slow displacement hull may suit future electric power? Steps' next door neighbours dad has a displacement hull. I think it has 40hp pushing it along at 8 knots. Just done his 1000th Manukau bar crossing on it. Would that be a more constant load than sa is that a planing hull? I'd expect so, maybe they would suit electric I don't know but I can't see that style of boat becoming too popular.It's hardly a market that is going to give lots of savings either.

One disadvantage of going offshore across a bar in an electric boat smudge
is that it would need an ultra long extension lead to keep it plugged into a 
3 pt socket at home !

I would have thought being a qualified electrician that would have been obvious !
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So what were the real numbers? Clearly the bigger the load the more power requirements are. I don't deny that. They were just my thoughts. I didn't realise I was matching wits against Sir Isaac Newton.

No .. You are the electrician. going from hp to kw  and kw hrs etc  and the draw on batteries etc.. Thats your dept .. not matching wits at all
The newton /crouch stuff is mine

Evoy electric 150 hp 1000kg vessel they estimate 38 miles.worth the effort??

 Thats interesting PJC,  damn good info there.
Basically its a 120 hp, range @ cruise 25 kn range 18nm.
Total weight 500kg
Cost before shipping tax etc around $115K

So say take the example 6m hull above @1900kg , motors about the same weight add the batteries 400kg now 2300kg @ 120hp.. thats gives around a WoT of 27mph
Definitely not suitable for a plaining hull boat, even smaller ..

Displacement hull application, now thats a very different story and application altogether... Thats more about beam and hull length than weight.

One disadvantage of going offshore across a bar in an electric boat smudge
is that it would need an ultra long extension lead to keep it plugged into a 
3 pt socket at home !

That may very well not be the case Bazza with displacement. Range would get out to 100/150 miles quite easy I would imagine.

Probably a more Einstienian calculation than Newtonian Smudge

Or just picked up a few basic maths stuff at high school m8..
 Those guys do the rocket science stuff, we, just fill numbers in a simple formula and use a calculator..
go google crouch formula and do the numbers your self....
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

So what were the real numbers? Clearly the bigger the load the more power requirements are. I don't deny that. They were just my thoughts. I didn't realise I was matching wits against Sir Isaac Newton.

No .. You are the electrician. going from hp to kw  and kw hrs etc  and the draw on batteries etc.. Thats your dept .. not matching wits at all
The newton /crouch stuff is mine

Yes, I am an electrician by trade. You should take the time to listen sometimes Wink
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All I did was work out the min hp requirements for a petrol outboard along the linesof the previous posts chatting.
 As it electrics under discussion and be it petrol , hamsters in a wheel , or electric in this case, and you being the  electrician here, you could convert that hp and time and required  battery storage into electrical requirements..
 Nothing else.
So rather than go all nancy, why not just do the conversions and lets see if substantiate the comments in previous posts. and leave the bs behind...

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Attention All Posters On This  Thread:
Please turn on personal sense of humour  control to " full witty"  before replying.
It has come to the attention  of management that some of you have been using  " half witty " on this thread and this is insufficient for this level of discussion.
Thank you.
That is all.
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

All I did was work out the min hp requirements for a petrol outboard along the linesof the previous posts chatting.
 As it electrics under discussion and be it petrol , hamsters in a wheel , or electric in this case, and you being the  electrician here, you could convert that hp and time and required  battery storage into electrical requirements..
 Nothing else.
So rather than go all nancy, why not just do the conversions and lets see if substantiate the comments in previous posts. and leave the bs behind...


I've had enough Steps.I don't think you realise how rude, overbearing and condescending you are. Take a short break. See you in a week.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Turnright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 4:05pm
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About bloody time smudge, are you sure a week is long enough for steps holiday????
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how many regular contributors has Steps driven away from these forums do you think
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Originally posted by Turnright Turnright wrote:

About bloody time smudge, are you sure a week is long enough for steps holiday????

I have given him every opportunity, including my attempts to lead him on a voyage of self discovery but that hasn't worked. Yeah a week is enough. If he decides to come back I'm more than happy to assist him on how to improve his on-line behaviours. As I said I don't think he realises just how he portrays himself. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 10:11am
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Originally posted by Bounty Hunter Bounty Hunter wrote:

how many regular contributors has Steps driven away from these forums do you think

TBH I generally skip over the long posts trying to justify a position etc. and not comment on those threads.  So that coupled with the fact I seem to have to switch to Private mode in the browser to be able to log in has impacted my posting.
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