What would they say in NZ?

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    Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 6:46pm
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So this pic was taken today. 20 ks out at a Fad in Vtu.
Yes - it was a primo day sea wise (I spent about 8 hrs there).
But this dude is there every day I am (and prob some I am not - because of weather conds).
Last few times have been challenging, sea/wind wise.
I can guarantee;
no lifejacket, radio, flares, bilge pump, etc etc. Yes a cellphone (no coverage) - they flash them in the dark before you run them over. I was there at 3.45 am. Cellphones going off every minute or so. I have nav lights - easy for them.
But what would the media and Coastguard etc say if this bloke did this in NZ?
And yet you hear of less boating mishaps with these guys than in NZ. For one thing they don't drink (piss) on their boat.
But they are brave buggers and earn every $ they get.
Alan
PS - Congrats Grant, site seems to work great.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 7:46pm
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True that Alan. only 100 years ago people travelled the world over without any of that stuff, what were once adventurers are now idiots
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On site 20k off shore at 03:45 that's a 02:30 start or there abouts. You're keener than me. 
Do you get fish at night on the fads trolling? 
I'm guessing they never turn off the engine cause that's where a few of my "issues" have come from. 


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 7:55pm
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We were on a broad lead heading up the coast from Auckland, in a 30 ft ketch, south of Tutakaka. Had a 20/25 kt easterly blowing. We were all quite excited as we had spotted a large shark surfing down a large wave a short time before. Probably about 15 km off the coast, when we spotted a 14/16 ft open deck clinker dinghy.

 This was several years ago, It was jammed with people all fishing, not a life jacket in sight. We all looked at each other, and said "Oh my God". They all just waved (with one hand the other was fishing), as we steamed past. 
If you always do, what you've always done. You will always get, what you have always got
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 7:59pm
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I guess the point of the post is this I wonder if having the safety net of a gold standard Coastgaurd makes people careless - less personal responsibility. Get the cellphone out and all will be fine.
Where I fish in NZ we don't count on them for anything. I could not even call them. I can recall 2 incidents we wondered if we needed them - in 30 yrs. As it turns out we didn't - sorted ourselves - incl a boat tipped up in the rocks further up the coast in a crap sea. Should not be out there really.
We did get to the point of forewarning S&R they may be needed - we were not going to leave it til dark then call to look for them. But we found them.
But the stuff you read in NZ media near daily of boating stuff ups you have to wonder - why?
These blokes have FAR less resources, and need less in terms of boating help. I have towed the odd outrigger home - usually some poor sod battling 20 kts and 1 m chop and you think - why not. I have a 90 merc on the back.
But they do remarkably well under conditions that in NZ someone would be called an idiot for .
Idiots they are not - these blokes are super savvy.
So what is the difference in NZ? The media woke-ism or the twats that take to sea.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 8:07pm
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Originally posted by krow krow wrote:

On site 20k ..
Doug - not my cup of tea either. I normally avoid it - been turning up at daybreak. Travel in dark - get there at daylight. But the only fish being caught are in the dark. The fishing is dismal. Cleaned out basically. So you do what you must. Full moon (primo cycle - only comes around 1 per month unfortunately) about to end. Nil wind day (rare on full moon). Alarm set for 4 am. Woke at 2,30 - may as well go fishing.
They often turn the engine off (saves $1 fuel). And their service cycles are..........
But they get home. Always. Either Merc 2 S or Yam 4S 30-40 Hp.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 8:15pm
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Originally posted by Mr Moritz Mr Moritz wrote:

We were on a broad lead heading up the coast from Auckland, in a 30 ft ketch, south of Tutakaka. Had a 20/25 kt easterly blowing. We were all quite excited as we had spotted a large shark surfing down a large wave a short time before. Probably about 15 km off the coast, when we spotted a 14/16 ft open deck clinker dinghy.

 This was several years ago, It was jammed with people all fishing, not a life jacket in sight. We all looked at each other, and said "Oh my God". They all just waved (with one hand the other was fishing), as we steamed past. 
That doesn't sound flash. But these blokes (and me ) would not be 20k out in 25 knt. I have come home in 20 knt, but I sure never went out in it, and I doubt these guys would. But the seas I do go out in and think 'should I be here', there is always a few of these blokes already there - fishing in the dark.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2021 at 8:30pm
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Savvy they might be but it is a little scary.

Here in WA if you are over 5nm from the mainland you are required to have a:

·         Recreational Skipper's Ticket

·         Bilge pump / bailer

·         Fire extinguisher

·         Anchor and rope

·         Life jacket

·         Two in date red flares and two in date orange flares

·         EPIRB

·         Two parachute flares

·         Marine radio

Your boat would be required to have navigation lights and if your fishing then you must also possess a Recreational Fishing Licence.  Without doubt we live in a different world.

What's the depth at the FAD Alan?

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Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

True that Alan. only 100 years ago people travelled the world over without any of that stuff, what were once adventurers are now idiots
True .... but after sailing out from the other side of the world the accepted attrition rate within sight of their destination at ports like Hokitika, Kaipara etc were horrendous ... something like one or more ship per week were lost. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2021 at 3:25pm
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FA - that list of requirements is a looong way off. Yes - different worlds. Which is my point really. And I wonder why there are so few mishaps in their world while our CG get constant call outs - often for stupid stuff. I would hear if these blokes had tipped out etc, or failed to come home.
I know of two incidents over near a decade. One was not a banana boat (chinese guys in a decent fishing boat). Went out in ridiculous conditions from where I am. I was here at the time and recall the weather. They tipped up, and dead luck they survived - one swam to a rocky shore, one drifted away with upturned boat. And found at dark. Total stupidity. My kiwi charter mate has the boat now - was using for charters pre covid. And one banana boat came to grief during a nearby island crossing - short hop. Not sure of details but some kids drowned I think.
I can't help think that because most have access to CG, they take less responsibility than if they thought they were on their own once they left shore.
I have a back up steering system in my boat in Vtu. I had it fail once at the Fad - 20 k out. Managed to pull the steering box apart and sort enough steering to get home. So I figured I needed to plug that gap. Made a tiller system that bolts to the steering yoke of the motor. It stays in the boat all the time.
I have had the steering fail on my identical rig in NZ too. This time the internal cable separated with no warning. Managed to get home sitting on the transom cradling the motor at idle. LUCKILY I was only about 1k offshore and a rare day with surf about 0.5m. Could have been 40k out, or coming home over a 2m surf.
But I have not made a similar steering tiller for that boat. Why not? I have no explanation - so I better do one when I get back. It works very well.
The Fads are in about 800m of water.
Regards
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2021 at 3:54pm
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[/QUOTE]
That doesn't sound flash. But these blokes (and me ) would not be 20k out in 25 knt. I have come home in 20 knt, but I sure never went out in it, and I doubt these guys would. But the seas I do go out in and think 'should I be here', there is always a few of these blokes already there - fishing in the dark.
Alan
[/QUOTE]

If they go out in the dark & have no gps or whatever ... how do they manage to find the fad/s ?????
Scored a much needed hair cut this morning so now on the way to Mitre 10 to take back the hedge trimmer !!
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Wow, FAD in 800m.  That's deep compared to here in WA.
I have an interest in bathymetry datasets / information and would like to have a look at the structure available to you.  Can you give me the GPS coordinates of where you launch from?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2021 at 5:57pm
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Used to take staff out fishing in lagoon Friday afternoon and return after dark. No GPS, marks, lights or radio and plenty of coral outcrops. Never ran aground, could smell the frangapani on the little deserted islands on dark nights if you got too close.
If you always do, what you've always done. You will always get, what you have always got
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2021 at 6:28pm
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Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:


That doesn't sound flash. But these blokes (and me ) would not be 20k out in 25 knt. I have come home in 20 knt, but I sure never went out in it, and I doubt these guys would. But the seas I do go out in and think 'should I be here', there is always a few of these blokes already there - fishing in the dark.
Alan
[/QUOTE]

If they go out in the dark & have no gps or whatever ... how do they manage to find the fad/s ?????
[/QUOTE]
Bazza, I would say one or two have a hand held GPS. The rest follow. But they have eyes like cats for seeing in the dark.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2021 at 6:38pm
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Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

Wow, FAD in 800m.  That's deep compared to here in WA.
I have an interest in bathymetry datasets / information and would like to have a look at the structure available to you.  Can you give me the GPS coordinates of where you launch from?
FA, the shallow, close in Fads (2 currently, which don't fish so well)  are in 5-600m. I spend ages looking at bathy charts.
Tomorrow I will send you co-ords of the one I am fishing, (and the only one seemingly holding fish-what there are of them). 
I will also take a pic of the bathy chart I have for the locality, and hopefully a screen shot of my GPS for that area. That won't work too well - my screen has developed some smudge factor since last used. Currently trying to find a replacement. But my Fad marks range over a radius of about 1.5km. So it can be very hard to find. Especially in the dark - forget it - rely in the local boys. And sometimes you just can't find it - gone under water with the current. Just a string of floats. I have about 50 marks for this Fad.
I have a pic of a Fad somewhere. When I find it, will post.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2021 at 7:16pm
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OK - took a while to find it - in a weird place in my computer.
Here is a pic of a Fad. Courtesy of Japanese Govt.
Also here is a pic I like.  Same file. We were off fishing and shot past these poor souls paddling to a near island to tend their garden. My conscience got me and I doubled back and offered them the help of a Merc 90. They were so grateful and wanted to know what time we come back. They would wait with some stuff from the garden.  I politely declined. We had no idea and I don't want to take their food.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2021 at 8:12pm
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I think you may have posted the FAD pic previously on here.  Great second pic.

The problem with most bathy charts is that they don't show a lot of detail due to contour spacing being at say 20m intervals in depths over 100m deep.  What you want to source is the raw survey data in its native format and then have the software that shows the contours at spacings you nominate.  Setting the contour increments at 1m uncovers many potential deep drop locations that don't show on standard bathy charts.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2021 at 8:30pm
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FA - you have no idea how bad the bathy charts are here.
I will take a pic of a few spots tomorrow - where the fads usually are. They show mounds. The current Fad I fish is known as 366. The GPS spot I give you will be close to that - a mound at 366m, from around 800m. My sounder (600w 50 Khz) can find bottom at 500m easy. It finds fish at 3-400m. I use it for bottom fishing at that depth. It can never find any bottom at 366. The charter guys with their 1 Kw say it is 800m. The surrounding area on the chart is 800m. There is another spot where we had a Fad - I will try and mark. We called it 393 - because the chart says there is a mound at 393m. Same story. There is a mark close in at 79m - a pinnacle. Would be a great bottom fishing spot. Have spent hrs looking for it - my sounder can't find it. How can a lump disappear? Then I am told everyone else has looked for it. I will mark another area - a ridge that comes up from around 600m to 150m. About 2km long, 1 Km wide.  Has to be primo bottom and game fish spot. Spent hrs going over it, sounder found nothing. So one day I am over it and dropping my elec reel rod with 1 kg lead sinker. My kiwi charter mate comes cruising by and is perplexed enough with charter on board to double back and ask what am I doing? Looking for bottom. Good luck.
I gave up when elec reel said somewhere between 4-500m.
Basically I think many of the 'mounds' were sonar aberrations on early gear on single passes. Some of the compilation data  dates back to WW2. The holes seem accurate. If you find a depression it seems correct.
I have gone 20 k out looking for a spot on the chart - only to find it is not there. I think they must have recorded a lot of thermocline aberrations or similar.
Regards
Alan  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2021 at 9:26pm
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Alan the anomalies you speak of are not uncommon on bathy charts.  Charts show lumps / holes that are just not there.  It's no different here in WA.  On the Navionics charts there is a great looking rise off Exmouth in the NW of WA.  Years ago I searched and searched for it.  It's simply not there.  A similar discussion came up on my local WA fishing site and others confirmed also it wasn't there.  I recall a comment from one guy however who said on occasions these lumps or pinnacles are real but the locations on the bathy charts are not accurate meaning they could be perhaps several kms away.
I have a deep drop mark off Perth where there is a ridge 270-280m deep around 600m long that drops into a hole 314m deep.  See image below, contours set at 1m increments.  My Navionics chart shows nothing and the nearest contour shown is 190m.
As you say a lot of the data was collected a long time ago.  The focus was then on ensuring safe navigable passage rather than marking deep holes and lumps for fishos.  Obtaining more recent survey data is the key. 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2021 at 11:01am
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FA - OK - here you go.
GPS Fad marks
366; 17 34 876,  168 04 094
393; 17 29 200, 168 02 000
I have taken a screen pic off my GPS for the 366 marks I have - you can see it moves. A lot.
Screen is fuzzy - pulled GPS apart, thinking was mould on the back of glass. Nope, inside LCD. I put my polaroids over the camera - it helps.
My location is approx 17 34 342, 168 15 031 if you want to google.
Here is a pic of the bathy area - I have marked 393, 366 - those lumps are not there. The contour line is 1000m. Just to the rt of 366 you will see the mound I described - where I dropped my elec reel on with 1kg lead. Never found bottom. How can they make this stuff up? i have marked my location , approx, with an X
Regards
Alan  
 
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