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Weed killer glyphosphate in NZ honey

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 12:14pm
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Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

all that being said regulatory bodies around the world say it’s safe at the trace levels found in food.  Everyone freaked about the honey but missed the point that a child would need to eat hundreds of kgs per day of the honey to have any chance of a toxic effect. It’s more a bad look from an export marketing perspective than anything else.  If we were forced to farm the way we used to we’d all starve to death.  Productivity gains from things like glyphosphate have been huge.


What does it do long term though, we don't really know. To claim it's ok because you don't drop dead after eating a jar of honey is laughable. The WHO, the same organization our government echos the talking points of around covid says it isn't fine. So i guess when it suits we're meant to buy the narrative, when it doesn't suit, nah it's fine.
There aren't multi generational studies pertaining to small exposure over a whole lifetime. Kinda the same argument used to justify the 1080 thing - in water catchments, soil, food etc yeah you're not going to die immediately but what is it doing to us over a lifetime.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 3:24pm
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Far more serious is the problem in the South Island, where nitrates from pasture top dressing, have got into the water table. This is causing the problem of cases of bowel cancer, caused by the intake of nitrates. Just as well Speights is brewed in the North Island. 
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Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

All the regulatory bodies around the world say it's safe, hahahahaha like that means anything. Have a look at the stuff the FDA is saying is safe.

What is the FDA saying is safe that you think isn't?
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Lots of things, pretty much every known toxin that is in products people use the FDA claim as safe
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Originally posted by Mr Moritz Mr Moritz wrote:

Far more serious is the problem in the South Island, where nitrates from pasture top dressing, have got into the water table. This is causing the problem of cases of bowel cancer, caused by the intake of nitrates. Just as well Speights is brewed in the North Island. 
You know, this issue is FAR from new. Sth Canterbury had elevated nitrate levels 50 yrs ago. Some of it is native. Then the cropping on top of that native level made it problematic. I can remember reading papers citing nitrate levels beyond 10ppm decades ago.
Dairy gets a lot of the blame now - but there are highish native levels in several places. Part of the nitrogen cycle.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 5:43pm
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Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

All the regulatory bodies around the world say it's safe, hahahahaha like that means anything. Have a look at the stuff the FDA is saying is safe.

Like the food pyramid.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 6:28pm
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Moritz Mr Moritz wrote:

Far more serious is the problem in the South Island, where nitrates from pasture top dressing, have got into the water table. This is causing the problem of cases of bowel cancer, caused by the intake of nitrates. Just as well Speights is brewed in the North Island. 
You know, this issue is FAR from new. Sth Canterbury had elevated nitrate levels 50 yrs ago. Some of it is native. Then the cropping on top of that native level made it problematic. I can remember reading papers citing nitrate levels beyond 10ppm decades ago.
Dairy gets a lot of the blame now - but there are highish native levels in several places. Part of the nitrogen cycle.
Alan

IMO the overwhelming effect of nitrates is the effect it has on our environment. I think it is far worse than what it does to us as people. There are no people if the environment doesn't support them.

Greenie bustard Smudge Big smile

The problem is two fold in Canterbury though. Low rainfall means lots of irrigation. Add some fert (nitrates) and you get smaller rivers with high nitrate loadings. 

I am pro farming but it is literally killing Canterbury imo. 

Please don't use the same IMO twice in the same post Smudge


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 6:46pm
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80% of  nitrates in diet  come from veges. Lettuce and spinich are especially high in nitrates.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 6:48pm
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The original health issue with nitrates was attributed to methemoglobinemia - blue baby syndrome. It has since been attributed to other issues also. 50 yrs ago Sth Canterbury was cited as a hotspot.
So it is a real health issue - as well as environmental - nutrient source in rivers = unintended consequences.
But then we used nitrites and nitrates as food preservative at the same time. Not sure what the regs are now. There is something to be said about hunting/gathering your own food. I am not a greenie, far from it, but we don't know what we don't know. I always considered glyphosate safe, used it extensively. Read the half life reports in soil etc. But then the anecdotal evidence gradually emerged contesting some of the data/assumptions. For me the jury is still out, but now there is a Q mark where previously there was not.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 7:56pm
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Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

Lots of things, pretty much every known toxin that is in products people use the FDA claim as safe


Thought so
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

80% of  nitrates in diet  come from veges. Lettuce and spinich are especially high in nitrates.
Yes - that is how they are taken in to the plant. It is the usual form of N uptake. So the saps are often high in nitrate. Beware of what is your fresh green vegSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 9:47pm
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As far as glyphosate goes, Monsanto made squillions from it before the patent expired. By accident. It was never concocted as a herbicide. Was designed as a surfactant. Added to other herbicides. As in all proper trials, they ran a test with everything except the active ingredient. The surfactant had as good if not better results than the herbicide they trialled. And Roundup was born.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hook-it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 10:21am
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At the end of the day what has happened historically really still happens today. Weed / spray companies want to sell us a product. They will go to any lengths to get you to purchase.
For the amount of spraying I do today, which is not as extensive as yesteryear, I now make my own to do the job. And the best part it really is organic.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 10:25am
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Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

All the regulatory bodies around the world say it's safe, hahahahaha like that means anything. Have a look at the stuff the FDA is saying is safe.

What is the FDA saying is safe that you think isn't?


 Yep they say it is safe.. as mentioned before..
 Safe when used  at recommend levels....
Which in most cases it is not.
Far to many applications, go max concentration of soln, then spray at way too high l/sq m...

How many users here, have actually mixed up at the 10ml/L then worked out how much area that covers....even spot use?

You will be very surprised just how much over use and money you waste.

My example way back, council contractors , spraying curb burns...
They spray way too wide strip, and if assume at correct concentration of soln, then they are using 2 to 3 times the amount required..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 10:33am
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What was used before weed killers were invented.? 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 11:08am
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Good labour intensive maintenance..
 Eg dont let the weeds go to flower, and gub, cultivate out.
 In the case of stuff like potato tops, again more labour intenestive to harvest.

In home gardens, mow lawns higher, dont let weed flower, go in a direction around gardens that doesnt spreed clippings into gardens.
 Maintain weeds in gardens:
 An old gardening saying along these lines " takes 7 yrs of weeding and not letting weeds flower before a garden becomes weed free."

Or put another way.. weeds determine when you spend time in the garden...Which is now foreign to how we run our lives... determined by nature.

And yes we have had very weed free extensive lawns/ garden  for many decades, established from scratch.
 The main weeds are self seeding native trees plants like karaka, kawakawa, totatra puriri.  And tomatoes/ pumpkin from the compost bin.
 Currently establishing small garden from scratch, nearly 2yrs into it now.

Primary method the olsd school, supported by very low use (spot use) round up and tordonD
 note Tordon D is no longer available under that name...Im still on the original 1L container of 30yrs ago.

TordonD @ 75% soln  @ 75% coverage on a still day takes out your lawn weeds... then 4 spot touch ups 1st yr , 2 following yrs.
 This knocks back (not kill) brown top and kykuria lawns

Round up used same or slightly less strength for grass weeds.. just takes little longer to brown off, and usually after a little bit of rain..when you think it hasnt worked at all.

 And if want nice neat path / garden edges without that ugly brown/ dirt strip... small fine nossel 2" above ground and only spray any weed that is ON the concrete...never spray off the concrete..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 12:41pm
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

What was used before weed killers were invented.? 

We had weeds
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 1:16pm
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Thats very profound Smudge.Smile 
So then what is a weed. To every one a weed may be different
I quite like weeds,or some of them.

Rocket and parsley self seeds in my garden. Can be a weed ,but tolerate and use it.
I once had a small ,well maintained patch of nettle. Did not allow it to seed or spread. Thats regarded as a weed. But on the plus side i had the beautiful Red Admiral ,and also the yellow Admiral butterflies visit and lay eggs on the nettle.Nettle is their one and only food plant.Helps what are now rare native  butterflies keep numbers up. And they add colour and interest to a garden.
I let a few puha go to seed. Brings gold finches to feed on the seeds. Same for dandelion. Nastursum ,another weed,but nice to have self seeding.Very colourful.  Both a climber and groundcover. I just let it go,within reason.
But other weeds. Dock. Just dig out. 
Ivy. That can be a real weed.Recently got rid of alot. Hard work,but did it. Took time.
And red weed in the garden beneath the waves. Dont like that and have never figured out how to get rid of it.
Have never used weed killer,nor found a use for it.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote taurangatroutmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 2:07pm
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Before weedkiller people proberly pulled the weed out. Still the best way to go imo
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 2:46pm
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

So then what is a weed. To every one a weed may be different
I quite like weeds,or some of them.

I once had a small ,well maintained patch of nettle. Did not allow it to
seed or spread. Thats regarded as a weed.


And I had a mate about a month ago send me a recipe for cooking nettle - considers it a delicacy.
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