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trim stopped working

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    Posted: 12 May 2019 at 1:58pm
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Titanium
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Last weekend took boat out.Trimmed motor up before getting on the road.. Normal. Then trimmed down. Totally different sound,much quieter,almost like weak battery.
Worked fine on the water. returned home.
Flushed motor,trimmed up to wash . All normal. Went to trim down,same weak sound,and a bit slower than trimming up.
Put boat to bed. Next afternoon decided to check it. No trim,no sound nothing..
Thought ,flat battery. Turned on key,dashboard lit up. Turned key. Motor fired.So not battery.
Following day tried trim again. It worked. Trimmed up for 2-3 seconds and then it failed.
Hasnt worked since.

Motor honda bf40 is 6 year old. Talked to agent who supplied and fitted motor. He said very unlikely to be trim motor. He has only ever had one fail and that on a motor with in excess of 2000 hours.
Anyone one had similar experience. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 2:20pm
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I had an issue with motor not responding to trim on the remotes at times but working off the engine button trim fine. Was damage to the wiring from remotes to engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 2:26pm
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Titanium
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not responding from trim button on motor or controls . will be looked at this week so will know soon. hopefully not too bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 2:38pm
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Hopefully not. Mine was replacing the  entire wiring from remote to engine. Was under warranty but as usual they tried to dodge that, First excuse was using the remotes with wet hands, can you believe it. Then it was, must have caught a hook on the wires and damaged them. I completely lost it, issued all manner of threats which I was would have followed up on before they accepted it as a warranty problem and relaced it. Problem started at 50hrs from purchase.Yamaha by the way.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JustAnotherSpearo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 3:33pm
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No idea if this is helpful or not.. probably not but with the suzuki df90 2013 we had 3 trim switches fail due to salt build up / a lack of a seal around the trim switch on the motor at the back.

First switch simply didn't work up or down.
Second time and third time round got stuck on the up position at sea causing minor issues..

So back to the point. Unlikely given you noticed a musical note change but switches in my experience can have a design flaw.. Maybe something to look at as its simple to do?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JustAnotherSpearo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 3:34pm
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Just read the other posts. Looks like those cover what I said so disregard my first response.

Ill go with 'bugger' as a response instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 4:00pm
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Titanium
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I would go with a connection wiring issue down around the trim motor and or the limiting switch... The switch where you adjust how high up the motor goes.

Trim motor hydrolics and wiring in that general area always gets a spray every few trips with lanocoat and after each trip spray with marine crc

See so many motors around with corrision general salt build up and nasties in these areas.. Suppose cause they are generally hidden
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 4:55pm
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Cirrus there is only one course of action. Measure the voltage at the trim tilt motor - or at the connection to it while the motor is energised. It should be very close to 12v. If it isn't, put your voltmeter across the contacts of the trim tilt relay (if you can get to it) and it should read zero volts or close to it across the closed contacts. If it reads say 4 or 5 volts when the motor is energised then that is the voltage dropped - or lost - across the relay contacts.

If none of that make sense you have two options:

Option 1 - go for the most likely culprit and replace the trim tilt relay

Option 2 - take it to a Honda service agent who will fix it. Most probably by replacing the trim tilt relay


Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sufishent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 10:07am
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Just to had a penny's worth: I had some intermittent motor trimming in the up direction on my Yamaha 40hp - down worked fine. Was the same using either the helm switch or with the switch on the motor - figured it was the relay. 

Bought a new relay and went to fit it and discovered it was going to be an absolute mission (due to how it's bolted in) to replace. I'd already removed the thick cables to the relay and then noted that there was a fair amount of corrosion/dirt on the cable end connections - which would cause an increase in resistance and possibly explained the intermittent nature of the fault. 

Gave the cable ends a really good clean, put back and the intermittent problem has disappeared - been good for 6 months now.

Now have a brand new Yamaha tilt relay sitting in my cupboard :)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 4:44pm
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I had problems with intermittent tacho and power trim in both cases corrosion at connectors in wiring harness at control box - was surprised not already done and went through and cleaned up every connector I could find, lubed with inox first, pushed firmly together  then sealed up with rubber (self sealing tape) no problems since.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Betty Boop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 10:06pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

I would go with a connection wiring issue down around the trim motor and or the limiting switch... The switch where you adjust how high up the motor goes.

Trim motor hydrolics and wiring in that general area always gets a spray every few trips with lanocoat and after each trip spray with marine crc

See so many motors around with corrision general salt build up and nasties in these areas.. Suppose cause they are generally hidden
I agree with Steps....I experienced a similar issue and found a crook wire from the trim sensor.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 9:32am
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Titanium
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All fixed. Here is the outcome.

Took to local auto electrician who also does some boat electrical work and is a boat owner.
Checked power supply & circuitry for tilt motor. Switches ,relays etc O.K.
Tilt motor faulty.
The tilt motor was removed and serviced. Armature tests o.k.
The comm was serviced,brush gear refaced,and holders freed up.

So in short it was the trim motor.


My question is why would a 6yo trim motor wear so quickly on a well serviced motor, frequently  used, reasonably low hours motor
Apparantly this is very rare according to honda agent.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 11:15am
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Sounds like a brush was sticking on the motor. Surprised he was able to service that. It's a reasonably common problem with DC motors.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 11:38am
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Titanium
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The comm was serviced,brush gear refaced,and holders freed up.

 The brush face refaced.. this is a std procedure when servicing.. doesn't mean excessive wear.. it may and most likely, just be to clean the surface of build up crap...
 Holders freed up.. that basically crap build up.. 

Both of these are next to each other work together.. The holders hold the brushes that run on the section that has been cleaned by resurfacing.

A basic clean up service no part replacements.. no wear.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 11:44am
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Titanium
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but how does crap buildup in a sealed unit.
One suggestion was perhaps glue etc was not properly cleaned out when it was made.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 7:02pm
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Titanium
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Possible maybe.. Generally it is carbon dust accumulating around the brushes in the holder.. But this is normally on motors of age and a hell of a lot of use.
Even then for bushes to stick its usually when a motor has irregular use, allowing time for any moisture in the crap to dry out and solidify a little.
It's hard to say...
I don't know how well sealed these motors are or if sea salt moisture could also accumulate.
These things happen. Be it a 1950s jowett van or classic Chevy or a trim motor.
Fortunately it's just a little crap build up and not a burnt alternate or an expensive relay
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 7:43pm
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Brushes wear as the motor works. A mix of carbon dust and oil mkes some sticky stuff. It's just something that happens sometimes.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 9:39pm
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I had a similar issue.
I brought the motor, it had done 2000 hrs. Shortly after , the trim motor failed. brushes were knackered. Absolutely gone.
The motor had been replaced less than a year previously by a dealer, not brand specific..I had the receipt, no plausible reason for such an early failure, but as I type this, I begin to wonder if they found another fault, rectified it, and charged for a new motor.
Anyway, I replaced the brushes, cost me 80 bucks, 3 months later, failure again..
By this time, my replacement motor arrived from overseas, I fitted it.
Great, until 6 mths later, intermittent.,,
Traced fault to loose connections where the trim motor plugged in, sorted..
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 9:35am
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Titanium
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brushes were knackered. Absolutely gone. 
The motor had been replaced less than a year previously by a dealer, not brand specific..I had the receipt, no plausible reason for such an early failure,

Note that the auto sparky on Cirrus resurfaced.. turned down the area on the armature the brushes run (commutator)...fast brush wear is most common because the commutator is damaged or rough.. basically sands away the softer carbon brushes.
A little trick to smooth the commutator if dont have a lathe, is some wet and dry 1200 paper and a leather boot strap. Wrap around and pull each end of the boot strap to spine the paper.
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