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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: BIG FISH
    Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 9:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 10:22am
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Triploid rainbows on spin gear. Meh. Maybe I'm just jealous, but it really doesn't float my boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 1:58pm
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Wild 3lbs Taupo herrings or 20+ lbs triploids.     I know which ones I would like to have on the end of my flyline.     I suspect that these non spawners fish dont run up the rivers.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SINNER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 2:52pm
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[QUOTE=Rainbow] Wild 3lbs Taupo herrings or 20+ lbs triploids.     I know which ones I would like to have on the end of my flyline.    
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote photog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 1:29am
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Back in the 70's a guy called Sam Holland introduced triploides to Avington Fishery in Hampshire, England. The fish were intoduced into 4 small lakes totalling 10 acres of water. Sam's fishery soon became famous around England at the time and after seeing all the photos in the angling press my mate Stuart and I went for a look. Sam Hollnad always maintained that these fish could be put in small and would grow to these enormous sizes without any intervention. Once you saw the size of the lakes you realised that would not be possible. In fact the fish were release about an hour before fishing commenced each day at 9 am.

The fish had no fight, looked horrible and we never fished for triploids again. That was in a country that had very little wild trout that were affordable to fish for.
 
Things may have changed in nearly 40 years, but give me a wild fish anytime, big or small.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 9:49am
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Photog, I hope you are not suggesting that the trout at Lake Dieffenbaker have been put in fully grown.     You are drawing a very long bow comparing that fishery with the small put and take stew ponds and tailless slobs of GB.    What about the genetic selection of R Strain rainbows as practiced by Eastern F&G?    I have not heard anybody complaining about their pedigrees when hooking into double figure R Strain fish in any Rotorua Lakes.   
These triploid fish grow to such an impressive size because they dont waste precious energy on reproduction.    The can not cross breed with wild trout and therefore pose no risk if a few thousands were put into Lake Taupo.    It would give that ailing fishery a much needed shot in the arm.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote photog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 1:18pm
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Rainbow I never said that, I do know though that my preference is for wild fish, they are hardier, fight harder and have had no interference from man. I can see the marketing value of large trout in waters that can't reproduce their own trout, but for me thats where it stops. Introducing triploids, or any hatchery trout, into wild populations is well documented world wide to show it is detrimental to wild stocks. That is my opinion, you don't have to agree and I respect that, but I don't want to get into a protracted debate.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote T T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 9:50pm
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I think the question is more do we NEED this type of fish in NZ? In my opinion the short and obvious answer is no, if you're happy looking further afield than Taupo that is.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 4:44pm
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Do we need them?    As an example there are hundreds of still waters around the country with no natural recruitment and are regularly stocked with hatchery reared fingerlings.     If these fingerlings were desexed and thus grow much bigger I  can't see any problems with that.     However, judging by the above video the matter is well worth a thourough study by our fishery managers.    I seem to recall that Eastern F&G has looked into this already.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote tmmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 5:19pm
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Interesting argument that you have raised. I would personally prefer to catch "natural" trout. To me one of the attractions of trout fishing is the feelings of being in a natural environment, there is nothing I enjoy more than casting a dry fly to a hungry fish on a peaceful section of a river on a nice afternoon. It is not the size of the fish that matters, it is the environment, the challenge and the tranquility of the sport.

In New Zealand there are plenty of big fish to catch, and if all you want to do is catch a fish that pulls down your scales, then why are you fishing for trout? Snapper, Kingfish, or even Bronze Whalers from the beach. I love fishing for kingfish, I love fishing for snapper and I want to catch a lbg shark this year because I enjoy catching big fish, but in terms of relaxation and with being at one with nature nothing beats trout fishing.

I see that fishing for triploid rainbows as being completely different to fishing for R strain rainbows. Within any population there is natural variation, some fish are bigger, some are smaller, the genes of the fish that survive into maturity will be passed down to the next generation. R strain rainbows are still able to breed (correct me if I am wrong), triploid rainbows cannot. It seems to me that by taking the ability to breed from a fish, you have taken away one of the fundamental purposes of life and have created a toy to satisfy ones desires.

I have no objection to the people who want to catch these fish, if I was in that part of the world I would certainly go out with a guide for a day and do my best to catch one, but I am against putting these fish in our fishery.

If there was enough support in NZ I don't see why there could not be a few dedicated fisheries for these fish. I cannot really see the harm in that. What is the worst case scenario? Someone puts a couple in a tank and releases them in taupo- they won't breed so there would be no long term affects.

And yes I do see the irony in referring to a natural trout in NZ waters- but i think you will understand what I mean.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Jet_ski_fisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 5:54pm
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Why not go the whole hog and import the Mongolian trout (Google the fish) now that's a trout :)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 12:11am
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I too can at times get quite philosophical about trout fishing although I have not yet reached the the hightened state of mind that I am satisfied with "just being there" and that catching a fish is an added bonus.   I like catching big trout and have for the best part of 50 years chased after them in some of the remotest parts of both islands.   
Alas the great days of NZ trout fishing are gone forever and noone regrets their passing more than I having seen what it was really like.    
 
We can thank the former Acclimatisation Societies for their enthusiasm to introduce a whole managery of exotic animals to these isles and I am quite convinced they would have introduced Mongolian Taiman if that had been possible.    Even the former Wildlife Service contemplated introducing Striped and Large Mouth Bass.  
 
In recent years the mood of the country has changed and it is now highly unlikely that any more sporting game or fish will be brought to  these shores.    So we are faced with making the best of what we have got and need to explore new possibilities with an open mind.     Triplouid trout may fill a niche in this country's trout fishing spectrum and are therefore worthy of consideration.    
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote tmmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 8:43pm
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[QUOTE=Rainbow] I too can at times get quite philosophical about trout fishing although I have not yet reached the the hightened state of mind that I am satisfied with "just being there" and that catching a fish is an added bonus.   I like catching big trout and have for the best part of 50 years chased after them in some of the remotest parts of both islands.   
Alas the great days of NZ trout fishing are gone forever and noone regrets their passing more than I having seen what it was really like.    
 
We can thank the former Acclimatisation Societies for their enthusiasm to introduce a whole managery of exotic animals to these isles and I am quite convinced they would have introduced Mongolian Taiman if that had been possible.    Even the former Wildlife Service contemplated introducing Striped and Large Mouth Bass.  
 
In recent years the mood of the country has changed and it is now highly unlikely that any more sporting game or fish will be brought to  these shores.    So we are faced with making the best of what we have got and need to explore new possibilities with an open mind.     Triplouid trout may fill a niche in this country's trout fishing spectrum and are therefore worthy of consideration.    
 
Rainbow
[/QUOTE

Firstly I enjoy reading your posts Rainbow- I am in my 20s and maybe my different views may due to the fact that the trout fishing that I was brought up with is nothing compared to what you experienced in past decades.

I just don't see what the niche is. I just feel that the attraction of fly fishing in NZ is that you fish in beautiful places, for trout that are fairly natural, and you feel that you are fishing in a wild or backcountry like area. If your niche is catching big fish that pull the scales down to 30lb plus surely you are better off hanging a kawahai under a baloon near a reef?

When I fish I want to catch fish, I am not satisfied with just being there. It goes not matter if I catch a fish, but I have to feel that I have the chance to catch a fish, or feel that if I was a better fisherman I would catch a fish, in a wild environment, man vs wild I guess. Fishing for infertile fish that have been in effect genetically engineered to grow big in a back country stream would just not feel right to me...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 11:22pm
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lTmmo, you have got me all wrong if you think that I advocated that triploids should be put into rivers and God forbid back country rivers.   There we are on the same page.     The niche I can see are still waters that need regular stoking with fingerlings.     Triploids are sterilised trout not genetically engineered fish.   Sterilisation is achieved by warming the eggs prior to hatching.    Sterile fish occur naturally and there is apparently scientific evidence that some of the really big trout that show up against a general trend are naturally sterile.
 
Make no mistake I like hunting wild and wylly trout in natural settings.    However, I must admit that over the last 15 years I have become addicted to the brutes of Flaxy Lakes, which live in a totally man made environment located in a plantation pine forest.    Belive me when these fish thrash the water during the brief evening rise the quality of the setting pales into insignificance.     Size does matter.
 
Cheers 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote tmmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2011 at 11:49am
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oh sorry, yeah point taken. It would be interesting I guess, and as I said in an earlier post the potential for damage to other fisheries by an infertile trout would be almost zero, if someone did take a few and release them there is no way that they would be able to reproduce and be an ongoing problem.

I have also had a read, and yes you are correct- the eggs are warmed, and chromosomes don't separate so you end up with a fish having 3 sets, not 2.  would be interesting i guess
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote gulfgreyhound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2011 at 3:53am
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I'd say it depends on wether you want to fill a niche or not. These fish do eat so some natural food is lost and may damage the ecosystem in that way. That competition for food may not be best for native species. Some species  have been detrimental to the environment,aka carp. Yes,they do get big due just like gelded pigs do.
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