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Post Options Post Options   Likes (4) Likes(4)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Trawling in gulf not wanted
    Posted: 20 Nov 2024 at 8:53pm
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Titanium
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Well finally got logged on again. And for only one reason really and that was Dave aka Hard Yaka popped in to my driveway the other day on his bike (what he does on rough days when not hard yakking catching lots of fish). We got talking and noted decline fish sizes and catch off our local. We both agreed current news of renewed gulf trawling, thank you NZ First and Minister Jones, was really bad. I get angry every year seeing trawlers inside gulf coming in between hen and little barrier (well inside from Mokes) taking fish (all fish, skippies, kahawai and  trevs) at  an industrial scale. Letting them in there is madness, them coming closer will absolutely decimate gulf, even smaller seiners.
It is so bad for someone almost 60 years old who has fished inner and outer gulf most of his life, really heartbreaking.
I know almost all parts of Hauraki gulf well and have witnessed decline in the fish stocks.  The gulf will not take further commercial pressure, it will ruin it for all. 
Should be recreational only if they are going to plunder it, and probably should be regulated further in terms of the take of recreational snapper in spawning season. Anyway rant over. Good to be back.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2024 at 9:41pm
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Titanium
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You are correct Total madness. Deliberate and wanton destruction. Gulf is a major snapper spawning ground. And for what. Not the locals. For export.

It began in earnest in 1986. The Lange Govt nationalised our fisheries.  Not wanting to alert people or raise alarm they gave it a nice sounding name. The quota management system.  Almost sounds scientific.  Quickly the small local  fishers mostly vanished. Communities were destroyed. Then , suddenly owning most of the quota ,the big companies arrived ,overseas input ,destructive ,industrial scale fish harvesting began. And this in every fishery in the nation.
Anyone managed a paua,scallop or crayfish lately. How long before this spreads to other species. In many cases it is already begining. Great management. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2024 at 11:31pm
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1) Spawning time,even legasea will say no taking during spawning is not the problem. When is spawning season?? spawning can take place several times when the water temp is 18c and above.

2) Its a marine park and yes I fish but should we not be treating a marine park like a national land park,no taking of any kind?

3)Mpi set the trawl zone but Auckland council can over rule this as they are responsible for all sea/seaweed fauna/fish out to the 12 mile limit including islands within their juristriction.And this was pointed out in 2013? by 2 overseas experts.At the Fishing sypnosium hosted by Legasea  But due to costs of legal action,no action taken.
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Phantom Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 2:33pm
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Yep,  you are one the money Shane!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 4:27pm
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aprox 200k recc fish the park

reccs take aprox 3 x more than comms according to niwa

roughly 4 or 5 trawlers work in the park and take about 120 snapper per trawl  fishing mid water according to ocean bounty show on tv

No one complains about longliners laying 3000+ hooks in the groiunds most of us fish in.

Said it before seriously want to save the park total ban for all 2 yrs is all will take or fishing within 1 mile of foreshore including outer islands and reefs except for sub 12 ft vessels.

Yes I am part of the problem buying bait,have found 5kg jack macs for $28 compared to $15kg mullet so will be going vack to buy another 2 or 3 boxes.

The hpa areas are still before select committee and Minister for doc has been scrutinized for agreeing to allow limited seining in those areas. Maybe a reversal on that discission shortly.

Not defending coms. But for those that dont know. Sandfords have sold/transfered all inshore quota to Moana,so good luck stopping moana fishing. Would be big bill in their favour from the Waitangi tribunal .

"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 5:12pm
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Irony of this is that not long ago there was talk of excluding recreational from certain areas of the gulf to protect fish stocks.  Now they talk of increasing comercial  take in the gulf. . Two opposites. And add to this the gill netters that already operate there.  Politicians must give account for their decisions to all parties affected.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 5:26pm
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[QUOTE=cirrus]Irony of this is that not long ago there was talk of excluding recreational from certain areas of the gulf to protect fish stocks.  Now they talk of increasing comercial  take in the gulf. . Two opposites.  Politicians must give account for their decisions to all parties affected.  [/QUOTE    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/conservation-minister-tama-potaka-was-told-not-to-allow-commercial-fishing-in-hauraki-gulf-protection-zones-documents-reveal/4VAFJVZBURGIHPVTW55IR4R7KI/

Interesting reading.
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 9:34pm
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Pcj I watched that link you sent through. Others should definitely watch it and after watching it complain as much as possible, if you like fishing recreationally and value our environment and the fishing opportunities it has historically offered.
The rationale is so dumb and half arsed.  Highly disappointing as a right leaning voter, this really sucks what they are going to do. Worst fears confirmed!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 9:58pm
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could Wayne Brown and council actually stop this Pcj if enough pressure was mounted?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote brmbrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 10:03pm
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You dont want it, I dont want it, but some rich people want it and so do ACT and National. And i wouldn't think Wayne Brown gives a toss
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 10:37pm
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Yep probably not, sad case for us right wing voters. Maybe have to vote for other side next time, though about only thing they were on my side with. Talked to Seymour once at Act meeting regards fisheries, he seemed very confused by what I said and struggled with why I was so interested in it. 
Cards on table,  I was once upon time economist who originally was supportive of ITQ system. And I’m usually economically free market thinking. But this is dumb course to take dominated by influential corrupt commercial  lobby, and even economically short sighted  (rec fishing industry,  boats, etc)  and definitely environmentally bad. 
And  also culturally very poor outcome, as fishing for many is an inclusive recreation that kiwis can enjoy from the biggest city in NZ.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 11:08pm
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Originally posted by shaneg shaneg wrote:

could Wayne Brown and council actually stop this Pcj if enough pressure was mounted?
As you said,Nope,he has more depressing isues to deal with.

Feeding lower socio families in South Ak what a joke the price wont be any lower than it now.

I still claim(many against it) we need to pay a fee/licence?then we cvan say we are true stakeholders in the fishery. At the moment we get a token gesture even though the law may show reccs/customary then comms.

Now what I dont get is Scott Macindoe saying a while ago ,he accepts he doesnt have a right to fish parse?

"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2024 at 4:59pm
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"Now what I dont get is Scott Macindoe saying a while ago ,he accepts he doesnt have a right to fish parse?"
Yet another cowered by the ethnic vocal minority pushing guilt trips on those not strong enough to stand up to it.
As soon as you are born to these lands, you have the right to take advantage of what it has to offer. Ethnicity should play absolutely no part.
Unfortunately, it is doing so more and more and blatantly as well.
Legasea Legend Member
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2024 at 6:53pm
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Originally posted by v8-coupe v8-coupe wrote:

"Now what I dont get is Scott Macindoe saying a while ago ,he accepts he doesnt have a right to fish parse?"
Yet another cowered by the ethnic vocal minority pushing guilt trips on those not strong enough to stand up to it.
As soon as you are born to these lands, you have the right to take advantage of what it has to offer. Ethnicity should play absolutely no part.
Unfortunately, it is doing so more and more and blatantly as well.
option4 spelt it out clearly so who knows what Macindoe is on about?



PART 2
The Legal Nature of Recreational Fishing Rights

25. The purpose of this paper is to outline the nature of the ‘right’ to fish recreationally in New Zealand. The statutory arrangements and other legal obligations, such as treaty obligations under international law, and Treaty of Waitangi obligations that define the ‘right’ are discussed. The intention is to provide the reader with an understanding of the constituent elements of the right and the legal basis of these elements. The paper is not intended as a legal opinion. It should be read in conjunction with the papers on the allocation of total allowable catch between stakeholders; obligations to Maori; and maintaining the marine environment that describe other elements of the broader environment in which recreational fishing rights exist.

Individual access and use right
26. At common law everyone has a right to take fish in the tidal waters of all rivers, estuaries, and the territorial limits of the sea unless they are interfering with the exclusive rights of others or are prohibited by statute.

27. In New Zealand everyone may fish in the tidal waters of all rivers, estuaries, and the sea within the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) providing they do so in accordance with statute. Prior to the introduction of specific statutes controlling the extent of access to fisheries it is commonly held that individual New Zealanders enjoyed a common law right to fish recreationally limited only by exclusive rights held by other individuals or groups. Specific fishery statutes and other legislation in New Zealand have further limited this right. There are alternative views as to the basis of the recreational right. Maori, for example, consider that the Treaty confirmed their exclusive undisturbed possession of their fisheries and recreational fishers fished subject to these rights.

28. The Treaty of Waitangi (Fisheries Claims) Settlement Act 1992 in addressing the settlement of Maori fishing rights acknowledged the “uncertainty and dispute” between the Crown and Maori as to the nature and the extent of Maori fishing rights and whether they derive from the Treaty or common law. Although there may be uncertainty as to the basis of the recreational right prior to enactment of the Settlement Act, this Act has settled Maori fisheries claims and provides the basis for the use of fisheries resources.

29. The Fisheries Act 1996 [Section 89(2)] permits recreational (amateur) fishers to take fish without a fishing permit, subject to any limitations the Crown may impose by regulation. To the extent there is any conflict between a common law right and legislation the legislation is deemed to override any conflicting aspect of the right that existed in common law at the time the legislation came into effect.

30. There are a number of amateur fishing regulations that describe how the public access right is to be exercised. These fishing regulations set daily bag limits, size limits, restrict fishing methods, and impose area and seasonal closures. The bag limits are not transferable (ie they can only be exercised by the person doing the fishing ), nor can they be accumulated over time (ie if the bag limit is not caught in any one day the remainder cannot be added to a future day’s catch).

31. The right to go fishing applies to anyone who is currently in New Zealand—neither residents nor tourists require any form of authorisation to go fishing in the sea, provided that they do not sell the catch and abide by the amateur fishing regulations. The Act requires the Crown to provide for the utilisation of fisheries resources while ensuring sustainability so as to meet the reasonable foreseeable needs of future generations. The Crown is not required to protect any particular level of take or catch rate associated with the public right to go fishing. Nor is there a guarantee that the fish will be located in an area that is easily accessible by the public, or that the abundance or size will reflect the desires of the fishing public.
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hard Yakker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 1:33pm
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Conservation Minister Tama Potaka dismissed his expert advice to favor Seafood New Zealand's last minute amendment, calling his decision “common sense changes”. 
Baring recreational fisherman from Gardiners gap, but allowing ring netters in there is common sense? Tell him what you think: [email protected].
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 2:00pm
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Not allowing a kid to catch a snapper ,but allowing commercial in is not common sense. And all the so called reserves are in reality profit storage zones.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 2:10pm
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But has it had its final reading at select committee?

Bigger concern is the hospitals,we will all need medical insurance if Seymour gets his way.
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 5:56pm
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Reality is 200k fish the gulf,may get a few greenies or concerned non fisher persons onboard. But with a AK population of what 1.5 million the odds are against us. Fish/seafood dont rate highly in the grand scheme of things,as in a previous thread,Tzer is on the money. Not saying give up but we are up against it with more depressing issues in NZ
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 7:37pm
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Yes I can see a day coming when you won’t be able too catch fish in the gulf, I hope it’s not in my time. But I think fishing licenses will be.

Legasea only seems to be concerned about charging for fish filtering and free fish heads.

Like everything else in this country our fishing is being taken away by stealth.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 8:59am
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Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

Yes I can see a day coming when you won’t be able too catch fish in the gulf, I hope it’s not in my time. But I think fishing licenses will be. Very cynical veiw Kandrew but lets say your right, if indeed the day comes that you wont be able to catch a fish in the HG it wont be becuase of commercial fishing & trawling praticises. Increasing populations in and around the gulf, environmental issues associated with this and the ever influence of the green brigade and Maori will have a bigger impact than commercial will ever have. Fishing licences is a possibilty and again I think this will be lead by the greenies and Iwi who will demand that you pay for fishing permits over and above customary permits in areas under their control. Licenses could be a way forward for fishery protection and management if revenue collected was channeled back into the fishery but we all know it will only end up in the back pockets of those administering licences or a consolitdated fund if government lead.

Legasea only seems to be concerned about charging for fish filtering and free fish heads. One of the very few good initiatives by Legasea but it would be interesting to know just where any money from charging for filleting ends up. In the beginning Legaseas vision may have been a good one but these days their agenda is to be a voice for anti-commercial propaganda. Recreational and more so those moderating Legaseas FB page should read this article http://www.seafood.co.nz/news-and-events/news/detail/stay-cool-this-summer-dealing-with-abuse-when-youre-just-doing-your-job?fbclid=IwY2xjawHC1wpleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHQVQ2yn2a15Dq3yuD6IB9JQRdxuW0v7YSY2gCgrUEoN-V6PkI_JYraI8kw_aem_rL8pK_GSBSgK19GFroCjrg and in particular take note of this paragraph "The NGOs who take issue with commercial fishing can help, by moderating their language and making sure they stick to the facts " I see nothing that makes me think Legsea as a NGO is an effective voice for recreational.

Like everything else in this country our fishing is being taken away by stealth. I dont think this is correct, I believe certain groups including the government have been quite open in the way recreational are viewed and their rights are considered.
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