Raglan Bar

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    Posted: 10 Nov 2021 at 10:18pm
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Good evening Gents..
I am thinking about heading out over the Bar instead of Manu Bay.
I have a 5.5 Surtees with a 90 Yamaha on the back.
I've been out of Manu plenty of times but you really need 2 experienced people to launch and retrieve there.
Which I don't always have.
Launching from within the harbour should be a lot easier than Manu.
Will my boat be suitable for crossing the bar?
I'm thinking a 7 on swell map and crossing at the or around the top of high tide?
I would appreciate your advice.
Thanks
Chur Bay
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote tjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2021 at 9:02am
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The bar is actually not hard, do the coast guard bar course first, you boat will be ok when the swell is 1m or less and you stick to the mid to high tide times.
We went out yesterday morning at low tide which isn't recommended unless there is no swell or wind and you have some experience. As it happened a few sneakers came in in just as we were about to cross and were breaking, we have a 7m hard top with plenty of power to keep moving so not an issue. Apart from large swells in my opinion the thing that frightens people the most in the joggle inside the bar when the tide is running out. The pressure waves can bury even a larger boat so care is required. Do the course and go out with some one that knows their way across. P.S last weekend the boats in the estuary were insane,,, too many actually, no parking and potential shambles at the ramp
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 Not clear if experienced in crossing bars...

I have not crossed the Raglin....I have watched it on the cctv feeds, and watched boats going in and out from shore.
 I have crossed the Manukau and Waikato many times, Waikato the most.
Both of these seem milder than the Raglin from the shore.

My very strong advice, is go out in anothers boat, or have an experienced person on THAT bar when go out.
Do not just follow.
 Each bar has its quirks, and line to take, dont turn 'left' too soon' Watch the 'freak wave come at you sideways once in actually inside the bar  etc.

Will my boat be suitable for crossing the bar?
I have a 5.5 Surtees with a 90 Yamaha on the back.

A lot ppl cross bars in low powered boats.. on very calm days.
A well powered boat is when hit good chop, with white horses well developed, you just set the throttle and may work only the trim...If need to work the throttle you are under powered when the proverbial hits the fan on a bar.
Another indicator, is full load, inducing full bin and ppl, your WoT will be 42 mph plus.
If your boat/rig can do the above, nicely powered for bars and when chop comes up.

If not when that wave starts to catch up up going in, or that wave that comes thru every 1 1/2 hrs stands up in front of you, you get over it, and the last one of that set is standing up.
And when current wind, swell and chop on top of it causes a washing machine patch, or a hole (like sink hole cars and houses fall into) open up in front..

And going with some else 1st just to point stuff like above out, cant do if follow... even on dead calm day.

Im not trying to put you off.
We have a 5.5m glass boat, I swaped out the 115hp for a 150 when came west coast ( a 130 or 140 would do done just as well.)

And make sure your jackets have crotch straps..



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote churbay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2021 at 10:20am
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Thanks for that.
I have heard the Coastguard Bar crossing course is good, but I cant find anywhere online to book one. 
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yes I’d agree, out of hole power is crucial and I many a time I have been travelling in over the Raglan Bar with huge waves crashing in front and behind and sitting in a sweet spot looking at the GPS as only the sky above visible. You can’t hear rear lookout so we tap shoulders for attention. Have your crew well drilled. Calm day you can waterski over bar. Most tap out at 1m. I’m a surfer and had a 47knot capable rig so my cut off is 1.5ish  on a fuller tide. West coast being the west coast always watch out for a whopper coming your way. Some days every wave is after you, holding off breaking till on you. I learnt to pierce a wave face on that bar, when you know you are going to be closed out on, it’s kind of like a boat duck dive. Pick a clear face and throttle down so your nose goes down. Once just pushing into face go full noise and you pass through the wave. Have your bilge on before hand as it’s all hands on deck straight after you pop out at back of wave as if you are in that zone another wave is on its way. Not something I like doing but that bar will throw you all it’s got to get you, flipping sucks so it’s a good skill to pick up. The worst part of that bar in my mind apart from how long it is and how many waves you got to get over is the joggle in the throat of bar on the outgoing. I’ve had waves come over my left gunnel, right, gunnel, stern and bow at the same time!! Frighten washing machine. I trim up a bit and let crew know there will be some hard hits for the next 30m and dance through with throttle up and down dancing across the tops avoiding the dips where possible. Definitely do bar crossing coarse. I did it years after I was regularly going over Raglan bar and learnt a lot 
!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2021 at 12:23pm
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Cool post RD
 Every bit of it...
Just add .. always have a crew watch the rear and sides for any waves, catching up...and if they look forward...told in uncertain terms...dont take your eyes off the rear and sides.
 
I dont like the manukau.. takes so damn long.. and the crap inside the bar... where lot ppl go down.

I like the Waikato.. 2 mins from check in to check out..
Dont cross on the low, shallow and narrow channel and those bigger swells and have longer periods ( last 2 waves, upto 2.5X normal swell height) that come in around every hr or so)even on 1/3 to 1/2 tide, can climb well above your Cabin/ VHF aerial.

And if someone says " sit inside and wait for the smaller sets.."  go listen to someone else.... u can see jack 5h1t from water level....
Which is why (pre surf board leg ropes) we sat on sand dunes counting sets before heading out to the back breaks.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote Muzzfishing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2021 at 10:28pm
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I had a 5.5 workmate with a 90hp Yammi which I upgraded to a 115 Suzuki. Mainly so I could go gamefishing , quieter and more fuel range. It was like a different boat. With the 90 doing bar crossings at Whakatane against the tied It definitely felt it needed more power. Was great with the 115. I also fish out of Raglan and used Manu Bay I never took the 5.5 over the bar was easy to launch and retrieve at Manu Bay. I have recently sold the 5.5 and gone a bit bigger. The guy I sold it too has been going to Raglan and crossing the bar without problem. He is a experienced boaty and surfy.
I have recently started crossing the bar at Raglan for the same reasons you mentioned. Im definately a learner when it come to crossing the bar. Went over on a busy flat day plenty of boats to follow and time to suss out the marks and lights on the leads to the bar.
My best bit of advice would be to use Manu Bay, do the Coastguard bar crossing course and try it only when conditions are very good.
    A Good Skipper Keeps the water on the outside of the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote tjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2021 at 5:30pm
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Agreed muzz,, I've crossed it when the swell was 2.5 m in my old boat (6.1) With the tides at 1/2 in it was no problem but as an ex surfer and having done the bar course I just waited for the sets to pass and timing it right to get out. For me coming back from the outside when a swell is running is a bit more stress , you need to pick a wave and get onto the back of it and don't let the one behind catch you. I had a boat follow me out on one of these days and he made the mistake of following and then turning back rather than committing. Lucky for them they did get around and back inside before the wave hit, could have been untidy
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2021 at 7:23pm
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Another trick when on the back of a wave. Stay right on its back (one reason why you need good power - surprising how fast they go sometimes). If it starts to fizzle out, don't hang about. Gun it, over the face and gap it towards the next one. You may get clear before you catch it, or maybe not. But you will have put good distance between yourself and the one behind, in good water. Money in the bank.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2021 at 12:49am
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waves/swells in deep water travel at about 5 mph the shallower it gets the speed increase to an average of 15 mph

I believe one needs to travel faster than them or slower,but if going slower still need to able control direction ,that where the power is required.

experince falls in to its own.,no experience over west coast bars but Whangarei harbour/tutukaka both are simular characters in onshore winds over 20+ with incoming tides,been caught out in both entrances.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kimber7wsm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2021 at 8:43am
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PCJ- 

Personally I believe traveling slower is very dangerous and should not be done. If a wave catches you and you start surfing, that's when things turn bad very quickly.
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Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Another trick when on the back of a wave. Stay right on its back (one reason why you need good power - surprising how fast they go sometimes). If it starts to fizzle out, don't hang about. Gun it, over the face and gap it towards the next one. You may get clear before you catch it, or maybe not. But you will have put good distance between yourself and the one behind, in good water. Money in the bank.
Alan

Right on the money Smile Used to run the Mokau bar, very unforgiving if you made a mistake.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2021 at 9:15am
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If one starts crossing bars on calm days, swell tops 1m
 Then practice riding the back of a swell. in
On calm days its a lot harder to do, as AlanL says,

"Stay right on its back (one reason why you need good power - surprising how fast they go sometimes). If it starts to fizzle out, don't hang about."

So its good practice for when the bigger sets come thru on other days in the future
It is far easier to ride in on a wave when swells get up above the 1m than flat days.

 
And yeah get up onto the next one real damn quick.. its just flat water in front over you to it. you then know the one behind you is a smaller swell ...Mess around trying to find the wave you where on, the next one could very well the bigger and last of the set, climb up and break while still on the face.

 Its all about having good power to get to the next wave/ swell, either going out and the wave stands up, then the next one...
And coming in, swell drops away from underneath
And to force easily thru those washing machine areas and pressure waves inside.

Good power means when the unexpected happens, you get to tell the story because you got thru it , with an increase in heart rate and did so quick and easy.
Lack of power means you have a high risk fight on your hands to re-position well , if you manage to do so. And on 'long bars' (eg manukau. raglin) chances are you will have it happen several times.

I have been over in small  well powered 4m semi open boats, gone over in well powered 7.5m cats...and in between
No issues, been over in a min powered 5.5m.. all pretty much same conditions...
 Will not go over again in a min powered, that was .. un nerving to say the least... the potentual for something to go wrong .. was on edge waiting for it.

And the sad thing , those who do go over in under/ min powered.. dont know the difference... or have their heads in the sand.. dont want to know attitude.. "she will be right"
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Once we launched from Manu in mate's 70 HP 4.9 Marco and while we were coming in we heard from CG that recommended that Manu was too difficult to retrieve.
Mate had never crossed the bar and we asked if anyone else was coming in over the bar so we could get advice. We anchored on bar reef until another boat arrived and we had a chat then followed them in. We stayed a wave behind the other boat and it went very sweetly.
The other boat had also been launched at Manu and he'd got a mate to drive them both back to get their tow cars.
My mate said the ramp looked ok at Manu and that we'd retrieved in much worse conditions.
That joggle can be nasty!

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PCJ that’s surprises me after going out a few times out of Whangarei mouth. Looks like I have some fun times to come in 20+ winds. Just stick to the channel and dance around a bit?
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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