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Osprey vs Kiwi vs Stabi vs Frewza

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    Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 7:57am
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Titanium
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If you were in the North Island, I would recommend this Orca made APB. Flapping awesome craft, ex coast guard, but in mind condition. Has everything you need including a 9" Simrad with one of those football size airmar 275 1kw transducers. Epirb and all the gear.

Orca don't mess about, they like AMF imo, custom made boats for military and coasties etc.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/motorboats/listing/2951984260?bof=8dGrxcVh
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 7:07pm
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Yeah all good man

I spend half the week in Fiordland based out of Invers

This vessel is to be something that is primarily used for a quick 2 or 3 hours after work and day missions into Foveaux straight, Milford sound and the southern lakes

has to be easy to tow as I'll regularly take it through to Te Anau with me.

has to be easy to launch and retrieve single handed

as stated in my OP - prefer local manufacturer/agency for warranty purposes

I had considered glass but at that 5.5 or under size they have inferior transom designs and less capacity for the odd occasion where there may be more than 3 or 4 pob, alloy is much stronger in the market here - i think i counted only 3 glass agency's locally (huntsman/smuggler/figlass) and they are the same price point or more than the alloys of the equivalent size.

If my 16' Bonito was a foot or two longer I would probably just repower it and carry on with life but I am reluctant to throw 18-20k at a 46yr old hull - whilst admittedly its in really good nic.

I probably am ending up with what I had already determined in my own head but that probably just shows the amount of homework and thought i have already put into this - I am yet to be convinced otherwise from what I have read here.

People shouldn't be afraid to put forth their own point of view or advice here - I'll cop it on the chin and mull it over if its warranted and there have been a couple of good points made.

Ive gone from a cresta craft v176 to four winns 180 to the custom built 9m pontoon to adding the 16' Bonito - which I am looking to replace - that was going to be replaced with a center/side console but having a mate and our daughters with us over the summer made me realize that its best to retain at least a cuddy of some sort.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 4:55pm
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Titanium
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I know seems a bit daunting, but dont discount any of the brands to be honest, I think you sound like you are getting what you had made up your own mind on anyway?

Without confusing things too much, maybe a sea trial in a number of boats. just to compare what you are getting money wise and just to be sure you get it right the first time. Just keep in mind what Reel Deal has said, Needs, Wants, fishing conditions. Ultimately that will drive your purchase. That is why testing riding a number will sort out the winner in your own mind (even if you have a fav already) and for your intended conditions and you will feel confident in what is, a huge amount of money in nearly anybodys language.

Pretty easy to add all the extras up and spend a large chunk on after market components. So can understand you wanting to put your base into the engine and hull at this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 2:46pm
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Thanks for the replies guys, appreciated.

Struggling to get questions answered properly and correct info out of osprey unfortunately so have asked for a price on a kk545c locally as well.

Won't be getting too many extra options - only thing(s) i really want factory fitted are a wash down, maybe electronics, and maybe some seadek/similar flooring - everything else I'll either do myself or have done custom after i get a feel for the boat and ergonomics/ layout.

Even then only extras really after that will be:

Folding bimini/canopy setup that can take vhf aerial, lighting and maybe a few rods

bunk/storage fore

some sort of rear bench seating arrangement - I like the idea of a sliding rear seat that can be removed for when at sea - may look at something like that - maybe a couple of smaller icyteks behind skip and passenger seats

I'll probably design and make my own combination bait board/locker/drawer/rod holder setup for the trans although the osprey one is pretty good

The 520c base package is about 50k with a 4s 90 and trailer - I think the kk545 is about the same but has a few more std features like the bunks fore and lined etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 10:19pm
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Titanium
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Originally posted by CJR09 CJR09 wrote:



I have decided on the Osprey 520c for all the reasons you outlined above - totally agree on the transom and dead rise design - add 5mm hull std

I contemplated the 565 and the 545 KK but want to keep it on the smaller side for single handed launch/retreive


Fantastic choice, have you had that priced up?

Hit Fishwhisperer up and ask some questions, he owns I think the old 550c model. He seems to use the fantastic FC430 a lot more lately but that isnt because the 550c isnt good, just the smaller boat is filling his needs it seems at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 10:16pm
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Originally posted by Perchase Perchase wrote:

I have a wee kiwi kraft 440 and it’s an awesome ride for a small boat, well though out and constructed, soft and dry for its size,


Kiwikraft also have a solid deadrise, that would be my second choice for soft riding. Not that any are terrible. But these 2 brands do focus on slicing through waves. Great little boat imo.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Perchase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 7:18pm
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I have a wee kiwi kraft 440 and it’s an awesome ride for a small boat, well though out and constructed, soft and dry for its size, the guy I bought it off now has a 5m frewza which he says is not as soft a ride as my kiwi kraft , that would be my pick, I also talked to a local boat shop owner here in Nelson who said osprey now seem to need a lot of grunt to get them moving, I guess because of the deep v. Maybe have a test ride down there on a kiwi kraft, even a 5m one before coming up here to try an osprey?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2021 at 10:44pm
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Very logical, boat needs vs wants vs expected fishing conditions. A well thought out purchase like this will not disappoint. Now you know photos and decisions around extras is compulsory CJR09 !!!
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2021 at 6:10pm
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Awesome reply fizfisho - thank you

I have decided on the Osprey 520c for all the reasons you outlined above - totally agree on the transom and dead rise design - add 5mm hull std

I contemplated the 565 and the 545 KK but want to keep it on the smaller side for single handed launch/retreive

I didn't want a ht as already have the one pictured above for going out wide and multi nighters - prefer the cuddy with a bimini for the day missions and better visibility with the kids in the water

I guess with regards to my comment about alloy doing everything a glass will but a glass not doing everything an alloy will - for my particular set of circumstances not fishing out wide but hitting the local islands fishing in and around the rocks and foul ground alloy just a little better suited for that imo and a little more confidence inspiring - the alloys give better load capacity as well - limits seem to be at about 375-400kg in the glass at that size vs twice that in the alloy - i think the 520 osprey is rated to 8? adult - 5 max in the same size glass...

Price is comparable between Osprey and KK - Stabi more exxy, nice spec and finishes but lesser design - Frewza great value but lesser design and spec, Frewza could do with refining and evolving their lineup I think they have stagnated in the market - I'm happy to pay the small premium to go to the Osprey for the better design
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2021 at 4:29pm
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Prior to the new gen of Stabis

I would pick Osprey. The larger ones have by far the best transom and entry deadrise of all the other APB's. All are good, but if you battling wind against tide you will experience a lot of chop, which is really the domain of Glass boats, or their strength I should say. But the Ospreys handle chop similar to a glass boat.

What you want is weight and a good deadrise. At rest the Osprey settles like the rest and becomes a very stabile platform, due to the shape of the huill, which in most is similar to that of a gullwing, or simply put, reverse chine.

TŪHURA, which is also the name of the otago museum science centre, is a 6.5m Osprey, used by Dunners UNI Marine Biology department.

https://www.otago.ac.nz/otagobulletin/news/otago656616.html

Awesome boat. I know people who use it and they rave over it. Ive seen it when doing some land ecology work near the marine centre out the end of the peninsula. Gorgeous boat in the flesh.

So as an example, the Stabi 1850 only has a transom deadrise of 17deg, the 520c has a 23 deg deadrise.

However to be fair, the stabi is much longer. You should be comparing the 565 with the stabi. The 565 overall length is 590, but take it at the 565 length provided the others are measuring transom to tip of bow only as well.

What is the budget? The osprey 565, you can just do a cuddy like the 520, or you can go the much more comfortable hard top, 565HT.

Have a word to fishwhisperer. Whilst he is busy just using the FC sponsored 430 as its much easier as is just an open boat tinny, he has a 565C. 

The 520C might be ok for bunk, not seen inside one, if it is just all ally or if it has bunks for your family.

The 565HT however is a full queen bunk and you can fit a roller door that can be locked when not in use or if you have gone ashore etc. Hard tops in general are much more conformable in the rough stuff, but also as over nighters. Provide a good place for a porta stove etc. 

You can view all of the boat in this review https://boats.tradeaboat.com.au/News/10018/Osprey_565Ht_Review

It all comes down to your budget........


Your situation is one of the few I would recommend a pontoon over a glass boat, in saying that, glass boats are damn safe provided you got the bilge checked over often and you have 2 batteries etc. There are tooo many good glass boats to recommend you, but if I was to it would be Australian and likely Haines Hunter, Bass Straight or Edencraft. These guys make real offshore boats, including side doors for diving etc. Edencraft have made a reissue of the classic Formula 233 hull, which Haines have made a version of in the past. You cant go too wrong with any of these brands. Im not so familiar with NZ brands, but Fi-Glass have been around a long time, after them, not sure, Tristram, Buccanneer looks nice but not sure about quality. 

But if you know you going to be in rough water around the sounds or out of them, flap, Id be going pontoon, not because ponttons make stability, that is nonsense talk, but because their reserbouancy on the sides means if 100% flooded, there is a good chance you will not roll (any boat can roll in the right ocean) and be able drive off flushing the water out the scuppers over time. Th same of pontoon boats mean hey have hat reverse chine look, combined with beam is what gives them stability, that whole pontoon and stability tin hat thing has been discussed and proven to be fabrication (largely from Stabi marketing) many times over in this forum and elsewhere. But for that safety, you will lose cockpit space/internal beam, 2feet or so.

Originally posted by CJR09 CJR09 wrote:

biggest thing is alloy will do everything the glass can but sacrifices a little comfort

glass in the similar size wont do all the alloy will but is more comfortable


Not sure what you mean there. A Fi-glass dominator (5.1m) will do everything a 5.2m Ally Pontoon will do. I know guys who do 100km round trips in them and Ive been in one with a 2foot chop and it ate it up for lunch. Also had a comfortable cabin. I know guys I use to spear with in Aus who take their old v17l's 80km out to the reef and back again, and that area whilst usually flat due to the reef, if the right wind picks up turns into the same as NZ offshore waters. The only benefit of pontoons (and its negative) are the safety aspect of likely not to roll in a swamping situation. IMO if you get swamped though, the swell will have to be substantial, any hull can roll.

Best of luck with it all, let us know what you nab.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 8:10pm
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Thanks rozboon, reel deal and rusty - pretty much sums it up

I hadnt discounted glass straight off the bat - if steps had read posts above i stated had considered huntsman 550.

Ive come from several glass boats prior to the alloy above and am yet to see any glass keep up with it - and there are many that have tried - size and weight plays a big part in that at 9m and 4200kg dry that helps.

osprey have the best spec'd hull and trans design 5mm and 23° dr - similar to the alloy above with 6mm and 23° dr.

i suspect i will go with the osprey, if the 520 wont fit in budget then ill step it down a size i think - the helm looks to be further forward than the KK and frewza

biggest thing is alloy will do everything the glass can but sacrifices a little comfort

glass in the similar size wont do all the alloy will but is more comfortable

i would rather go with out the comfort and be more confident in my own back yard - foveaux straight and its surrounds is basically the southern ocean - a good day is 0.5-1.0m swell - hell we get that on some of the lakes down here
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rusty360 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2021 at 9:37pm
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The best things about the pontoon boats are the stability, there is really nothing like them, as I'm sure you know the best thing is you can run a much larger deadrise 25deg etc to enjoy a awesome rough water ride then when at rest the pontoons provide the stability. Hence while the RHIB are so good.

A workmate has just brought kiwikraft and really rates it! Rides really well very nicely finished.

The two stabi crafts I've been on were ok but were a pounding ride 17ft, 22ft ish.


That boat of yours looks a beast.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2021 at 1:51pm
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Osprey is popular in the Pacific islands also. Speaking to a cook island charter operator he said he went to nz and tried all large pontoon alloys available at the time also an extreme and surtees. He now has his second Osprey. He claimed as there is no coastguard etc where he lives he needed a unsinkable boat so pontoon for client peace of mind was the go. He is often a long way home in all sorts of seas and needed a safe comfortable boat that could give the best ride Osprey was the only pontoon that did it all. Ospreys do most of the taxi work in the sounds also though that could be a financial deal or something 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rozboon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2021 at 10:49am
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There's a reason all the boats built in the deep south are alloy pontoon boats. I don't know what it is, as I've never gone boating down there, but there is presumably some logic behind it.

I think there's "goes well through a 50cm chop" where glass excels, vs. "gets you home safely in some insane washing machine conditions"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 8:20pm
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OK - just to clarify when I mentioned girls

 I didnt give your mention a thought..
Its a very general overall comment to the subject... something when one asks around guys, they give a blank look in most cases.

 Have been out in a few of these pontoons with low sides.. definately not my cuppa tea.
 Pulling in the dredge, lot water in the boat....upto ankles...wetter than launching /retieve our boat on a bad day.
 Dunno....If I pull the bung back at the ramp, and more than a couple cups pour out... lets not forget the high pressure wash down pump we use...If starting to check the keel strip screws , bung O rings Embarrassed
But thats just me.. water is meant to be on the other side of the hull
Ermm

We where heading out over the bar couple weeks ago, a stabi and not sure the other alloy boat...Anyway gave them a good head start, logged the crossing, and off.
It was not long that we had caught up, they where struggling not to thump, we not even thumping. Couldnt pass, even thu thats not good practice on a bar.
 And thats not the 1st time things like that happen when chops up..with other boats , bigger more power and struggle... or hero crashing thru to keep up with an old glass boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 7:50pm
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OK - just to clarify when I mentioned girls above in my opening post i was referencing my daughter and her friend who come out fishing with the dads- my misses hasn't touched foot on the current ride and doubt she ever will other than in summer for the odd tiki tour and the odd biscuit/waterski

i hear what you are saying re the older glass boats - my bonito is the same, great ride handles the chop real well - pontoons can do the same though and the other vessel mentioned in my OP does just that - the osprey and KK are real close in design to that, stabi and frewza not so much.




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 7:24pm
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Been in a glass boat that had a hole ripped in the hull on the river.. Young chap at the time..
 Grandfather counted to 10 slowly, then paniced in an orderly manner, pulled the bung, hit the gas.
 
Pontoon boats are great etc, If the pontoons are in good order.
 older boats one just doesnt know.. and a few posts here about cracks and stuff.
Glass boats same.. If flotation , and/or flotation compartments in good order...
 If older boat , bit worried, fill up under the gunnels.

Its a bit like how the Fire Service keeps telling use to have an evacuation plan... Same with CG, and a charter boats..
 Have an evacuation plan.. life jackets , epirp etc.

To right off glass boats because dont have pontoons...
 Really?
Oh and throw in another thing, a well built glass boat will be around decades longer than an alloy....And are.

 If want a good saltwater sea boat.. look at the Sea nymph and older haines side on profile.. the angle the bow, in chop where hits the waves.. steep...

 Something was told many yrs back, as a kid, when behind the helm...
 Ladies have parts we dont, a good hull, with soft ride (glass), well powered and considerate skipper thrown in...will travel faster and more comfortable for the ladies than a alloy /pontoon.
 And that is a BIG reason why so many ladies thu keen at 1st, boats end up being fishing platforms for the guys.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote neil_cb125t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 5:27pm
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I bring you the glass pontoon - sadly for you made in hamilton. 


I have one 530ute (5.8 long), love it, rides better with 4 people in it than 2, fishes 3 happily 4 if you play nice. ........no one sells them 2nd hand ever.......

600 version if you want more room

could go on about them all day but people would get bored. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 12:23pm
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Regarding the glass boats - we only have 3 dealers in town and another one regionally - i want to stay local to avoid hassle down the track of anything needed work - my only exception to that is the osprey which i doubt there would be any prob and at least they are still in the south island - they may be too pricey for me anyway won't find out until next week

I tend to agree with you onewaytraffic - and some of the glass boats don't have very good looking trans either imo

Local dealers have the below in glass:

Figlass - cavalier and lightning

Smuggler - sprint and sting

Huntsman - dorado and 550

Buccaneer - 530 and 565 exess

Some others maybe worth considering? Mclay are semi local - the 571 looks good value - also one of the dealers is extreme and the 545 looks good but pricey
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 12:18pm
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Building a cored fibreglass boat myself I trust the material if well built, and care taken to ensure water doesn't get to any wood in the build. 

However if I was boating down there I'd still prefer an Aluminium hull. Not so much because of the strength or weight but because they come in pontoon designs with lots of above floor buoyancy, and generally glass boats don't. I put some in the sides of my old glass boat because I wanted a bit more safety factor. 
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