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Foreshore and Seabed - first deal?

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    Posted: 28 Aug 2018 at 4:01pm
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http://gisborneherald.co.nz/localnews/3486798-135/next-stage-in-ngati-porous-foreshore

Anyone know what sort of 'rights' are being transferred as part of this deal. Didn't even know this was happening until I stumbled across an article about it today.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 10:00am
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I understand this is the only Maori claim to special rights over the shore and sea, that was agreed to under the old Labour government foreshore and seabed Act. It had not been ratified by parliament, when Labour got turfed by National and the Maori party. It was progressed by National, but not finally (probably because they thought they might get more under nationals new Marine and Coastal Act ; and then (9 years later), Labour got back in again, and they have progressed the bill that (a) offers Ngati Porou rights to the coast, and (b) also lets them apply for anything they might like under the new MACA. Phew!
I have looked at this Act (since repealed), and it would take a super-human to make any sense of it! I can not find any right to propose or enforce any regulations over taking of sea life. It does not provide power to veto resource consent applications. It does allow charging for customary activities (eg selling sea life). It does provide power to exclude anyone from areas designated "Wahi Tapu" (sacred).
 
The later MACA, provides additionally the power to veto resource consents; but still does not allow regulating taking of sea-life (except in Wahi Tapu sacred areas). 
 
There is another Act "Fisheries (Kaimoana Customary Fishing) Regulations 1998
that provides power to set regulations over taking of sea life (subject to approval by a Minister). There are a few "mataitai" areas established under this Act, called Rohe Moana - they are shown at

http://www.nabis.govt.nz/Map.aspx?Layer=Rohe%20Moana%20Boundaries

Its a huge mess. I challenge anyone to understand what is happening and what it actually means in practice.
 
Even though it appears this Ngati Porou application does not actually give them much power over others - remember that they can push for more power in future. I believe that is the major threat - once getting recognition to a "title" to the area, there will be an on-going political push for greater power, until eventually you will not be allowed to go in there, full stop! How did that happen? we will say - because we did not stand up and object at the start.
 
Reflect on one thing - this Labour government (with collusion from NZ First and Greens), has allowed the Ngati Porou application to be considered by their maori affairs select committee. What a rort, that's like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse! obviously they will rubber stamp it, ignoring objections.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 12:29pm
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It seemed strange when I tried to understand the article. Lots of backwards and forwards about F&S vs MACA etc. One thing you can be sure of is that if this group get any 'desirable' special rights under this deal there will be a whole lot of other groups wanting to go to court to prove that they should get the same deal. Like a first wee leak in the dam wall if this government doesn't manage it properly. 

I would love to think that all of this would lead to be better managed fisheries and better eco-systems etc but a 14 year old boy getting shot at while surfing last week tends to suggest that we should expect otherwise once any sense of 'ownership' applies. This is likely going to become a very divisive part of NZ's future instead of the 'healing process' that the government is trying to portray. Helen Clark recognised that, so why can't the current generation of political leaders.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 3:06pm
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Tagit, I think the door has closed and the MACA are only considering the applications filed in time - prior to April 2017. 

Although the process might be long - 385 applications received to the Crown and 202 to the High Court - no further groups can get in for the same deal as it is all about proving you have exclusive and historically used the area since 1840. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 4:11pm
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Nearly 600 applications, Can you imagine how many $100's of millions that is going to cost the country to process. Every man & his dog filing for everything they can think of. Just trying to sort these down to the few cases that should be properly considered under the stupid laws that were written will takes years, cause massive social issues, and cost a ridiculous amount of money that could be going into social support that actually might improve a few lives. All that before you even start dealing with the potentially real cases.

Imagine how many groups will have already convinced themselves of the rightness of their cause and that they already own the areas they are trying to claim. Whole thing is just very scary.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 6:44pm
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Simple fact is....wait for it...




Two laws for us and them.
So much for "we are one people" treaty tripe talk.
Its a sad reality but its fact,its happening and its going to get a lot worse. Glad it wasn't my son that was shot at...and the gutless sods that shot at the boy would be even happier it wasnt my son. We should have a different law system for those that think NZ law doesn't apply cause they don't recognise the current rules of law.
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CrayZfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 12:35pm
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Its started, wait now for the flood of court cases giving more rights to some than others to our coastline. The fact there were 12 other claims to the same area should have made all claims of exclusive and continuous use since 1840 Null and Void. But nope.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/whakatohea-hapu-win-customary-marine-title-case/RDOSSVK3OATD6APOOLKSVIXRYI/

"The court has found that territorial local authorities providing resource consents to people to use foreshore and seabed doesn't extinguish Māori ownership and rights to the same foreshore and seabed subject of that resource consent," she said.

Who's area is next...
Why choose either diving or fishing when you can do both. Besides crayfish tail is very good bait!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote kaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 1:33pm
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Originally posted by fish-feeder fish-feeder wrote:

Simple fact is....wait for it...




Two laws for us and them.
So much for "we are one people" treaty tripe talk.
Its a sad reality but its fact,its happening and its going to get a lot worse. Glad it wasn't my son that was shot at...and the gutless sods that shot at the boy would be even happier it wasnt my son. We should have a different law system for those that think NZ law doesn't apply cause they don't recognise the current rules of law.


I see you said this in 2018 fish feeder
How correct you seem to have been
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 4:08pm
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They have to allow public access but for how long??They will work with commercial fishers,you catch we will take koha,This is only a start.As said now Labour is Governing alone whats next??
Give it 10/20 yrs we will have reverse apartied.

Wait already starting with a seperate health board.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 4:43pm
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10-20 years is a bit optimistic.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (6) Likes(6)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 4:48pm
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It's not "if", it's "when".
I am so heartily sick of seeing special privelige being given to a small group here, who are apparently disadvantaged.
The disadvantage they have comes from the way of life their families have adopted. The lack of appreciation of the values of education and hard work.
Now in my mind, the biggest disadvantaged group is European men. There is virtually no support systems in place for them, no special grants if they don't achieve at school, no reserved places just for euro men on courses, literally no recognition of the statistics of men being the victims of domestic abuse, nobattered men's shelters..and the suicide stats speak for much of this, yet apparently they are "priveliged"

Back on topic, how long until 95%are working for the benefit of this minority group, who won't step up and own their own issues and history, and stump up money to fix them.

Rant over.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (5) Likes(5)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 7:36pm
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Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

They have to allow public access but for how long??They will work with commercial fishers,you catch we will take koha,This is only a start.As said now Labour is Governing alone whats next??
Give it 10/20 yrs we will have reverse apartied.

Wait already starting with a seperate health board.

We have all accepted separatism and apartheid under the guise of positive discrimination for decades now. 
There are many old and irrelevant Maori spiritual values and practices which have been inserted into and have an effect on every ones daily lives.
Usually with a financial tithe attached.
Why are you surprised at this latest move?
We already have separate educational systems, separate sports systems/teams, separate TV channels, separate radio stations, different qualification marks for university complete with designated seats available, different tax regimes for Treaty settlements, a raced based Tribunal financed by the taxpayer, a minister for Maori affairs and a racially based political party et al.
They have also just added compulsory Maori tikanga to all core legal courses which is already in teaching and medicine.
This Labour Government is hatching a plan for separatism in all aspects of Government with New Zealanders of Maori descent having the power of veto over everything.
They would like to have this plan implemented by 2040.
That is approx. 15% of the population having at least 50% say and demands on resources with the power of a final veto over the rest.
Does that sound like a partnership?
This is the result of misrepresenting the Treaty as a partnership and no one having the cajones to stand up and say enough is enough.
Apparently Labour are just carrying on with what National signed us up to with the UN and it indigenous peoples policy.
Ironic considering early Maori were colonizers and had to lobby the UN to achieve the title of indigenous.
Almost forgot, we are also going to have to put up with a very heavily biased history curriculum.
The fun is just beginning.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 8:09am
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I'm not even going to say what I think the end game is....it's pretty self evident if you look at the basics. All the "be less white" agenda based media that's happening in different countries,does it sound familiar now?.
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CrayZfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 12:38pm
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/consents-flood-in-iwi-want-money-and-standing-from-taranaki-regional-council/A3ZCC5S5CJQIQ5ZABBGUBOAQTQ/
 
More from our no1 newspaper. Soon to be Iwi partnership in every authority, and then the money trail will follow.
 
"No disrespect to the relationship of existing iwi and hapū with some specific Taranaki Regional Council officers, however at a strategic and at a governance level this relationship is lacking."
 
"Tuuta said Te Ātiawa would prefer the council to see the iwi and its hapū and marae as partners to achieve better outcomes, rather than just a group it has to consult."
 
Why choose either diving or fishing when you can do both. Besides crayfish tail is very good bait!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Derek F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 5:02pm
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Frantically searching for a black sheep in my family history somewhereSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 5:40pm
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Originally posted by Derek F Derek F wrote:

Frantically searching for a black sheep in my family history somewhereSmile

I have mates who done that to their kid's advantage. Financially comfortable hospital doctors who have zero interest in all things Maori apart from distant family history. It highlights how ridiculous race-based laws are more worryingly, the advantage isn't going where it is really needed. I don't blame the individuals, I blame the system.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 5:45pm
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Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Originally posted by Derek F Derek F wrote:

Frantically searching for a black sheep in my family history somewhereSmile

I have mates who done that to their kid's advantage. Financially comfortable hospital doctors who have zero interest in all things Maori apart from distant family history. It highlights how ridiculous race-based laws are more worryingly, the advantage isn't going where it is really needed. I don't blame the individuals, I blame the system.
Correct.
That is why those New Zealanders of Maori descent who have taken advantage of all New Zealand as to offer and done well are staying silent as they will now have double the options for advancement/help than the other approx 85% of the country. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 5:51pm
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If we all identify as Maori can they object?
And if they do so well they look like hypocrites.
It is well worth considering....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 6:34pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

If we all identify as Maori can they object?
And if they do so well they look like hypocrites.
It is well worth considering....

I already consider myself Tangata Whenua as I am a 5th generation New Zealander with access to no other passport apart for the New Zealand one. Unlike many New Zealanders of Maori descent who travel on foreign passports. Usually British. Ironic aye?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 7:34pm
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Originally posted by Derek F Derek F wrote:

Frantically searching for a black sheep in my family history somewhereSmile
dead easy.vusit tuhono site.fill form in and presto.i am Tainui and on Hauraki Electrol roll.cannot beat them so join them.oh you are helping to pay for my boys uni at Auckland in the medical field. And they send you a card with a number All good bro
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