Time for a new motor

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    Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 6:17am
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My poor old boat had an engine failure on Sunday, an ominous knocking noise coming from the E-Tec. I made the call to head for home. The knocking suddenly stopped but we kept on going to get off the banks and into the channel as there was an out going tide. About 4km from the boat ramp the engine died with a loud clattering noise.

Coastguard to the rescue!

The boat is a 5.5m Sea Boss and was a little underpowered with the 90hp. Although it didn't manage the Manukau bar a little more horsepower would have been nice. So I'm going with a 115hp 4 stroke. The 115hp Mecury with the Command Thrust gbox and bigger SS prop looks good to me. It is also the lightest of the big four, the Honda being a little porky- 5okg up on the Merc.

Any thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Snappa Geoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 6:58am
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Hi Smudge! My thoughts- Buy a Yamaha.. Have had a new Merc on me Mac Boat which was rubbish compared to Yamaha.  Just purchased a new one as well to see me out into my pensioner years!!Beer
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I have a Mercury 115HP on my 5.6m aluminium boat (purchased together 2.5 years ago). Mercury is not a Command Thrust model. No complaints at all. It's been smooth and reliable. Fuel efficiency is 2.-2.4 km/L on the plane at around 40km/h. No issues getting it on the plane, but it does take a moment longer if the boat is heavily laden.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 7:45am
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I have bought new a Yamaha 150 and Mercury 150 on different boats. 
Liked the Mercury much more. Did about 100 hrs on each motor. After 10hrs the Yamaha tilt switch stopped working on the remote but still worked off the motor,  Answer to this issue, my fault because I must have been operating the remotes with wet hands and salt water has entered the mechanism, quite common I was told. Would supply part under warranty but installation my cost, est $1000.
After a brief discussion they agreed to fix it. Went well after that.
Mercury was quieter and used less fuel on similar sized boats. Mercury was cheaper as well and has a longer warranty.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 7:49am
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Smudge, mate has the Mercury CT on his 6.1 Surtees and hes pretty happy with it
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dagwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 7:49am
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Went through this in 2021 and while I've always been a pretty solid Yamaha fan, I tried to be a little less emotional.

Ended up with a 100hp Mercury. It put a bigger tick in these boxes for me:
  • Warranty
  • Displacement
  • Maintenance free valve train - no cam belt
  • Local agent has a pretty good reputation
There might have been more - at the time I did a spreadsheet to compare what was out there.

So far it hasn't missed a beat although it's not clocking up the hours anticipated but that's another story.
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Originally posted by pompey pompey wrote:

I have bought new a Yamaha 150 and Mercury 150 on different boats. 
Liked the Mercury much more. Did about 100 hrs on each motor. After 10hrs the Yamaha tilt switch stopped working on the remote but still worked off the motor,  Answer to this issue, my fault because I must have been operating the remotes with wet hands and salt water has entered the mechanism, quite common I was told. Would supply part under warranty but installation my cost, est $1000.
After a brief discussion they agreed to fix it. Went well after that.
Mercury was quieter and used less fuel on similar sized boats. Mercury was cheaper as well and has a longer warranty.
Glad I have a merc/mariner.Throttle/ tilt gets spray on it all the time..
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 11:20am
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what about honda. my honda hasnt missed a beat since new 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mc Tool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 11:48am
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Originally posted by pompey pompey wrote:

After 10hrs the Yamaha tilt switch stopped working on the remote but still worked off the motor,  Answer to this issue, my fault because I must have been operating the remotes with wet hands and salt water has entered the mechanism, quite common I was told. Would supply part under warranty but installation my cost, est $1000.
After a brief discussion they agreed to fix it. Went well after that.
.
 wet hands on a shift lever ......... who woulld have thought ?
 Unless it came with a hand towel and a wee sticker   warning you of this design flaw ...... they bloody well should have fixed it Smile an anyhow I aint never heard of that before 
I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 12:52pm
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Originally posted by Mc Tool Mc Tool wrote:

[QUOTE=pompey]After 10hrs the Yamaha tilt switch stopped working on the remote but still worked off the motor,  Answer to this issue, my fault because I must have been operating the remotes with wet hands and salt water has entered the mechanism, quite common I was told. Would supply part under warranty but installation my cost, est $1000.
After a brief discussion they agreed to fix it. Went well after that.
.
 wet hands on a shift lever ......... who woulld have thought ?
 Unless it came with a hand towel and a wee sticker   warning you of this design flaw ...... they bloody well should have fixed it Smile an anyhow I aint never heard of that before 

They fixed it but not until I exploded and again had to threaten to publicise that nonsense as far and wide as I could.
It went like this.
" Are you a diver?'   No

' Well, you must have been operating the boat with wet hands. This problem is quit common and you need to ensure your hands are dry when driving the boat as water gets into the trim function from the throttle'. ' Are you going to fix it or not"

Yamaha will supply the part but it's a big job to replace, have to disconnect all the remotes from the engine, will cost you about $1000 for labour" 
' You must think I'm a f-cking idiot,  fix it or I'll tell the media Yamaha outboards must only be operated with dry hands to avoid warranty claims being rejected.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 1:16pm
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Etec,s are great when they are running. I had a 150 on my Marco 650 and it eventually become too unreliable especially when bar crossings involved. I replaced it with a Honda 150 and it was slow on takeoff, in fact I struggled to get it on the plane when 5 people onboard. I ended up switching to a smaller prop (smaller than the Etec had) and that helped quite a bit. The Honda or any of the 4 strokes will never compete with a 2 stroke on hole shot.
The 4 stroke Merc with the bigger prop will probably struggle to accelerate to your liking too. I would consider going even bigger than 115 if possible to ensure you have enough power when needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 2:16pm
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Thanks guys. My hull is rated to 115hp and I'm expecting a performance increase as it is a 25% power increase. Two strokes definitely perform well but my E-Tec was never propped to its best and also sat a little low in the water. I messed about with it but in the end settled with how it was. $600 plus a year as an estimate on XD100 will probably help cover the servicing costs.

I've kind of ruled the Honda out due to the weight, almost 60kg heavier. They are undoubtedly a great motor and will handle a load of hours. 

Yamaha appear to be a little more expensive, but will be seeking a price from them, same with Suzuki although I'm not sure where the closest dealers are.

My first choice at the moment is Mercury for two reasons, I know a few people with them and the local agents are sponsors of some of our club comps as are the local Yamaha agents.

What are servicing costs for the big 4? Is one brand generally cheaper to service?  I ask because my Triton ute came with a 10 year warranty but the servicing costs are horrific. Typically $900 to $1200 a shot.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rowboat bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 3:48pm
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Hi Smudge , Get the Mercury 115 , I wouldn't bother with the Command Thrust as more for big loads , barges or those weird American pontoon boats. If you can find one,  get the XS version , good for 125hp apparently , still rated 115. I've had that motor on my 5.6m Marlborough ( heavy fibreglass boat ) for 7 years now and it is a beast . Super reliable , starts first time every time which is very important for the west coast. I've done plenty of Manukau bar crossings with it . I did lots of research before buying it,  and what I liked the most was the simplicity , ie . less moving parts than the multi valve Suzuki's and Yamahas , but bigger cylinder size , resulting in the lightest motor in its class , the most torque , most fuel efficient and the least maintenance so lowest servicing costs . They call it lazy horse power , so less to go wrong. To top it all off , they have been designed for anyone to do their own servicing , which I'll probably do after retiring. I'm averaging 10L an hour for all motoring which is mainly doing between 3000rpm for 16knots just on the plane if lumpy or 4000rpm for 24kn , with the odd burst of 5800rpm doing 38kn. . Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rowboat bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 4:08pm
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I just looked it up and the Pro XS version is a bit over $3k more . I bought mine as a boat show display model special, so it was heavily discounted . It's probably not worth it as the real advantage of them is the extra revs they can do , out to 6300rpm which you can't ever really use as you'd be flying ( literally) and a battery monitor built in to up the idle to faster charge a flagging battery.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BotStomper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 4:10pm
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My top secret excel spreadsheet says you'll need twin 300s to fit my arbitrary "well powered" definition. It's like your Mrs car driving up a hill with a boot load of shopping. Or something like that anyway, I forget. Where's a guru when you need one?


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Schampy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 4:57pm
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"Mercury might get  you there first. But at least  Yamaha will get you home again."
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rowboat bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 6:01pm
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That's just a slogan and quite likely incorrect . The fewer moving parts an engine has the more reliable it will probably be. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 6:39pm
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Is the Merc 115 the same block as the 90?
I think it used to be. Am considering same scenario, but need a 90. The Merc 115 put me off that option - for that reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rowboat bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 7:20pm
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The Merc 75 , 90 and 115 are all the same block . Why would the 115 put you off ?  These new generation Merc motors have been out about 8 years and way better than the past . Most owners rate them , I certainly do
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 7:43pm
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Originally posted by BotStomper BotStomper wrote:

My top secret excel spreadsheet says you'll need twin 300s to fit my arbitrary "well powered" definition. It's like your Mrs car driving up a hill with a boot load of shopping. Or something like that anyway, I forget. Where's a guru when you need one?



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