The Tongariro Roll Cast

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 8:33am
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Originally posted by Chris Dore Chris Dore wrote:

Originally posted by Tore Tore wrote:

Obviously Chris doesn't believe in any of these fairytales either, but he's a better diplomat than I. Clap
 
 
Now I didnt actually say that. Having played with rolls and speys with Paul and Hayesie however I would like to see this approach to single handed spey. You dont often see the TRC on the Mataura down here. These guys have above shared an interest in helping people improve and opening their minds, I would just like to hear their input and see the results. As an instructor, I generally recognise three effective ways of teaching. Audible, visual, and by feel.
 
Im a visual learner.
 
All in the interest of opening our minds Smile

 out of interest do you use the waterfall technique in your teachings ? :D 


 And sorry guys this has blown off topic 

 TRC is all G 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 9:18am
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Originally posted by Chris Dore Chris Dore wrote:

Originally posted by Tore Tore wrote:

Obviously Chris doesn't believe in any of these fairytales either, but he's a better diplomat than I. Clap
 
 
Now I didnt actually say that. Having played with rolls and speys with Paul and Hayesie however I would like to see this approach to single handed spey. You dont often see the TRC on the Mataura down here. These guys have above shared an interest in helping people improve and opening their minds, I would just like to hear their input and see the results. As an instructor, I generally recognise three effective ways of teaching. Audible, visual, and by feel.
 
Im a visual learner.
 
All in the interest of opening our minds Smile
 
LOL
 
Open minds are good. Simple minds seem happier though...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote photog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 10:15am
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Sorry Chris I used to have  some vids of this and the full line mend, I'd did them in conjunction with Peter Hayes a few years ago. You probably know Peter, a great caster from Tasmania. Pete was also surprised at the distance achieved with the bombs, both with the roll cast and overhead. Unfortunately I can't find the vids.
 
I must admit personally I used the Belgian cast far more the the roll cast but haven't thrown a fly line for 5 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 10:20am
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Ive taught the 1 inch waterfall a couple of times since peter showed it to me but most clients get it when i ask simply for a long smooth lift. The waterfall would be handy to settle down 'snatchers' in my methodology
Chris Dore
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 10:37am
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Hookerpuka    You need to be a bit careful when waxing forth about the Rangitikai or any of the great head water fisheries of the NI.    Here are a couple of photos from the early sixties    The rod is a Kilwell Blue Hawk and the boots are Anson with no slip horse shoe nails if that means anything to you.    
 
Rainbow
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 10:46am
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@Chris. useful for those that cant perceive what slow lift and accelerate is I found. only mentioned it because you mentioned Peter. Nice guy with a very pretty cast. very much a traditionalist in his styles and methods. He went through a little learning curve on the tonga with heavier flies as well :D 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 10:54am
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Originally posted by Rainbow Rainbow wrote:

Hookerpuka    You need to be a bit careful when waxing forth about the Rangitikai or any of the great head water fisheries of the NI.    Here are a couple of photos from the early sixties    The rod is a Kilwell Blue Hawk and the boots are Anson with no slip horse shoe nails if that means anything to you.    
 
Rainbow

 You were just about as ugly then as you are now... Hopefully the respect for the back country and it prestigious fish has improved from those days though... especially out of the top end of any of them.  
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 Hopefully the respect for the back country and it prestigious fish has improved from those days though... especially out of the top end of any of them.  
[/QUOTE]
 
Not so sure about that one.   All summer long every one of those head waters is bombarded with choppers bearing Simms'ed out parties that hammer the same resident fish over and over.   As one guide told me: "These fish have made me a lot of money".      In the early days  fisherman did not know any better but at least they used to eat what they caught, nowadays fish have become mere animated toys, with the pleasure strickly onesided.    The same circus goes on with kingies, especially up your end.    
 
When you climb down from your pedestal and think about all this a bit deeper you will realise that none of us are blame free.
 
Rainbow
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 3:16pm
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Pedestal or realization of what an exceptional resource the trout are in NZ for both the economy and enjoyment...? we can agree to disagree on this one. just imagine Herb without these trout in our water how much smaller door ways you would be able to fit through and how little you would have to write about talk about etc...

 Sweden and its catch and release is bad crap is ------------> that way....  you guys musta been pretty hungry that day in your photo aye.... I dont begrudge anybody for keeping a feed out of the tonga's etc, but back country resident fish were there's a couple of fish to a pool? 


 Your not the only one that can try and bedazzle with fine photo's of nice fish caught over the years, difference being mine are generally alive. 
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Originally posted by Rainbow Rainbow wrote:

Hookerpuka    You need to be a bit careful when waxing forth about the Rangitikai or any of the great head water fisheries of the NI.    Here are a couple of photos from the early sixties    The rod is a Kilwell Blue Hawk and the boots are Anson with no slip horse shoe nails if that means anything to you.    
Rainbow
Sorry I really need this one explaining. Secondly why you would need to kill so many fish out of a headwater fishery.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 4:15pm
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Back on the pulpit again, Hookerpuka.    Those pictures were taken almost 50 years ago when you were probably still playing in the sand pit.     I took us a week to fish up from Springvale to the Mangamaire, climbing around bluffs, swimming the river with our rods clamped between the teeth and fly camping under a bit of canvas.     Same on the Mohaka, Ngararoro, Ikewhatea, Taurau, Upper Ruakituri and many lesser bush rivers.    I don't need you to lecture me about the back blocks, flcasting, fishing or fisheries conservation.    You obviously don't know when C&R was introduced to NZ by "Trout Unlimited" but it was not that long ago.    If you cant help yourself judging previous generations by today's standards than dont get upset to get the same treatment from some not yet born tadpole. 
 
When I came to NZ in 1960 I found a land of Deer Bomb Ups and fishing camps full of pressure cookers and Agee preserving jars.    
 
BTW when is your DVD or book on fly casting coming out?
 
Rainbow
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2011 at 4:53pm
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Guess when I haven't got better thing to do..

 It's not about how old the photo's are. its your attitude towards the concept of C@R
Quote nowadays fish have become mere animated toys, with the pleasure strickly onesided.    The same circus goes on with kingies, especially up your end.    
like I said I have my theories and you have yours. agree to disagree. 

 Also I did put improved since back then ...fully giving credit to the fact that back then T@R wasn't really practiced
Quote Hopefully the respect for the back country and it prestigious fish has improved from those days though... especially out of the top end of any of them.


 ADMIN can you please delete my posts out of this thread when you see this... its a valuble thread thats been blown out by rando posts from myself and herb arguing about the fundamentals of fried chicken... delete and return this back to an on track thread please and herbs if he agrees :D 

 thanks 
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Rainbow, what is your problem. Need your ego stroking!!
It's good that you are trying to get across to people the principle of a cast. Unfortunately I feel the technicalities of it in writing  ( no matter who writes it ) is to difficult for most to visualise.
 
 And please stop telling people that some thing can't be done just because you can't do it.  We only use #7 weight on the Tongariro and Mike would outcast me and most with the TRC including you. Now the Belgiun I would rip you all up by a good few metres. So stop bad mouthing people just because they do it different to you.
 
And what the hell has writing a book got to do with it. I can remember the first trout book I bought was by a guy called Geoffrey Bucknall. Within 2 years I'd thrown it away and rewritten every chapter. So just like bad fishermen there are bad authors so your point was.
 
SmileSo lighten up a little so others may learn, stop making it about YOUSmile Share what you have and leave others to share theirs. So lets get back to casting. please!!Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2011 at 9:15pm
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On my recent trip to the Tongariro I did some of my best TRC's with wait for it:   a 8'6/4 #6 Kilwell Innovation I made up years ago teamed up with a #8 Cortland 555 I also had for about 10 years.    It is a fantastic combo that cast a 2.5 gram sinker ( would not call this a bomb anymore) right across the lower bridge pool from the town side.    Just shows you that we all get too hung up with the latest and greatest.
 
The combo was so sweet that I fished with it most of the week in preferrence to my bigger outfit.
 
In the process I also discovered that I now set up the TRC differently from what the locals do.   It is without doubt the ideal cast for the Tongariro.
 
Rainbow
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Toad2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2011 at 10:04pm
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Hey Herb,
Thanks for the Clinic last weekend. I learnt heaps and now my casting has improved heaps as well.
Whats this new setup you've got? DId try out the tongariro roll cast on the river and got a few, as you said very easy on the body. Now just gotta improve it haha!
Cheers,
Craig( One of the boys)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 9:30pm
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Toad2   I always roll the line onto the water in the direction I want the cast to go.   I then slip some line as I pull the indicator in position that also straightens the line lying on the water.    The line points in the direction of the target.   Then I fold the line beside and behind me and never over the indicator.    This narrow fold causes little splash (white mouse) during DLoop forming.     It is important not to look at the target during the later stages of the cast ( that placement has already been made earlier on) but to concentrate to lift point P as close to the indicator to reduce exessive anchorage before launching the delivery cast.    
 
It is all a bit of a mouthfull but in practice it becomes a smooth transition.    
 
Hope you keep practicing often because success comes only in small increments.
 
Cheers
 
Rainbow
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2012 at 11:21pm
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Herb, why do you use 2 weights up of fly line on the rod your using, effectively making the rod useless for most other casts? With the exception of the obvious easier loading off the D loop do you have another reason for doing it since you can do it with out going up in line weight... Had someone ask me what your reasoning was for it the other day. I assumed it was laziness (not meaning that in a derogatory way) meaning that you can be lazy with your cast.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2012 at 7:27pm
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Quite simply im assuming he is soley putting more weight into his D loop, quite standard practise internationally when spey casting.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Jet_ski_fisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2012 at 4:15pm
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I use to use this casting aint done it in 10years or so.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2012 at 9:45pm
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TRC is way more effective than the standard roll. so are the snake roll and double D etc. especially when it comes to weighty flies. 
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