The Tongariro Roll Cast

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 1:37pm
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Kyle Adams demonstrating the TRC at the August Trout Fest in Turangi.      Note the parallel placement of the slipped line.    Everything has to be in line with delivery cast to the target 
 
Cheers
 
Rainbow
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 4:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 4:49pm
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Hi All      After more then 10 years promoting the TRC through casting clinics at the National Trout Centre and helping dozens of anglers riverside I am pleased to announce that from 2019 The Manic Tackle Company has taken over the promotion of this beautiful New Zealand invented fly cast.  
 
Way back when I first saw it performed I immediately realised its potential and spend a huge amount of time struggling to come to grips with all the details needed to perform it well.   In the process I developed my own style which is somewhat different to that of the originators I tried to copy.    Regardless of style it is not an easy cast to learn and for that reason its userbase has not grown fast.     To make progress easier I developed a 4 phase teaching method, which has been widely adopted.     Throughout that time my main concern has been that with few practitioners this cast could have easily faded away or what would be worse could have been reinvented and renamed by someone from overseas.   
    
Now that its future is secured I can step back and let others continue its advocacy.    For me it is mission accomplished.
 
Rainbow
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Cheeko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 9:12pm
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Nice work Herb and I heard that the day went well from Kyle. Hard to believe its been over 20 years since I was shown the TRC by a couple of the Turangi crew. Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2021 at 7:43pm
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Latest development with a slightly modified  TRC is casting sinking shooting heads with single handed rods.     For that it easier to use a shorter shooting head say 24' for a 9' rod.    

The real issue here is to get as much of the sinking line air born into the D-loop to reduce the anchor as much as possible but without blowing the D--Loop out.     Another problem is that you can hardly see the black shooting head.   This makes it difficult to know the amount of anchor or its best placement.   While practicing I found it helps to attach a big globug to the leader which can be easily seen  and that helps with placing the anchor.    It also provide "stick" and thus prevents the anchor/D-loop from blowing out.    One last tip is to use a near frictionless mono shooting line like the RIo Slick Shooter and not  a  coated floating running line.   The latter has too much resistance that forces the head to turn over sooner and reduces distance.    This also applies to integrated sink tip/head lines. 

However,  there is no substitute for drilling out an overhead cast with a shooting head that easily sails 100' or more.    The TRC is only needed if there is no back cast room.  

Sadly Scientific Anglers have discontinued their sinking shooting heads.    Hard to understand why as they are the ultimate distance rockets.    Then again I am old school and have only recently been told by a few young bloods that I am over the hill and can't adapt to modern fly fishing.    Come to think I have been told the same about 20 years ago by another keyboard warrior.   Luckily I have enough shooting heads to last me until I will drop off the perch.  However,  I hope to  postpone that departure as long as I can if only to annoy the "know-alls".   Just recently I spied a full type 6 sinking line at H&F in Rotorua for $60 which they could not sell.   I quickly bought it and at home turned it into 3 shooting heads of various lengths, and casting weights......... for 20 bucks each.    Not bad!!!

Cheers

Herb






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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2021 at 8:53pm
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One way to pass the 4 lockdown time is to practice casting.    Should have been on the Tongariro by now but level 4 came a few days before my trip.    Never mind will be there in September.     As I have said elsewhere I have practiced roll casting with sinking shooting heads.    My latest heads are 3D+ untra light scandi S2,S4,S6 I hav added a 1m tip of Sink 7 to practice with.    The 1m tip is to increase the sink depth if needed.    The whole head weights only 14 grams with the tip another 1.5grams.   The shooting line is 25lbs high vis mono.  The casting rod is my 9' #7 CD XLS.    I have so far focused using the TRC setup for Spey casting, largely since I am already in that groove with phases and timing.     Since the heads are only 6m with the tip 7m there is no need to slip line.    Instead   I only sweep the line loop forward to create extra anchorage.     All the setup moves are on a low angle to avoid blowing the anchor.   I am quite surprised how easy it is to blow the anchor with this fast sinking shooting head.    I would have thought otherwise.     For my practice I used a large tuft of wool instead of a streamer but have used one in practice before the lockdown.
Luckily we have large grassy park next to our house and with the recent rain a small depression retains a large puddle.     This is my Covid Spey casting practice pond.    I asked my wife to do a bit of filming to show how easy it is to get big distance Spey casting these heads with a single handed rod.    Of course they also overhead cast like a rocket.    The casts averaged about 25 large steps, probably about 75-80'.    Got a bit further on our little lake but that is off limit during the lockdown.   Unfortunately the dark shooting head is impossible to see in flight but you can see how the line rockets out to give you some idea 

Cheers 

Rainbow

  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2021 at 2:08pm
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Unfortunately I can't upload the video clip onto this site but will try to get it on Youtube.
Looking at the TRC which up to now has been only used for upstream nymphing its ability to cast sinking shooting heads adds further to its usefulness for single handed casting.

Cheers

Rainbow

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 7:18pm
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.Good news    I finally uploaded my recent Spey casts with sinking ULS 3D S2,4,6 shooting heads,     The cast on the river were made with an extra 1m S7 tip and a size 4 woolly bugger which is as big as you will ever need for trout in this country.    I looped the extra tip on to see if it was possible so that I could increase the sink rate if needed.   The head cast really well even with a 1.5m S7 tip.     I am sure it will cast well with a single spey, snake roll or perry poke.     However,  since I am already practiced with the TRC with long headed floating lines I simply adapted my set-up for the sinking head.   The main difference is not slipping extra line.    The forward motion puts the water loop forward which increases anchorage and really loads the rod.     No need for a double hander or heavy Skagit outfits.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Stevoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2021 at 9:30pm
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Thanks for your posts Rainbow. I checked out that video and it looks like a very efficient cast with a very compact anchor.

Will also follow your experience with that guideline head, as I have been looking at something like this for a while.

As a ‘less than regular’ contributor here I thought I’d offer an opinion. I started fishing with a 6wt two handed (both full Spey and shorter, switch rod format) for the bigger central nth island rivers. Like an earlier contributor suggested, I think the enjoyment and novelty factor is significant. Id suggest however that a two hander by its nature is mechanically more efficient than a single hand rod.

I’m not an old fella by any means but I’m feeling more fresh after a day on the water with my two hander, and WAY more fresh after two days straight of relentless casting. The pulling action of the bottom hand drives a lot more power, more efficiently than the pushing action of that one hand on the single hand rod, not to mention the torque through that wrist. The increased rod length together with more power from a driving lower hand increases launch speed, and the longer head required for these rods also tends to land the fly further away, due to that extra 10 feet of unfurling. I’d also add that the skagit setup is very useful in the wind - I remember a day on the Whanganui last year skagit casting a wooly bugger on a medium length head and very short (3 foot) leader of 12lb test was the only way to get it out there. Everyone else had given up and gone home.

Similarly, 1 month ago on the tongariro, a short skagit head plus floating tip was the only way to get an indicator rig out into a 40 plus knot headwind. I did however have to land it pretty hard!

Ps I originally wrote this for your other post ‘Why skagit?’ bit having now read the other replies I can see that you were talking more about floating versus sinking heads, so I’ve posted it in here instead 😁
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 2:05pm
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Thanks for the technically reasoned  reply.      In my long experienced fishing for spawning run fish one has to present ones flies to them on the bottom as this is were they rest on their migration to their spawning sites.    You can either do that with a bomb when upstream nymphing or with a sinking line when swinging down and across.    For a long time now the latter has been practiced with sinking shooting heads of varying densities.     Normally these heads are cast overhead but this is not possible with willows etc close behind.     A few of us have practiced roll casting these single density heads which has opened up additional fishing water.    Recently we came across the ULS 3D sinking shooting heads from Guideline, which make distance roll casting much easier.   The difference and I have pointed that our in the Why Skagit thread is that they have the casting weight already integrated in their delta profile whereas the Skagit system has the casting weight in the floating head and the sink weight in the attached tip.    All of the ULS head sinks,   How fast and how deep depends on the density configuration of the triple  sections.     In the Skagit system once the line hits the water the floating casting weight is an impediment as it holds up the sink tip.    To overcome this problem the sink tip needs to be unnecessarily heavy to get down on a steep angle and  often needs help from  a weighted streamer.     As you know tip and head need to be weight balanced otherwise the rig would not cast well.    As a rule of thumb to achieve the same sink with a Skagit outfit head, tip and fly would be twice as heavy than a sinking Uls 3D head or a single density shooting head, none of which requires an additional floating head casting weight,

As you can see from the video clips distance Spey casting  with a 250 grain ULS head is not difficult at all, even with a single hand rod.     The best thing of all is that once the head has landed it sinks and does not skim across the surface spooking fish as a fat floating head does.

Of course the ULS heads can be cast in all the Spey styles with a double hander.    I have not bothered with any other than the TRC set up as I am alread dialed in to that for my upstream nymphing and apart from a few adjustments don't have to learn something new to achieve the same results.  

To be absolutely clear if I can get out to were the the fish are and down to them without the help of  a floating casting weight head then that method make more sense to me.     Try those Guideline 3D heads, you will be pleasantly surprised.

Cheers

Rainbow

   




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Stevoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 4:23pm
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That makes sense Rainbow. Totally agree that it is counterintuitive to use a floating head when you are trying to get down to the fish - it works against the sinking effect of the sink tip, and creates a hinge which also affects bite detection. This is why I use a sinking skagit head such as Airflo FIST (which sinks at 3 ips at the tip). I also use sinking 3D Scandi lines on the two hander, especially in the summer months when i am fishing lighter flies nearer the surface (eg 1 foot below the surface).

I do however like using a single hander for days when it I know that I will be doing a combination of upstream nymphing and also wet lining. I do this regularly especially on a busy day when everyone else is nymphing - in the afternoons I typically wet line/skagit fish my way back downstream to the car, and hit the spots that the nymphers leave alone eg - the tailouts of pools, or runs, that are left alone by the nymphers in water that is difficult to wade, or overgrown with vegetation.

You have got me more curious on those Guideline heads, do you just use a 9 foot rod with those?


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 12:28pm
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I got a lot of 9 footers which I mainly use  for nymphing and wet lining but lately I have tested the TRTCD fly rod combination.   Just yesterday I tried out the 10' essembly with the 14 gram S2/4/6 ULS head with an additional 1m S7 tip and a #4 woolly bugger.     Unfortunately the distance is hard to see in the glare but believe me it flew out a long way.

Cheers

Rainbow

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2021 at 4:48pm
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More Guideline ULS 3D+ S2/4/6 shooting head Spey Casting in New Plymouth.    Also an overhead cast with the same head to show how well they fly 

Cheers 

Rainbow 


https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/614130768

https://vimeo.com/614128552?from=outro-local

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/614127154


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2021 at 9:03pm
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Last weekend I had a chance to Spey cast the fastest sinking ULS 3D shooting head from Guideline, which a friend imported directly from this company in Sweden.   As with other ULS heads I used my TRC set-up but had wondered how I would manage my anchor with this fast sinking head that has a sink rate of S3/S5/S7.   Surprisingly after a few trial casts to refine my timing I found no big anchor management impediments even though there was glare on the water making the black line quite hard to see under water.   With a few adjustments I got the timing dialled in and the casts simply sailed out.   Unfortunately the head was connected to a floating, coated shooting line.  Such a line provides a lot of mass and considerable friction, which causes the short head to turn over too quickly resulting in a considerable loss of distance.     In some of the casts it turned over so quickly that the head nose dived instead of the loop straightening.     It is clear that these short heads really fly with a mono shooting line, which is lighter and creates far less friction.   This is also what Guideline recommends.   This S3-S7 head sinks like a stone and may sink a bit too fast for a normal Tongariro flow but will certainly come into its own when the river is coming down after a good fresh and becomes ideal for swinging streamers.

 Cheers

 Rainbow 

PS    Not surprising I have had quite a few inquiries by mail, phone or in person from people wanting to buy siuch heads.     I have seen some on TRademe but have also heard that a NZ company will bring in some Guideline products.       

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 10:35pm
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Trial cast my new 12 gram ULS 3d fast sinking S3/5/7 shooting head.    Head is a bit light to pull sunken mono shooting line from the water so had to keep big loops in my lips.    Had a mark on my shooting line at 85' and most casts reached that far.   Would go further with a 14 or 16 gram head.     But cant complain most Spey casters I see on the Tongariro dont even get as far as that with their bigger rods.

Cheers

Rainbow


Lot more videos on this link

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2021 at 3:05pm
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Good News!     Sporting Life of Turangi is now selling the Guideline ULS 3D shooting heads.    My recommendations are S1/3/5,   S2/4/6,  S3/5/7   These three will cover most Tongariro situations.     Match line grain weigth to your rod. 
Cheers

Rainbow

Ps Only use mono shooting line such as RiO Slick Shooter or similar.
The ULS heads are only 6m long and braided mono (especially when wet)  or coated shooting lines have too much mass and friction, which turns the heads over too quickly.     This reduces distance considerably.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2021 at 12:59pm
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My latest Spey casting practice in New Plymouth casting the Guideline 12Gram ULS 3D S3/5/7 fastest sinking shooting head with a #6 9' CD XLS rod .   Casting Style is modified Tongariro Roll Cast.   https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WsnvgXNs-Bw

https://youtu.be/QejSNf5_yJ8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S6wvzxdjMXo

Cheers

Rainbow

  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 10:22am
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Visited the Tongariro to take a few photos for my pending article on Skagit fishing and had this video taken by a friend.     Unfortunately it started to rain just as we started filming so this is the only take and not a very good one at that.   However it still shows how these Guideline shooting heads cast with little water disturbance.     Sporting Life has them now for $90.      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bCcacFP71Zo ;

Cheers

Rainbow
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