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The Tongariro Roll Cast

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Manic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2008 at 8:32am
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cool. I originally didn't like a stiff spectra ie fireline. but after falling in love with teh stuff for my SP fishing, I'm heading back that way. The 4lb or 6lb Fireline is uber strong.
 
Powerpro is a great product, so sounds like you've got it nailed.
 
I'm sure in coloured water the bright braid would be fine. However there is no advantage to it as it's under you're indicator.
 
Have you tried the small stainless rings instead of the swivel?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barbary B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2008 at 10:56am
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Havent tried the stainless rings, did use those tiny little micro rings but kept losing the little buggars. I quite like the swivels as they are very streamlined and also the come in black which I also like.

"Look ahead, look astern, look to weather, look to lea
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Manic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2008 at 9:36am
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Hi Andrew
 
I appreciated your comments on indicators. Actually I probably do the same as everyone else....but that is half of the problem. There must be some better ways, with indicators that cast and float better.
 
So no need to appologise for the feedback. I did write the article on drop shot nymphing last year. Although as I mentioned there are still plenty of things that can be improved.
The funny thing is after i wrote the article i thought I would try a new braid, i got so many tangles I ended up switching back to mono. When it's not working, it can be soo frustrating.
 
Anyway I've moving back towards the fireline. I think the primary benefit is the non stretch and the low diameter to mono.
 
Looking forward to hearing how someone's improved on the classic indicators.
 
RV
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote 45kg_puka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2008 at 11:59pm
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They just seem to pick the line up from down river and send a rolling loop across the surface of the river in one easy motion.. not all of us are maori :) ive been doing it for 12years p o piss once you get the swing of things.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2008 at 3:25pm
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Still havent worked out what the huge deal about The tonga roll cast. a bit of real info on it for you though since i know a fare bit about it......
 
  It was originally designed by a couple of guides on the tongariro river..... it started of as a snake roll and has progressed from there.
 
 Guide's like Jamie Davies, Chris Brennan, Mike Burgin (thats me, now retired) and perfected by the likes of Andrew Blake (this boy knows his stuff). it was until recently little used until a newplymouth writer herb spandical (spelling) got a hold of it having learnt it from one of his fishing freinds and ours Carl.
 
  since then its become this huge thing. yes its effective when done right but people miss the point...... if you cant cast a normal over head cast you will never be able to do the tonga roll effectivley, the action required for the front part of the cast is the same, a straight pushing motion, starting at the shoulder from shoulder height and ending at full lengh at shoulder height, no arc and wrist placed at the end of the stroke. required to push the roll out (specially for a full 90-100ft cast), also a haul is required so the need to know how to double haul is essential
 
the rear of the cast is a basic roll cast d loading, and the only real extra peice is the loop over pull back and throw line (anchor)similar to a snake in parts and the same in the fore throw.....
 
 My advice to people that would phone and ask to learn this cast was this..... learn to double haul a full fly+ first nice neat and tidy then look at getting flash.
 
 The TRC also has its draw back's that alot of people dont realise, its noisy, and after a time spooks the fish in the pool. annoys the hell outta me to see people doing it up at otta cannel....... if you are going to learn the TRC dont rig up a 9 weight line on a 7 weight rod, learn to do it correctly and you can cast it on any correctly weighted rod, ie 6 to 6 7 to 7 weight, on any weight forward nymph taper line.....
 
Sorry my 2 cents but had to do it:)
 
120ft over double haul FTW!!!
 
 
Oh and Hi Herb!!!!! havent seen you round for some time... maybe cause i dont do it any more aye!!!!!
 
 Oh HAI Andrew!!!!! hury up and get your ass up here for some real fishing :D teaser for you http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=31215
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote 45kg_puka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2008 at 4:52pm
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thats a good read :) thanks funny you should mention spooking fish, on the lower bridge there is a pool about 20+ft deep and guys always trc it to get up stream and drift thru it. problem is it makes to much noise on the water and spooks em. sure they get em but not as many of the bigger fish deep down and hugging the bottom. thats my 2cents worth :)
thanks again for the trc :)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2008 at 8:22am
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I had always been a bit of a sceptic of this cast, but a session with Herb at the Sage meet has me convinced. It's a beautiful cast and one I'm glad I have in my repoitoire now...
 
Herb addressed the noisy on the water issue, when he did it there wa very little splash, water hiss, disturbance and he related ways to avoid the "white mouse". There was no questioning that when executed properly it wasn't noisy at all....
 
Herb, I eat my words...it's a great cast!!
 
Hardly a ripple.....
www.clarkreid.co.nz   FFF Certified Casting Instructor / Umpqua Designer Tier
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2008 at 10:38am
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Thanks Clark for the compliments especially so when they come from one of New Zealand's greatest allround fly fisher.     Yes, I too was blown away when I first saw it performed and as I struggled on to learn how to do it I began to realise that this home grown cast is perhaps the greatest contribution this country has made to the global family of fly fishing,
 
We need to get our head around this as yet another tool to promote this country in the international fly fishing forums and as a top trout fishing destination.   
 
Besides all that it is a great cast to prolong fly flinging for a few more years for us old codgers with bung knees and worn out shoulder joints.
 
Rainbow
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Manic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2008 at 12:33pm
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Clark
I heard you were throwing some pretty impressive loops at the Sage clinic yourself.

Herb
I totally agree with your comments and Clarks, I think you've been a great ambassador for some new techniques here in NZ and it's a good a healthy thing for the sport.

And as Mike Birgin says they all have their place in our arsenal, at the right time. If it opens up more fishing opportunities then all the better.
Rene Vaz - Manic Tackle Project
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2008 at 4:26pm
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Nice people said something nice about me LOL.
 
Yep, agree with Mike on that also.
 
The week of the Sage meet was one week after my 30th Anniversary of fihsing the Tongariro... Aug 17th 1978 (Or was it '77?) anyway, when I first saw the TRC I thought "I don't need that" it's superfluous, but I was wrong. It won't be how I fish the river as standard but Herb absolutely convinced me as to the merit of it and I can see in the right spot it would help you get to fish I otherwise wouldn't have bothered with.
 
But as much as anything... it's just a beautiful cast!
 
 
www.clarkreid.co.nz   FFF Certified Casting Instructor / Umpqua Designer Tier
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Cheeko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2008 at 10:40am
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Super Mike!! how are you?
 
I like your piece on the roll cast.  From my memories of its origin I remember being shown this cast by Jamie Davies back in 1998 who had been shown by Chris Brennan.  Before that I had not come across it but I had only been fishing the Tongariro for a couple of years. Herb saw myself and Bevan fishing the Silly Pool in 1999 and from there the fascination begun.   It was really effective fishing the Hydro before the big flood of 2004 wiped out most of the possies on the true right!!
 
I agree that unless you are an adequate caster in the first place you will struggle with the TRC more so than someone who is already a good caster.  I have tried showing a few guys it and some pick it up quick and others really battle. 
 
It can be noisy but I have found it can be performed quietly with a 6 weight outfit and WF line and comes in handy in some tight possies on the bigger back country pools. 
 
Are you up north these days? Im here in London for the next year or so which has put the brakes on the fishing.  Went to Norway Salmon fishing a couple months back but the fishing was very slow and we only landed two salmon between six of us.  Beautiful country though and very similar to NZ in places.
 
Being in the UK and watching the fishing programmes over here makes you realise how good NZ's fishing and outdoors really are!
 
And whats with 120FT over double haul FTW? cmon Mike 120FT??
 
Cheers
 
Karl
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mike30738 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2009 at 7:38am
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there is a good videpo on http://www.newzealandfishing.com

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2009 at 8:08am
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Andrew's clips are excellent for those learning new techniques, including his flytying stuff.
 
I fish with him a bit and he knows his stuff.
www.clarkreid.co.nz   FFF Certified Casting Instructor / Umpqua Designer Tier
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2009 at 8:48am
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Originally posted by Clark Reid Clark Reid wrote:

Andrew's clips are excellent for those learning new techniques, including his flytying stuff.
 
I fish with him a bit and he knows his stuff.
 
 Least he isn't your brother in law :P
 
 Yep andrew knows his stuff allright.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2009 at 9:14am
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If you wish to avoid the 'white mouse' and much of the associated disturbance involved with the TRC , or in fact, any spey, simply remember the fundamentals of all fly casting - you must employ a smooth acceleration. Start each movement off slow, and smoothly accelerate to the stop / change of direction. Slide that line across the surface, freeing it of the water tension before lifting. Kind of like the basic overhead pick up: If you rip into it from the get-go, you will soon see how ineffective it is.
 
A good spey caster is a joy to watch - rod is kept in close, and moved in synch with the body, the line moving effortlessly across the surface and out towards the target. They make it look effortless, not like many videos Ive seen online of people attempting to make the cast.
 
Herb has taken a concept, mastered and improved it, and learnt to demonstrate / perform it extremely well.
 
Dont think it ends with the TRC though peoples - there are many spey techniques which can be compiled together to aerialize and deliver heavy flies on a long line. Get out there and practise!
Chris Dore
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2009 at 9:22am
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Originally posted by Nicko Nicko wrote:

but its not just the line its the nut behind the but
 
Haha I like that Nicko - Im going to steal that sometime Wink
Chris Dore
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2009 at 3:20pm
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Anyone interested in learning the Tongariro Roll Cast?
 For the forth year running I am holding a full day TRC casting clinic at the Tongariro Trout Center/Turangi on the 5th of Sept.    All proceeds go to the Tongariro Trout Center Society as my contribution for my many years of wonderful fishing I have enjoyed on this beautiful river.   For Bookings contact Ken Kimmings at the Trout Center or DOC Turangi.
 
Herb Spannagl
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Chris Dore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2009 at 11:53pm
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If I was closer to Turangi I would definatley be interested. What topics are covered over the course of the day Herb?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kiwinoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2010 at 9:44pm
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I ran into a bloke about four or five years ago on the Red Hut who was throwing some massive roll casts from the lower third of the pool up under the bridge and remember thingking that bugger is fishing the length of the pool in a single cast! It struck me, at the time, that this cast is the way nymphing will cross over into true down streaming water. You'll need to deliver heavier flies further upstream and preferably get them out of the water in front of you  to get them down deep and share the water I fish with a T-400.

Anyway I was fishing my way downstream watching the bloke teach another till we about ran into each other, I got out and waited for them to finish, a joy to watch! So I walzed up a little later and inquired as to, 'what the hell sort of cast is that?' and got the reply from Herb. G'day Rainbow!
 
I fish down stream 98% of the time, always have but that day stuck in my mind... I was in Finland this time last year and had the opportunity to fish Teno for Salmon. I thought Herb's casts were impressive!
 
The TRC is a beautiful cast and extremely effective when you consider its been delivered by a single hand rod. If you like this have a look into Spey casting and in particular Scandi and Skagit style casting with Switch rods where our style of nymph fishing is concerned. I thought I could throw a line till I watched these Fins roll massive amounts of line across that river..
 
I am still looking into Skagit & sink tip systems for down stream application, although it looks as though the traditional Tongariro pools might be a bit deep for most of it, but it has made me think OUTSIDE THE SQUARE and I am grateful for the leasson from Herb and the brief time spent in Finalnd. It has opened my eyes and really thrown a cat amongst the kakapo's as far as my flyfinshing has concerned.
 
The only problem is I'm still living in Australia so I get bugger all time to practice these things!
 
Thanks for putting this up Clark and well done to those that had a hand in putting this cast down. From what I have seen you can apply any Spey style cast to a single hander, just remeber your haul is their bottom hand.
 
Tight lines,
 
Kurt
one more parking ticket and i'm going to snap!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2010 at 1:20pm
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Hi Kurt
 
Nice to hear from you and your adventures in FInnland.    Yes I enjoy casting almost to the point where it isnt that important to catch fish....almost.    Have rediscovered my love of casting recently after too much meat hunting from the kayak.   
 
We shall be on the Tonga from the 23-29th of August and are holding another  TRC casting clinic to raise funds for the Tongariro Trout Centre on the 28th Aug.
 
This is a cast that is worth the effort since it will compliment your overhead cast for all the upstream fly fishing you can ever do.    On the Tongariro it makes fishing easier and in paticular safer as the bombs are never behind you.    It is also quicker to set up and only requires one forward cast to achieve impressive distances regardless of what weigthed flies you use.   
 
Anyone interested to learn this cast please contact DOC Turangi, Sporting Life or the National TRout Centre.     All takings go to the SOciety.
 
Rainbow
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