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The rumble over Tiri.

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    Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 4:32pm
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Have started putting pen to paper about the proposed marine reserve around the end of Whangaparaoa Peninsula, the Tiri Passage and the island itself. Letters to editors first then we will make our submission when the documents become available. Have been offered a presentation by NZ Underwater and will try to get this going in the new year. Will keep you posted.

Dear Editor

The basic concept of marine reserves is sound, but in the case of the proposed reserve in the Tiri area many people are missing a few very important points.

Firstly, we have an established marine reserve and large park which includes a marine education centre at Long Bay, only minutes away from the Hibiscus Coast and only 7 nautical miles from Tiri. Would it not be more economically viable and logistacally easier to increase the size of the Long Bay reserve by perhaps extending it further seawards or by extending it further south to Tipau Point and the reef between Browns Bay and Torbay. It will cost tax payers a lot of money to put systems in place and police a new marine reserve. Why not enhance what we already have?

Secondly. The Telecom cable area that runs from Takapuna and north through the Hauraki Gulf is fundamentally already a marine reserve. This area between the East Coast Bays / Whangaparaoa Peninsula and Rangitoto measures 4Km wide at its widest point and is over 12Km long before it even gets past Tiri. It is a huge no anchoring and no fishing area that is already policed. When you take into account the proposed boundries for the reserve at Tiri it does not leave much room for recreational angling, which by the way is our birth right, just like being able to walk around on Tiri and wonder at the sight of some nearly extinct bird life.

There is also another no anchoring and no fishing area inside the Tiri Channel. It is clearly marked by Special Marks (yellow buoys) and on the local chart this area measures over 1.5km long and over 500m wide. Further to this, when the Navy and other forces use the area of land at the north eastern end of the Peninsula for weapons training, large orange flags are flown and anglers or boaties are not permitted in the area surrounding Huaroa Point and the Wellington Reef area. Leave us somewhere to go in a bit of breeze!

It is on that note, that I must bring to your attention also, the damage that can be done to a treasure like the Tiritiri wildlife reserve, when put under pressure by hoardes of sightseers and divers, tramping around on the beaches and rocks like they do at the Goat Island reserve all year. The difference being, the Goat Island reserve is not also a wildlife reserve like Tiri and has a well established caretaking, oblutions and refuse system in place, due to the fact it has a marine science facility inside it and is accessible from the land. Tiri is not and I wonder how the Department of Conservation would deal with this extra pressure on the island. Who is going to pick up the litter and clean toilets? Who is going to police the reserve when you canít access it by road? Would we be destroying the Tiri sanctuary?

It is also with amazement that I notice that proposals include closing the Whangaparaoa Passage (Tiri Channel) and making it part of the reserve. It is quite obvious to me and many others, that DOC and Underwater New Zealand have not properly researched this area for a marine reserve. The Tiri Channel has a lot of water moving through it and at times the tide can flow up to 0.5 of a knot (1km per hour). Although this doesnít sound like much it is very difficult to dive in such conditions if you are not very experienced and fit. There is also a lot of tidal movement at both ends of the island and with the steep drop offs in these areas, it would be extremely unwise to promote diving or snorkelling in the area, especially to those with little experience. Think back to the recent tragedy involving divers diving whist being supervised in a high current area in the South Island. Does DOC and Underwater New Zealand want blood on their hands just to promote a vested interest?

As a fishing charter boat operator in the Hauraki Gulf, I can assure those that feel the fishery around the island is being depleted, it is not. The Hauraki Gulf fishery on the whole is in good shape and if simple measures were put in place to limit the amount of commecial fishing close to land it will remain in good shape. Dr Babock suggests that commercail fishers do not come close to shore. As an ex-commercial fisher I can assure Dr Babcock that they do indeed come close to shore and he only need take a look out behind Tiri and in Whangaparaoa Bay to see this. I and many others, have often witnessed longliners and small netters in the Tiri Passage and out in Whangaparaoa Bay. It is not unusual to see a purse siener or 3, only a mile or so behind Tiri or on the line between Tiri and Kawau Islands. They are legally entitled to be there and are trying to make a living like the rest of us. But it is here where the problem lies. The fish cannot get onto the reefs at places like Tiri when they are being scooped up on the way in.. Dr Babcock has made a completely understudied comment from his laboratory in Leigh.

If Underwater New Zealand and DOC want to make a difference they had better pay a visit to the Ministry of Fisheries and combine their efforts to limit the commercial take in the Hauraki Gulf. You and I know this will not happen as corruption in MOF has been widely broadcast for all to see. I will be taking Pete Saulsí advice when he says" that anyone dealing with DOC needs to be extra careful". You donít need to put a marine reserve in a important recreational part of the Hauraki Gulf and spoil the location for many just to please a few.

Regards

Damian Clayton

Professional Skipper

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 5:21pm
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Good points, Damian. Your view is well expressed and should certainly be considered by the parties proposing the reserve.

An issue you may be battling against as you oppose the reserve is that it happens to fit quite well with the 'network of reserves' theme which is now predominating conservation thought.  To have Tiri a reserve - first Goat Island, then a few miles down the coast Tiri, then 7 miles down the coast Long Bay... that's ideal in the conservationist's viewpoint. 

I suggest DOC doesn't care about the health or risks to divers of diving in the reserve because the reserve is not for public recreation, but to protect marine biodiversity.

Might I suggest you calculate for us the actual area of the no-fishing areas you have mentioned (as you have beter info than I do) and express that as a percentage of the Hauraki Gulf (or a percentage of the inner island foreshores of the Gulf between the North Shore and Waiheke (ie, X% closed for reserves already essentially, Y% closed for fishing due to other restrictions = Z% of a homogenous area is protected already, and see what the Titi reserve would make the total percentage).  The idea is that 10% of representative habitats should be protected, and if that is accepted then it should not be 15% of the good accessible fishing spots and 5% of the bad inaccessible ones.  I suspect however that you will end up with less than 10% after including Tiri. In fact, I suspect if you ran a line around the coast from Coromandel to Bream Head that the percentage will be quite low.

As far as trampling plants and stuff on the island, well I expect most visitors would arrive by boat and presumably use the toilet facilities on those boats (if any).  your question is however well thought through - what of the boats of tourists arriving in a sheltered bay, crawling up on the rocks for a quiet crap behind the fern trees?  I would be quite interested myself to hear the response from NZU et al.

Whilst I have the greatest respect for your opinion, I personally think Tiri would be a good marine reserve location.  If it's not there, then it'll be somewhere else to get a 10% representative area.  Having a seamless land based and marine reserve is however quite ideal, and it's hard for those of us less experienced than you to see the problems arising from it. 

Regards and happy fishing,

Reidfish

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 8:01pm
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Well said Damian. I have seen the commercial guys working this area many many times. Is it because they tend to work this area over during the week when the average fisherman is not around that they can get away with saying its not touched by commercial fisherman ?

I'm sure they can find equally as important coast line that is not that accessible to recreational fisherman to have there reserves in.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote gbh2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2002 at 6:05pm
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 We live on the H.b.c and have fished all around the coast on both sides.We have only a small fishing craft and are not able to go further out than Tiri or Kawaru.We agree that there should be marine reserves around the north island.There are reserves at Long bay and Goat island and others we are not aware of.Tiri island is a good alternative fishing spot to the coast for the smaller vessel.We think that if Tiri was to be made into a reserve it would possibly encourage small craft to venture further out and endanger themselves.Not all people who own boats are as confident as others.How long will it take before one of these smaller craft get caught out in bad conditions and need assistance.We feel that the coastgaurd is already overburdened by boats being pushed further afield to catch a "FEED" for themselves.

As one of your charters recently wrote."WE CAUGHT OUR LIMIT TWICE IN TWO TRIPS TO SHEARERS ROCK" although we do not agree with boats taking 81 fish each trip,We do think that smaller craft are able to fish this spot and others around Tiri island and take home a "FEED".

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tomsta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2002 at 9:50am
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Hi Damian, You have made some very valid points for obvious reasons... very Good. I am a conservationist fisherman and realise the neccessity for marine reserves... not to mention sinking the odd commercial vessel or two... Like you I oppose Tiri channel and Whangaparaoa head land being turned into a reserve. This has more to do with the proposed sewage outlet in the Tiri Channel then most people care to imagine... still can't belive they want to put a sewage outlet in the middle of a reserve..... I for one and there are many like me who use a small boat for fishing purposes... making it to Tiri in the first place is a mission enough... let alone having to go any further... or anchor in an exposed area....

It beats me why they couldn't piss a smaller population of fisho's off and put a reserve from Whendoholm Reginal park out to Kawau island and area... or Rangitoto/waiheke area ... Great Barrier to little Barrier... or (Better still make the ocean a reserve and ban all commercial fishing)..... they are far enough away from the everyday angler and his small boat/surf caster. Guys in bigger boats still have a vast array of options of areas to fish.

Unfourtuanately as we all know Recreatioinal anglers aren't considered in these decisions.... the majority of people (who aren't fisho's) will think marine reserve.... Cool!!!... it must be a good idea!!! It will be supported... It will go a head, it will upset a lot of us for quite some time.... That's Life!!! As the population gets bigger (politicians ego's get bigger)... there are more laws/bylaws brought in to turn us into sheep and a controlled society.... Maybe Hitler was born before his time..... I'm sure he would fit in well with todays politics.

For All it's Worth You have myt support... All the Best mate!!!!

Tom

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2003 at 12:09pm
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You can now check out all details of theTiri proposal on:

http://www.nzunderwater.org.nz/

Click on 'environmental', then on 'Tiritiri Matangi Reserve Proposal'

I have a booklet from NZU on this, as they are leading the application process.

The proposal includes:

- Full No-take reserve

- Unrestricted public access

- Seamless terrestrial and marine reserves

- Forms part of a network of reserves in the Gulf (links with Long Bay and Tawharanui and Goat Island)

There are three proposed boundary locations, all of which include parts of the Whangaparoa peninsular:

1. Army Bay, Okoromai Bay, Wellington Rock, Whangaparoa passage, all Tiritiri Matangi Island, Shearer Rock, and the marker buoy

2. Army Bay, Okoromai Bay, Wellington Reef but not Wellington Rock , Whangaparoa passage, all Tiritiri Matangi Island, but not Shearer Rock or the marker buoy

3. Army Bay, Okoromai Bay, Wellington Rock, not Whangaparoa passage, all Tiritiri Matangi Island, not Shearer Rock or the marker buoy

Your input is sought as to:

-use of the area

-activities in the area

-support/oppose reserve

-boundary options

Fishing clubs and dive clubs please contribute to the debate by sending in the forms and discuss at dive meetings.

Happy New Year to you all.

}<((((į>

Reid Quinlan

Bluefins Freediving & Spearfishing  Club

www.geocities.com/bluefinsnz

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote obald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2003 at 10:55am
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I requested by email and have just received by snailmail my 'booklet' ostensibly from NZ Underwater.

Heaven forbid, I am not a conspiracy theorist - but.

I already have forbodings of the worst here. This is a very flash upmarket glossy 12 page A4 booklet with underwater photos, chartlets - the whole 9 yards. This was not by any stretch of the imagination cheap to produce. Bottom of column 1 page 2 is a wee box thanking the Project AWARE Foundation and the Department of Conservation for their assistance. I feel like snail looking up at the oncoming steamroller.

With DoC and its well known agenda for the coastline so heavily involved right from the inception of all this I am at a loss as to what to do next. The upcoming submissions seem to me to be so much p***ing in the wind, a meaningless exercise they have to go through so they can claim to have 'followed process' before doing exaclty as they please whilst ignoring anyone who disagrees with them. The political will that is behind DoC is the Government of the land - 'O me miserum'

Any constructive ideas on how to get me out of this fit of depression (please spare me the 'get the scumbags') gratefully received.

obald

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote TheSnapperWhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2003 at 11:21am
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Hmmm, let me see, how about use DOC/Forest & bird tactics we learned from Volkner rocks...

1. Copy the submission form a zillion times.

2. Take it to all primary and intermediate schools (and mental institutions and preschools would be good too), rest homes, sports grounds, rugby games, pubs, beaches, boat ramps, all you can, and get people to mark on it either 'support'  or 'oppose', according to your view. 

3. Importantly, YOU take the forms.  Any comments not supporting your view can then be SHREDDED as you please! (nice one, DOC!)

A massive negative response will probably be about the only possible way to stop this one happening at Tiri.

However, THEN you will need to suggest another place to have reserves which are more suitable.  Think about that one for a while.  Then get your fishing club or whatever group you want, to nominate an alternative area.  Then YOU do the years of work to make it happen. 

You see, you can't stop the process extending nationwide, you can only affect the selection of sites.  Good luck to anyone trying to stop the govt following its biodiversity strategy and 10% MPA target.  That would require a change of govt and a strong alternate political party. 

I think you are wasting your time criticising this proposal unless you are prepared to suggest, and work for, an alternative that is suitable. But that's just my opinion.  BTW, I believe the nice photos were given free by Roger Grace (don't know about Matt Low, and I see Karli has not yet picked up a Nikonos), as he is on the committee which has been working for several years for this to happen.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2003 at 11:33am
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First off a happy new years to you and yours, Obald!!

I managed to have a quick gander at the Tiri document over the xmas hols...geee whiz...looks like DoC have taken "pole position" on this issue...the pamplet certainly seems like a final nail is about to be hammered into recreational users preverbial coffin!......my estimate on their spending to produce that document would be close to $2.50 each, if not more!

See ya out west on Saturday....Odin reckons we shouldn't bother fishing it as you guys are going to have it all tied up....BRING IT ON!!...
I am Kermit, Leader of Muppets Nov 05
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2003 at 12:41pm
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As the general public have no idea about this and most wouldnt care to much, short of getting national attention, the recreational fisherman may as well bend over grab the ankles and get ready to be ...........

Perhaps a mass demonstration on the water with a small interruption to the A-cup would get the publics attention. This of course wont happen and DOC will get there way.

Get ready to tow your boats a long way to be able to fish in future

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote obald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2003 at 1:04pm
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Dear Mr Reidfish,

Thanks for your prompt and pointedly non hysterical reply. I have to admit that I reluctantly have to agree with most of what you say.

1. Copy the submission form a zillion times.

2. Take it to all primary and intermediate schools (and mental institutions and preschools would be good too), rest homes, sports grounds, rugby games, pubs, beaches, boat ramps, all you can, and get people to mark on it either 'support'  or 'oppose', according to your view. 

3. Importantly, YOU take the forms.  Any comments not supporting your view can then be SHREDDED as you please! (nice one, DOC!)

Wish I could laugh at that as it was so obviously far from the truth - I can't because it isn't.

A massive negative response will probably be about the only possible way to stop this one happening at Tiri.

Won't happen in sufficient volume and they know that .

You see, you can't stop the process extending nationwide, you can only affect the selection of sites.  Good luck to anyone trying to stop the govt following its biodiversity strategy and 10% MPA target.  That would require a change of govt and a strong alternate political party

The above paragraph is probably the most telling of all and is unfortunately bang on the money. I've got as much chance as stopping the Tiri Marine Reserve as I have of seeing a nuclear power station in Takapuna or income tax being reduced to reasonable levels or seeing the numbers of MPs being reduced as per referendum or seeing third party insurance for cars being made compulsory or .......

As to the selection of sites, its a bit like landfills (paradoxically). I suppose we had better have some but not in my back yard. I can see Tiri as I type this and fish there regularly - might pop out this evening. Would I feel so miserable if the proposal was for a reserve twelve miles off Dunedin? I'd be lying to say I would.

Oh well life ain't all bad. I'll expend some energy in trying to catch more tuna than our Fearless Leader on Saturday.

Cheers

obald (feeling resigned to his fate and not really that grumpy)

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2003 at 1:24pm
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Obald,

The differance between this and a landfill. Is that landfill sites are selected for there suitability and are subject to stringent testing. Then a long public submission is entered into which is fairly weighted. The public have a fair input into this and there opinions are considered (ie Canterbury round 1 won by the public over the councils joint venture with private enterprise). Then cultural concerns come into play. Iwi have a large input into this.

No I think DOC have a much easier road. Maybe the hope you are looking for is Iwi. if Tiri was proven to be a traditional hunting ground and you could get Iwi on side then your right to fish there may be saved.

Bushpig

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote obald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2003 at 1:58pm
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Hi BP,

The Iwi's might - mine wouldn't.

obald

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2003 at 2:06pm
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Lucky for me mine would
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