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Stray lining, your methods for success?

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    Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 6:06pm
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So one of the most confusing things I think when beggining is how to read the current vs the wind. ie just because your nose is pointing xyz position, the current could be flowing forward of your stern, o you are throwing your dead baits out of the berley zone entirely.

1. How do you read the current vs your boat direction?
2. How do you read the current vs your boat direction at the 20m bottom mark where the fish are? ie your berley might go out the back but end up wafting diagonally to the right. 

In the end it shouldnt matter as your bait should follow the current as well. But the point im trying to make is, you ideally want to be backed/stern up to a pinnacle holding fish and then your baits following the berley into the agitated fish. How do YOU acheive this?

One thing I do when the wind is REALLY being a PITA, I drop a berley cage, with dive weight 2m below it, then line to float. Berley drifts into the pinnacle. I will then get the boat wherever I want as long as I can cast into that current and berley drift. Sometimes that means Im side on if the wind is blowing me off angle. 

Side note: I personally always use 9/0 demon circle hooks now after gut hooking fish, I havnt gut hooked a fish yet including a 15cm snapper that swallowed a side of KY bigger than himself lol. 
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https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-advice/how-to/snapper-fishing-straylining-techniques/

As mentioned here, the anchor can be tied to the stern cleat, but can also make a lot of noise. This is why I choose to anchor far away from the fish but remain in castable distance to let the bait waft.

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One thing that annoys me - is I dont know what the current is doing (strength and direction), while the boat is moving, ie not anchored. Where I fish a lot, around an island (tiritiri Matangi), the current varies hugely both in strength and direction. I have found the current sometimes going in the opposite direction - for example, the OG tide sometimes moves one way and other times the opposite.
 
Generally, among a lot of islands, channels, peninsulas; predicting what the current will do, is tricky. Still it all adds to the challenge, which is good. If I went out and caught plenty every time, I would get bored.
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Originally posted by letsgetem letsgetem wrote:

One thing that annoys me - is I dont know what the current is doing (strength and direction), while the boat is moving

And the other thing is you dont know what the current is doing further down the temp line. Yeah its a PiTA to anchor just to figure out its not going to work. Generally I find wind wins over current, so thats why I use the buoy with my berley cage right where I want it. 

There are electronics for current, but a mentioned thats top water only.

Its much easier with a windlass of course. But I usually drop anchor see what wind is doing. Then drop some pilchard bits over board and watch them float down with the action cam. If they are not going into the pinnacle as such its not big deal imo, as long as they pass close enough. If so I setltle for that position, then if boat is sweet, I fish, if not I put the rope where i need to, to have access to the wafting berley. Thats just how I use to do it, not over think it. The fish will travel and the big ones are never in the berley trail imo. 

Its much easier when doing a shellfish berley when spearfishing as you just drop some broken kina off the side of a shelf and keep bopping up and down from 10 metres back to check who is showing up for dinner. But thats the huge benefit of spearing, its selective and and you can get those perfect size fish, not too big not too small, just enough for the family. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 9:38am
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The current is as unpredictable as this thread
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Damn FF would have thought you would have had this all sorted from all the experience you have reported and reading of forums googling etc
 So yeah for future visitors who bother to use the search function.

 For depths from 2m to 35/40m

We stray line a little different.. bit of old school 1950/60s mixed in. Stuff off the old an who if was still alive would be 101 this month.
 Fishing for a feed type of thing
1st the gear.
bait runner set as light as possible.
30lb coloured braid.
 Small bimmini twist loop at the bottom.
Catspawed onto a a swivel and clip big enough to take reef sinkers up to 6oz
OR  clip one onto your SB clip Wink
 Re tied Traces, 30lb floro (20lb tends to get hammered a little drifting over reefs) long enough to go from rod to bait board when rod in holder.
Snelled recurve o/5 in winter going upto 6 or 7 east coast.. upto 10 west coast. and stand o4 or o5 J as the keeper snelled 1/2" above.
Feathers laid under the snell.
 3 times thru surgeons loop as small as possible (dont get too carried away thu) at the top and a 1/2 hitch to finish.

The burly pot
 A car spring (weight) in a net garabinared onto a 40m 3.5mm braid line, wound onto a large handline holder, with loops tied every meter.
3.5mm 'rope' has little resistance to current so hangs far more vertical.
 This is dropped between 1, and 3m off the bottom depending on the gradient of the sea bottom and reefs clearance(just) etc. Hooked thru one of the loops to a garbina on the REAR boat rail.
 hook anywhere else or on an anchor moored, you will not in most cases be fishing in the burly trail

If the boat doesnt sit well in the current/ wind, turn the engine to act as a rudder...if this is not enough then chances are the position / conditions are not best suited.. find another line else where,

Now clip the trace and as light a reef sinker as possible to touch the bottom  with the line at a 45 to 30 deg angle out the back.. I even cut 1/2 the bottom off a 2oz to get a 1 1/2 sinker.. that how important sinker weight is.

A strip bait mounted on both sinkers barbs well clear and VERY tidy. If you find the trace spins up then tidy the bait more.. a spinning trace/ bait doesnt catch fish.

The only time I drop anchor is if going for a swim, otherwise the boat drifts faster than I can swim.

 The drift.. to find how things go once engine has been killed.
 Position where you think from experience where the wind/ current will take you on the 1st drift.. 100m or so you have it sussed... preposition if need be.... that simple

The burly and lines hang at the depth you target...if going for surface.. very light sinker or even balloon, and burly at the surface.

 All very  basic common sense think it thru stuff...

 Now we are primarily west coast/ Manukau, the common local thought is drifting stray line is not the best...
 So far the harbour seems to be working this way ok.. thu jury still out.
 Off the coast.. lots of care thought into how lines hang .. espec if a couple straight down.. easy to end up spending your time out there untangling a nightmare (any tangle, big or small is a nightmare.)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 10:50am
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Last time out - anchored upstream of foul - immediately obvious extremely strong current, in the direction expected. Was mid- outgoing tide and a big tide. Wind direction with the tide (although wouldn't have mattered with the current ruling over the wind).
Was like fishing for trout in a brawly river. The berley pot went out for miles about 3 times as much rope as the depth. With 4 oz sinker, Lines went almost horizontal, increased sinker weight to 6 ozs, and made it to bottom.
I expected very little biting due to the huge current. Had a few bites (phew they must have been training for the Olympics). Then something strong on - tried but couldn't reel it in - thought was snagged in weed - after a struggle, pulled line in by hand. Eventually it came up to the surface and surfed in to the boat - a 43cm snapper, hooked in the side.
What fun. Who wants to simply wind up snapper anyway. Har, har.
 
I use a baitrunner reel - but I think its lightest drag is too heavy. Often fish take it and drop it. Im trying leaving the bail arm open, better result I think - but need to pay more attention to the reel than Im used to.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 10:51am
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Maybe first define what straylining is. It may be different for each fisherman.
To me straylining is fishing with bait,no weights or sinker,cast away from boat in little or no current shallow areas.
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Steps Im showing some Humility. I know what works for me. And I posted the fishingnz guide. But there are always things that occur that not everyone is aware of and how to takle, I thought it would be a good thread to help sort out certain situations people find and as a reminder on how to.

I personally have never claimed to be an expert in anything, hence why I am open to learning new things. Like I said, I know what works for me, but if something pops up that I may find useful, Im not going to be the know it all who is afraid to ask a "dumb" question.

Letsgetem I think you are doing all you can in such situations.

ie wind blowing hard against current.

Yes Cirrus generally thats what the article refers to, although it can be deep water pinnacle stray lining as well. :-)
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S.O.G, 4 points min...……...is that a mouse? bird brain is hungry...…..maybe i'll come back to this later to further explain
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 9:08pm
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Cirrus makes an interesting point about defining stray lining.
For me it means minimum amount of weight for current/depth, bait cast away from boat, preferably into the burly trail. Overhead real in freespool and allowing the bait to slowly drift back so its presented as naturally as possible.
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Originally posted by The cook The cook wrote:

Cirrus makes an interesting point about defining stray lining.
For me it means minimum amount of weight for current/depth, bait cast away from boat, preferably into the burly trail. Overhead real in freespool and allowing the bait to slowly drift back so its presented as naturally as possible.

Generally its exactly that, casting a side of kawhai, minimally weighted to get down the berley trail. Weight even less important in shallow water as fish like snapper are documented to come up the water column.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Snappa Geoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 11:49pm
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It makes me laugh on here the way people think its so important to use burley when straylining. Sure its great if you want to attract alot of smaller fish and happy to catch a feed. If your after bigger fish to me it cuts down your odds straight away on catching one as the smaller ones become a nuciance. Your better off concentrating on catching fresh bait straight away once arriving to spot. Use big fresh whole fillets, heads, whole small fish. The smaller ones dont go for them leaving the bigger fish to sniff them out and strike. Iv'e never used burley and never will. I don't have to put numbers up on proof of my methods, but i will say i find it easy winning competitions if i can get out in my small boat opposed to all the other bigger boats burleying up out deeper. On Boat type if your serious about straylining, centre console or open. Doesn't have to be big as the biggest fish are usually in the shallowest water. Been on Cabin boats when current is forward of cabin or hard side. Waste of time as you can hardly strayline. Hook selection is ones own choice, but the way i look at it, is your hook going to handle a 30 odd pound fish, if its not i wouldn't be using it. My earlier days i learnt the hard way with busted and bent hooks before refining my methods, and haven't lost a big one since.Beer
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Fair call Geoff. But where you fish only marlin size snapper live ;-p

I think most people will use the berley to attract the bigger snapper out of reefs, which is totally different to your situation I believe?

It definitely attracts the peckers, but they are usually high up the berley chain with the bigger fish hanging wary out the back, eventually cant resist a slab of KY or  or a whole Jack Mac etc, which helps avoid the peckers taking a solid bait meant for the moochers living in the reef/pinnacle. 

Definitely agree about fresh live bait. And I dont believe in buying Berley.

Mark Kitteridge I think it was did a good article about straylining around the back of Rangitoto. Which is not a known moocher spot but they would have gone limit on good size fish from memory.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Snappa Geoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 5:50am
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

Fair call Geoff. But where you fish only marlin size snapper live ;-p

I think most people will use the berley to attract the bigger snapper out of reefs, which is totally different to your situation I believe?

It definitely attracts the peckers, but they are usually high up the berley chain with the bigger fish hanging wary out the back, eventually cant resist a slab of KY or  or a whole Jack Mac etc, which helps avoid the peckers taking a solid bait meant for the moochers living in the reef/pinnacle. 

Definitely agree about fresh live bait. And I dont believe in buying Berley.

Mark Kitteridge I think it was did a good article about straylining around the back of Rangitoto. Which is not a known moocher spot but they would have gone limit on good size fish from memory.
Yep if i lived in a rocky or reefy area FF I would no doubt addapt different methods which may result in using  berley. I should of included my methods are for fishing Westcoast over sand in my above post. Also i believe the whole westcoast is as good as Mokau if one was serious about targeting big Snaps. Sure i catch a few good Snaps here, but there are still plenty of boat fisherman here still seeking there first 20 lb da. The reason being they have big boats and think the further out you go the bigger the fish! When in fact its the opposite. Once youv'e gone past a depth of around 30 metres where Straylining becomes in affective you have a lot less chance of getting a big fish, its more luck. The only time deep fishing is good is when the big fish start arriving for spawning, they are out there for a short while before heading in close. Iv'e let out alot of my secrets in these last couple of posts, but always enjoy offering info and tips that may help other Forum uses. Thats wot i believe these forums are for, sharing ideas etc.Beer
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I use a baitrunner reel - but I think its lightest drag is too heavy. Often fish take it and drop it. Im trying leaving the bail arm open, better result I think - but need to pay more attention to the reel than Im used to. 

 I have the bait runner set so the very lightest pull over and above the drag of  light as possible the sinker while drifting will give.. very now and then a bump will pull a little more line.

SG thoughts on burly small fish.. bigger baits and with light sinkers one is out the back of the small fish... and any small fish  do nibble away.. this attracts the bigger fish.. they come in , pick up, start to swim away.. like a sea gull garbing a chip fly away to eat without being interfered with... Then the crew eat the bait.
 With burly its a time thing.. 5/ 10 mins the small fish arrive, 20/ 30mins the big fish come in.

And thoughts on deep water..totally agree.. and not just deep water, within sight of the ramp... hence my note 2m to 40m  , our best fish have been 2 to 15m....except west coast has been 25/35m.

LGT
The berley pot went out for miles about 3 times as much rope as the depth. With 4 oz sinker, Lines went almost horizontal, increased sinker weight to 6 ozs, and made it to bottom.

On the outside of shag rock bottom end Waiheke , big tides , yep gets upto 6oz at peak of the run.  But our pot , even in 25/30m water, 1/2m off the bottom is still just off vertical...
Get rid of your rope, go to 3 or 3.5mm braid from the local haberdashery.. it has a breaking strain od 2 or 300 kg from memory.. 100m about $45. 
That way little water resistance , and the lines out the back in 45 to 30deg angle in a well dispersed trail.

Drifting over reefs, cant leave the rod in the holder... with sinker at end of the main line, and drifting the bait/ hook stays up.. but you must feel that sinker drop bounce on the top of the rocks... inattention will loose hooks /traces.

Also on flat or reef , get a interested nibble, let line out to slow the bait down or even stop...

Dropping as SB out doing the same is also our norm at the same time... while time free, cast forward as normal, interest on a stray line just let it drift..
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

I use a baitrunner reel - but I think its lightest drag is too heavy. Often fish take it and drop it. Im trying leaving the bail arm open, better result I think - but need to pay more attention to the reel than Im used to. 

 I have the bait runner set so the very lightest pull over and above the drag of  light as possible the sinker while drifting will give.. very now and then a bump will pull a little more line.


Yep, what Steps said. Same if using an overhead lever drag that has a preset you can push to once wanting to set.

A lot of people will use a normal spin reel and just set it the same as a baitrunner, then when going to strike have quick fingers on the drag, then hold the spool when setting hook, then tighten drag more as needed. The problem being you never know the precise drag for the line required so its not an exact science, but Ive not been busted off because of it.

Geoff, I have no doubt, your skilll and knowledge of Mokau and the surrounding area has a large part to play in you consistently landing mega snapper. I also agree re boats. in the shallows, a tinny with all its clinking and clanking is not as stealth as a RIB/Inflatable or Glass/Plastic boat. BUT they are getting better, heavier plate Ally used and companies like extreme using cork on the feet as an option and fully lined cabins etc. However plenty of guys do just fine in open tinnies stray lining.
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Myn small light gear.. 4000 thunnus/ OC  reels I set to 1kg direct off the end of the rod.. ie in line with the way the rod lies on the bench... set with a DIGITAL scales before leaving home.
 My bigger 6000 reels set to 1.5kg.
 Now this doesnt sound much...
 These settings  start to 'slip' around a 38/40cm snap.
 1/8 to 1/4 turn and still they can pull line then means you have around a 45cm snap.
ppl tend to roughly set, seat of the pants and still have no idea what they have
A 1/4 turn puts another approx 1/2kg
Now keep in mind, when one takes into account the angle off the tip of the rod, this can increase 3 to 4 times depending how high the rod is.
 Higher the rod the more  actual drag.

Just rem to back off once the fish in in the boat thu.

 In the shallows, drift thru a sandy bay close top top of the tide, 2m  in a 5.5m glass cabin boat...  just like a kayak.
 Tinnies make one hell of a noise under water every slight movement in the boat.Wink
 Thickness of plate doesnt make any diff..

I will head into a bay, fast, kill the engine, lift the motor, glide in ..drop the burly and drag it on the bottom. at the stern once in position, and that turns the boat.
 I also think that the burly pot fluffing up a bit of sand, sort of bring the fish into the trail better.

Good place for that is the back of Pakatoa, just nth of the scallop .. or what was the scallop beds, or down the inside of hooks.
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So here is my way of determining position of boat, with current flow on the surface(if there is an undercurrent there is f.a that can be done.)Firstly gotta figure out the current direction, and for me I use my gps with the engine in gear and note my s.o.g(speed on ground) and travel the four compass points as a min but the more you do against, the more you can lock it in. Will find that there is one direction that speed is slower, another faster and two that have no real diff. Weather conditions are going to play a part and if it is too snotty then it not gunna work(and I have stayed at home anyway!!). The slowest is the one i'm after as this is the boat pushing into the current. Now I can take into account the wind direction as to how I am going to hang, and if the current is anymore than 30deg off my stern its not really worth it as i'm fishing too close to my warp and personally don't like that. Now I can cruise into position and drop my anchor. hang back into the wind and fish the current. Hopefully I don't get too much yaw affecting my baits but this is one reason why I prefer to fish an o/h so I can walk the line in or out without it affecting my presentation.
When doing this, I will do it as close to where I want to fish, without going over my intended area to fish so as to try not to disturb it too much. And if I get it wrong then I will pull my anchor to a metre of the chain and idle into the correct position and reset.
However I am birdbrained and probably doing it all wrong!
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Using the gps to figure out current is a good idea.
 
If you can anchor easily, then setting the anchor will find out how the wind and current interact to place the boat (in relation to the anchor warp).
 
Alternatively instead of anchoring, in theory it would be possible with experience of your boat, to make estimate of how the boat will lie, if you know the current direction and speed, and the wind speed.
 
That's enough technical stuff, lets talk about FISHING. Last week I went out. Over about 2 hours with berley near foul, caught 2 snapper keepers. Then bites went off. Then I was lazing inside the cabin (my Figlass Firestar cabin is just big enough to lie down), and saw the end of one rod bend way over. I tried to play something huge, either a king or shark I reckoned. It went around the anchor rope, then went around the berley rope then went around the prop - so there was no way I could reel it any closer. After a struggle clambering around the boat, I found where the line went to the fish, and proceeded to pull it in by hand. Phew. A 1.8m shark surfaced. Cut the trace off. What a lot of fun. That's why I go fishing.
 
ANd a few minutes later it did it again, wasn't put off by a hook in its jaw, grabbed another bait, took off; luckily this time the line broke before it got into any tangles.  Time to go home.
 
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