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single or double hook rigs?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: single or double hook rigs?
    Posted: 16 Oct 2003 at 2:52pm
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anyone willing to start the above debate.....ahem.....discussion?

any takers?.....

I am Kermit, Leader of Muppets Nov 05
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Wefaknis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2003 at 3:00pm
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When I'm drinking, and double is always better than a single!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2003 at 3:34pm
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Single hook rigs here. From all I have read and all I have talked to and listened to, I'm convinced there is no need for two hooks
I would rather laugh with the Sinners, than cry with the Saints
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote KingfishSi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2003 at 4:01pm
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Depends on where I'm fishing but usually just the one hook for less snags on weed and rocks.
Keep knockin', nobody's home.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2003 at 4:04pm
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Sorry mate...I am meaning game fish lures in particular....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote KingfishSi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2003 at 4:05pm
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Hmmm, then I'd say "I wouldn't have a clue"
Keep knockin', nobody's home.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Martini Max Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2003 at 9:26pm
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Single.

"I do nothing..I do it well.. I then move on to doing more of nothing"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote A C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2003 at 9:42pm
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Double.........can't beat a stinger and a grapnell

waiting..................

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2003 at 10:26pm
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Depends. If I am out on a charter boat with a professional crew etc, I will run double hooks in lures, particularly big lures, I have mine with both hooks pointing up, in line.

However, on my own boat, which being a trailer boat usualyy only has 2 or 3 guys on it, who are not necessarily expert leadermen and/or gaffmen, I go for single hook rigs. Why? The hook up rate is on no way lessened I think, or if so, marginally so, but SAFETY is hugely important.

Bringing an aggressive, strong fish alongside the boat, or indeed, into the boat, with a single hook, firmly embedded in its jaw, is easy enough and safe enough. However, that same fish with one hook in its jaw and a second hook flailing around as a small super-speed mini gaff (and with a 12/0 game hook, not so mini either!) as the fish thrashes its head around, is just a disaster waiting to happen.

An experienced crew is pretty safe in these situations, but for myself (we elephants don't move too fast, and have much more meat for a hook to grab onto! ouch!) and anywhere where I am likely to be involved in handling the fish, single hook rigs all the way!

It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote dustin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2003 at 3:57am
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I have always used two hook rigs in most 10" and bigger lures by training, and old habits die hard, but after seeing guys I know experience good results with single hooks, I definitely think they deserve a fair trial.  The single rig I'd start out fishing in larger lures would be the Bart stiff single hook rig with light drag, but I think a single rig with hook behind the head is to my mind worth a try, I've had good results with white marlin on small lures rigged this way.  Generally, I think singles have a lot going for them, simplicity, safety, I can see why a fish that knocks down a lure with a single hook may be spooked less which may give a better shot at hooking him the second time round, plus good hookups. 

I've come to believe that how good the hookup is, (assuming the lure and hook(s) are not manifestly too big for the fish, ie a 60 pound white marlin trying to eat a 14" lure and two 12/0 hooks) is to a large extent dependent on the type of bite, a good positive bite where the fish catches the lure cleanly, takes it, turns and runs hard against the drag will get a hookup even with pretty blunt hooks.  Whereas one that just raps the lure once and doesn't come back is gonna be hard to hook, no matter what rig.  If I can get as many bites as possible by finding the fish, and can tune the lures so they act perfectly, which to my mind is the main factor in getting positive bites on lures, I'm happy to sit back, relax (but be prepared to ring the changes) and let the fish do the rest.

cheers - dustin

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote matt watson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2003 at 10:41am
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What are you saying Capt A - It's O.K for a crewman to be put in danger of being impaled with a 12/0 but not you or your mates?
I would say that we (pro crews) would get the fish along side the boat a hell of a lot quicker than guys fishing from tailer boats therefore the fish is greener and more dangerous - for that reason (and several others) you'll find that most charter boats in NZ run singles as here we always try to remove the hook - this isn't always the case over seas.

Geez I hope this wan't a bait set for me -- if so I scoffed it!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote johnangus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2003 at 1:25pm
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Matt, the bastards often don't even remove the singles, not even from the tiny sails and whities. You remember what the crew in Cairns said about you, "Oh my God, he's holding that big stripey by the bill, must be bloody mad! Just for price of a hook!" (we won't mention gel-coat though will we?). Yet they not only leave the hook but 20 feet of stainless wire just for good measure. Before I came to NZ we had always used doubles everywhere else I fished, after seeing the results here I can't see the point in going back. If you have to have a double hook in a big blue to staple it's gob and make it blow out quick then I'd rather leave them alone. SINGLES, got to be. Question is stainless or otherwise, your mate Roddy says stainless.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2003 at 5:09pm
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Yes Matt, you are correct, deckhands/ tracers etc are a dime a dozen and easily replaced... besides they are paid heaps of money so they may as well get the bloody expensive hooks back. And lets face it, they are usually fairly young, so eventually they should heal up fairly nicely anyhow.

Durr-rr...

No, I MEANT ( and I thought this would be obvious), that experienced crew would have handled enough fish to know how to behave around double hook rigs. Experienced crews and well fitted out boats have hook-removers to keep hands etc well away from flailing barbs. Experienced crews know basically how to look out for themselves!

Trailer boat fishoes may also be equally experienced, but they are more often than not guys out for a fang, see what happens, often including Bazza from up the road who's never been out before and simply do not understand just how dangerous the situation is and can be.

If out on a charter boat and the question arises, single or double, first you are guided by the crew. If they want only singles, sweet, no worries. If they are happy with doubles, and i can be bothered putting the second hook into the rig, sweet, no worries. Most of my lures are rigged with singles anyhow, no sweat.

A lot of the time on charter boats you do not get that much of an option, they run their own gear rigged as the like it, again, no worries. If a crew expresses any hesitation at having doubles, hey, singles it is.

I don't think that if someone comes aboard and asks to use his double hook rigged lure though that you should see this as some personal affront. It is usually pretty easy to dissuade them anyhow, you try, first, the old"Geee, would you like some properly sharpened hooks on that mate?" that usually lets you put on a single instead of the double anyhow. (See, I have done this a few times myself).

One case to be made strongly in favour of singles is if there are likely to be many makos around.Seeing a mako with it's gob clamped closed with a hook in top and bottom jaw, then succeeding in cutting itself off, is a less than pleasant sight.

even worse, trying to get the hooks OUT of a mako! Yikes! even just a single...

cheers,

Stu.

It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote dustin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2003 at 1:17am
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I think a hook remover is a great thing to have on any boat, trailer, recreational or charter.  I use a spanner lashed onto the end of a broomstick, if you want to get fancy you can add a 12/0 hook with the barb and point cut off to pull hooks out, but I find most of the time hooks need to be punched out rather than pulled out.  Used together with a snooter, there's very little need to come in contact with the fish and removing even two hook rigs is usually not much of a hassle.  In my opinion crews that don't use these devices are making life potentially a lot more dangerous than it could be for themselves, and the risk of appalling injuries is real.  As for cutting fish off, personally, I'm all for removing hooks whenever possible, but consider the circumstance.  It's one thing to remove hooks from a lure caught blue marlin in calm waters off Kona or Madeira after it's been fought for 30 to 45 minutes.  At Cairns, on the other hand, you could have a big very green black marlin bounding all over the place on the end of 30 feet of singlestrand wire in rough conditions, should the deckhand realistically be expected to get the hook back from a fish like that?  I for one don't think so. 

cheers - dustin

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Marko A. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2003 at 3:08am
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Me are not a lure master, but i remember their words.

Bart Milles, always advice the cable wire-single stiff rig-7691 hook ... in his lures.

Peter Pakula, always advice the 7691 double hook shackle rig ... in his lures

Roddy Hays, likes the 7732 180° double hook rig (the trail hook stiff)

Dustin Foo, (see his post above)

 

PD Follow luresīs makers advice

Saludos & Buena Pesca

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote dustin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2003 at 9:15am
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Ola Marko, I'm no more a lure "expert" than I'm El Mariachi, but I do pay attention to what everyone says about lures and rigging.  I think they have all got their points and they all experience very good success with the way they fish, which in itself tells you something.  One thing's for sure, it's good not to be dogmatic, if you can rig all these different styles and understand what they do, the more options you have if something isn't working.  The other half of the story is to give it time to prove its worth, chopping and changing rigs is just as bad as switching and changing lures.  To my mind, I think in many cases the aspect that needs to be improved the most tends to be how to play the strike when it happens, not rigging.  With today's goldmine of information and advice, anyone can put together a good, sound rig that will catch fish.  Whereas it's a lot harder to tell somewhat what to do when all that preparation finally pays off and there's that black dorsal fin riding behind the lure and a big black bill waving back and forth. 

cheers - dustin

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote lalandi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2003 at 10:02am
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This is an interesting thread and I am enjoying learning...

Please, what are you preferences for open gape or closed? my understanding is that open is easier to set but less likely to stay in and closed is harder to set but once in has a better chance of staying there. On a double hook rig do you use one of each?? ( mouse trap??),and what where?

Do you have different drag settings for each?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2003 at 10:09am
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How ya doin' Lalandi?....I will answer your PM shortly!

You will need to tell Kate that you want a copy of our Blue Water Fishing (NZ) video for xmas.....Matt explains indepth why closed gap hooks work a whole bunch better - well in his experience at least....I must say I have learnt plenty putting this thing together!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote lalandi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2003 at 10:15am
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I will support the cause regardless...

when is release date?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kerren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2003 at 10:16am
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5:00pm this afternoon my good man.....
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