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Sharpening Filleting Knives

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish 4T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 7:47am
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Any of you use or experience with Chef or Wuhstof Electric Knife Sharperner?
Are they any good for mixed set knives or filleting knives,
or better learn how to use Lansky properly.
reason I don't like Lansky its I don't have the patient & time to do them.






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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 8:53am
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The electric knife sharpeners are a quick soln to keep cheap std  high carbon crystral (microscopic saws described ) dispoable blades keep an edge.
 Quick simple and wear the blade down quick..if used when blunt ...but in most cases those who have suck knives or use these very soon dont bother to keep an edge anyway.

 Also to add to that.. electric sharpeners tend to heat the very tip of the edge, this removes the the hardening of the steel and will not keep an edge.
A knife blade blank is ordinary carbon steel.. it is filed and shaped and initial edge formed easy cause it has not yet been hardened.
 It is then heated to critcal temp.. basically red hot, then cooled very fast, in water or oil or even liquid nitrogen.
It now becomes to hard to file or saw, mill  and needs to be ground.  I also becomes very brittle, use it to lever something and the blade will snap...if too brittle it is them tempered.. heated to a low temp and cooled to relieve some of the bittlenes.
 putting a good steel be it a spade or knife on a grinder, linisher (as some.. a lot of knife sharpening professionals do!!)  heats that edge and destroys the steel crystal structures and therefore its ability to keep an edge.

As far as I know, the only application for roller or blade self sharpening on good steel is for military bayonet type applications.

reason I don't like Lansky its I don't have the patient & time to do them. 

 Time patience 
It takes me 15 to 20 strokes on the paper to touch up the edges after fillting around 25/ 30 fish...
10 to 15 to touch up the kitchen kniveas once a week.

Others will take far more.. and the reason is the knives arwe not stored, or used correctly..
Rec filleting a fish, when peeling back the top meat from the side, most ppl will draw the end edge of the knife down the side of the spine...This is the part of the knife that does the fine peeling back like a scalple. 
edge gone
 Run the very tip down...not the edge.

In the kitchen, same thing, draw the blade over a bone...or using a knife to cut a sandwich in 1/2 on a plate...the the blade edge at the end, edge gone..
 IF going to cut on a plate , like going down the side of the spine on a fish, use the very tip against the bone, not the edge at the tip.

And it is this sort of use of a knife that then makes having to form a NEW EDGE every time you sharpen.

 And that takes time and patience.
 Correct storage and knife skills removes both of the above.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish 4T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 9:56am
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Thank you Steps for explanation, very helpful. Thumbs Up


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish 4T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 10:21am
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After few youtube videos about knives sharpening and
exactly like Steps said "Is not rocket science".
Managed to sharpen my fillet & boning knives to very low angle after few trials,
you should give it ago Boyo rather than paying someone for it.

Here my setup with idea from youtube,
Whetstone on offcuts wood on the sink under dripping tap,
DIY brackets works a treat and I made some iki knives while at it to.

Now, I'm thinking should I spend more $ for ceramic whetstone.
it just never end, is it. :)

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote 700 LTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 10:47am
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I have a couple of filleting knives I use a victory and a Rhineland I picked up at the Miami boat show last year. 

I haven't stoned them for over a year now I run them over the steel before a filleting session, they are both sharp enough to shave the hairs off your arm 

Works for me and well and truly sharp enough for me! 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 12:14pm
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Yep I suppose it’s how far you want to take, I brought a rapala filleting knife from burnsco and one of their red electric shapeners. I just give the knife a tickle up before I start, cut all the way down the back bone through the rib cage and pin bones. Works for me.

Best thing then flour and batter and into the deep fryer
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 6:36pm
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I haven't stoned them for over a year now I run them over the steel before a filleting session

 The steel doent sharpen a edge.. it staighens out the burr.. you will find when the burr has broken off you will need to re hone.. be it a stone or strop..
Work the edge one way, form the burr, then the other, getting ligher pressure and finer grits as you go..

 I work the main edge around 30 deg.. that chops (dont draw it across the bones.) thru ribs , pin bones etc.. the steep edge keeps the edge longer
The tip curve around 20/22 deg.. that is where the filleting, peeling meat back from bones happens.. use the very tip no edge against splines etc

Same principle applies to lotas things.. a chainsaw.. cut pine.. 22 deg.. cut manuka or puriri 30/35 deg.. a 22 deg blade will dull very quick on hard wood.

Its not just the quaity of the steel, or the angle, but the skills of the person using the knife that determines how a blade stands up...
 A knowledgable and skilled knife person even with a crap soft very flexable steel knife will keep that edge far longer than a unskilled person with the best steel and edge in the world.
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

All our knives.. kitchen  and filleting are Green River.. now an obsolete brand  superseded by the Victory brand made by Goddards in East Tamaki


Hi Steps,

I salute your knowledge of all things sharpening, particularly the old school stuff.
However, I don't think you're correct that the Green River brand is obsolete or was superseded by Victory.
Green River skinning and boning knives (made by E Goddard - maker of Victory) are still available at farmer-oriented shops.

eg, Farm Source


Interestingly, there's a US 'Green River' brand as well, made by Dexter Russell these days. Mostly carbon steel. i wonder if the NZ knives were made here by E Goddard under licence??

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ho Dee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 9:13pm
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For anyone going  to Vietnam I got a guy who makes knives to make me a couple a filleting, a carving which they don't really have and one of those small about 8inch cleavers(I use this heaps).Dont know what sort of steel they are but it sort of rings when you flick it , got some numbers on them and stayed sharp as. Cheap as chips and wish I had bought  few more. You see workshops with guys making them all over. No problems with customs bringing them home.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 9:00am
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8inch cleavers(I use this heaps).
 and machetes
 2 so super handy yet in NZ so under utilised. 
Use of a solid cast cleaver, didnt get into those till about 10yrs back at Chinese friends place watching asking questions in the kitchen...
 Machete, Son came back after spending a few months working on very remote islands in the Solamins..I was pruning the plum trees and he pulled out the working machete he brought back out of the back of the truck...
 These to get right you form the edge.. like a axe, if you are left or right handed

People think the steel is the be all to end all.. it is not.. you can have the best steel in the world for your use, but if has not been hardened and annealed correctly for that use, you will be wasting your time.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote braveintranets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 9:31pm
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Timely thread. Read couple of articles,I decided to buy the Victorinox Fillet Knife, but it didn't come super sharp and after using it several times, it seems like the knife doesn't hold its edge all that great.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 9:56am
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Couple things
 Why Victorinox and not a NZ made victory?
Even so should keep an end.. most knives looese their edge very quickly due to how the knife is being used... Knives, filleting , carving meat, using an axe, macteete  etc is not just a matter of picking up and using...ther is a lot in how the knife is used.. skills
 eg most ppl will slide the end part of the blade down the back bone... and same cutting a sandwich on a plate..

And why ppl seem to want very flexable knives and except them to keep a good edge?
Regardless of carbon or SS, or what ever steel, a knife is heated up the blade hardened.. Very Brittle.. open a can and it will snap like a twig.  It is then  reheated to a lower temp depending on the characteristics required, which then makes the blade more flexible , and softer steel..on the edge.

Dont know much about that web site, but once upon a time chefs, carpenter, butchers, barbars 5/ 7 yr apprentice courses used to go right into blades, steels how , why.. now at best its just how to sharpen clean and store a knife.. and that very limited as well... A trade dosent make a craftsman.

And to even consider, let alone try and use a boning knife as per that web page to fillet fish... realy?

 Also note the 'fine print'
It is important to also note that EatrBox.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program.......

Had a bit of a read on that site.. including growing tomatoes and a few other bits... I will lay odds she has NEVER grown tomatoes..just take a lot of in depth stuff wrote an article that basically says tomatoes need very special attention...yeah right.... And I get the same impression on her knives.. not a mention of edges, types, angles, or how to use. or a simple way to check if sharp.. rem how sharp is dependant on the end use.

 ie 'A shave the hairs off' is a fine, 18 or 22 deg angle, .. very thing edge, not designed to fillet a fish or carve a roast...a Blade if check same as a fish hook on a thumb nail.. bits in will not slide at all is a good working sharp and either around 22 or 30 deg.

I suggest that you go to Bunsco .. marine deals   .dont think smart marine has them... and get a NZ made, with a world wide reputation of near on 100yrs victory knife.. and for filleting the white handle on the far right of the pic I posted... or if possible locate the same knife under the Green river name , now obsoleted.. both 
 And when use it NEVER... NEVER run the tip edge down a bone...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Boyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2019 at 11:35pm
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This has been an interesting thread and I have read all responses to my original question with interest. Steps you obviously have a keen interest and a lot of knowledge in knife sharpening.
I was driving through Kuaotunu today, while on holiday in the Coromandel, area and passed a business sign on the side of the road about hand forged knives so I turned around and called in see what it was all about. I got talking to a gentleman called Lloyd who makes hand forged knives out of car spring steel. A really interesting guy and he turnes out beautifully crafted knives. As it happened he also sharpens knives and I happened to have two of my filleting knives with me so I got him to sharpen them while I observed. First thing he did was run them over a slow moving, worn out 240 grit linishing belt to get the edge, then on to a 100 year old oil stone passed down from his grand father then onto a waxed polishing wheel to strop them. I noticed the angle he was working it at was higher than I have been using on my water stone. When finished they shaved the hair on his arm....all for a cost of $5 each
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 9:37am
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First thing he did was run them over a slow moving, worn out 240 grit linishing belt 

With such a coarse grit he would be making a new edge from scratch, as the old edge most bproberly out /chipped/ etc
 Slow.. no heat at all on the very edge.. heat knives instant kill the blade/ edge.
 linishing belt.. with a little pressure that give a convex edge... just the same as doing by hand on we and dry on a a firm foam pad.. as I describe above.

100 year old oil stone
 Not sure why then gone to the stone.. maybe because you use a stone ..  quality old stones well cared for/ re ground are far superior to el cheapo modern stones

then onto a waxed polishing wheel to strop them. 
Bit over kill for the end use of the knife, basically the same as stropping up a cut throat razor on a leather barber strop.. these are also impregnated with a oil/ wax that has very fine rouge (polishing grit) in it
  10 stroke either side on a fine well worn 1200 grit wet dry paper/ soft backing, then another 20 alternating sides will do damn near the same thing...

angle he was working it at was higher than I have been using on my water stone
 Would be because of the type/quality of steel and knowing what the end use of the knife

Got limit 20 good sized snaps couple days ago off the west coast.. m8 (member here) brought his well cared for chef knives...stone ground...
 He had to put his edge on the steel a few times.. my green river/ victory knife start to finish including cutting up 50 cm plus pin bones, skinning etc.. at the end still dug in on the thumb nail test, the full length of the blade.
 worn 1200 wet and dry on foam. 10 stokes each side alternatively put the working edge back on for the next lot fish.

Now you have your knives with good edge.. I mention this above.. when slicing down towards the back bone, use the very tip against the bone, not the edge at the tip..it is this edge at the  tip that that slices into skin, does the fine pell meat back off the bone, the fine edge that with very little incorrect effort will round over, break off the fine edge and become a mission to re form..

hand forged knives out of car spring steel.
 Not any car springs.. old pre late '50s and preferably out of old light weight cars..they have not been worked hard and the steel is high carbon and very little if any chromium in it.
 I have a couple sets of old bradford and ford prefect sets put away here.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Uncle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 2:37pm
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 Got tired of blunt knives & the dialogue above inspired me to buy a Lansky diamond system.

I just tickled up my bait knife & found I can cut paper holding the knife lightly with two fingers!
Yep, & that'll do me Big smile
Got Aunty to wield the phone camera for a photo opportunity but sadly, I can't load the magnificent result on here.
Is just too bloody difficult.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 3:22pm
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Expensive knives.. Knives I can't afford or need.
Now laid up a bit neighbour comes over with a svord general bush skiing knife.. I'd don't know the history other than was asked" can you sharpen this? " neighbour" I know the guy who can"

Sort of came about because son has been gifted a goudter knife from James goudter. His m8.. Party last night blah blah

Anyway I picked it and sheathe up.. Original sheath.. Don't know but a bit of folded conveyer belt riveted doesn't make the cut for me for a high end.. Well expensive knife
Next inspect the knife handle.. Wil come to that later
The blade.. Still has grinding marks in blade and at the tip they go down into the cutting edge..
I ask "has this knife Ben on a coarse linisher or grinder.. If so the edge could be stuffed.." let's assume the best and hasn't as the other side and rest of the edge looks OK.

Now start to strop up on 800 then 1200 then 1600.. A good hrs work and those bring marks not coming out of the tip edge fully.. But hey this is nice steel to work with.
The edge sticks on thumb nail one end to the other.

It shaves well also.. Very easy
Now the handle.. Basically a ms produced well designed handle with sharp edges.. A expensive knife should be able to be used for long periods and fit like a clove into the hand. Very dispainting.. My late 1960s green river chunky old school carbon steel knife if far more clove like.. And fits to the knife its self far better.

Anyway decide to put up on the leather strop. Load up the rouge.. This takes the edge.. Already a great working edge to the next level.. Just on 200 strokes..
The couple grinding marks that extend to the edge on one side cler of the edge by less than a hir diameter.

Was told this was about a $180 knife.. Sry the finish workmanship in my books doesn't Warrent that sort of money.. Even if I was to finish it off myself.
Nice steel Thu well anealed

Compared to the gouger knife of my sons
The sheath is nice leather simple practical hand made for that knife and very well well finished.. The pride in the workmanship just stands out.
The knive.. Handle a combo of leather and hard wood.. Wood can get a litle slippery in certain circumstance. It fits into the rest of the knife seemlessly to perfection.
And the finish.. I looked real hard. Not a fault.
The blade again the perfection of the the finish can't be faulted.
The edge. Wait for it honed to perfection.. And if was to hazard a guess by a land's key or similar setup. Faultless.
I have no idea what a knife of this stand stel annealing and finish would cost.. Damn I think I would be to scared to ever use it

It was open beside the BBQ last night.. Quite save.. And neighbour who jokingly said earlier he and knives don't have a god relationship. Brushed a finger along the edge. Don't feel a thing. Blood going everywhere.. A serious slice that took a lot of binding to slow down..
The knife had already seen 4 days up in the kimunuas in serious general use.

To qualify
Svorde back in 80s maybe 90s called in had a look very impressed.. Like any other "tourest"
Goulder.. Think may have met him once for a couple minutes a few yrs back at a party at my sons as he and his wife? Where leaving.. Would not recognise him in the street.
Apparently can be found on Facebook.. Went had a look back then. I just don't go to Facebook twtter places. Never have

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 7:26pm
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Here's a little I know about knives.

1:  It is a polarising subject

2:  Many knife makers build knives for the art rather than for function. They really are works of art to be admired and I am not knocking that

3: Carbon steel knives are great but don't meet modern hygiene standards for professional meat processors. I like carbon steel knives.

4: Knives need to be sharp

5: There is no 'one size fits all

6:  A diamond sharpener is an invaluable tool to have on board, even bait knives must be sharp

7: A filleting knife is just that, it's not for cutting bait, bones or other stuff.

Here are some things I think I know about knives:

1: a filleting knife doesn't really need to be flexible

2: A knife for filleting a marlin or kingfish is going to be a different knife for a snapper or gurnard

3: Your favourite knife is the best knife

4: Keep an open mind. My view on knives has changed so much over the years

5:  A $10 Wasabi or Black Magic knife is a great bait knife.





Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MightyBoosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 7:42pm
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My fishing buddy uses a $2 bait knife for most of his filleting. The fact that it cost $2 indicates how old it is. The blade is about 3 inches long and stiff. There is not a scrap of meat left on a fish frame when he is done with it and he's damn fast! I've just seen him fillet a marlin with the same knife. Skills over equipment! 


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 10:53pm
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Originally posted by MightyBoosh MightyBoosh wrote:

My fishing buddy uses a $2 bait knife for most of his filleting. The fact that it cost $2 indicates how old it is. The blade is about 3 inches long and stiff. There is not a scrap of meat left on a fish frame when he is done with it and he's damn fast! I've just seen him fillet a marlin with the same knife. Skills over equipment! 
Here's a little I know about knives.

1:  It is a polarising subject

There you go, proof! Big smile


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 11:32pm
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Skills over equipment..
Well put..

One end is good knives and no fingers.

The other is a quick sharpen of a $4 pams new world pairing.. Know how to use it.. Not hit bones and stuff and fillet a fish or

Or a cheaper well honed bush knife.. break down a goat or fallow real quick.
Put the skills and equipment together and one has artistry to watch.
I really wish my knife skills where as good as my edges.. I do know with my edges my knife skills look better than what they really are To the unintiated

I just felt rather disappointed in the finish of the edge and the handle.. Comfort of the svorde compare to what has used couple decades ago..
Put a $40 victory /Goddard's and a svorde in front of me I would grab the victory..
The goulder way out of price range..but if someone wanted a custom high end crafted knife with a blade and working edge to match..


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