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Sharpening Filleting Knives

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish 4T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 7:47am
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Any of you use or experience with Chef or Wuhstof Electric Knife Sharperner?
Are they any good for mixed set knives or filleting knives,
or better learn how to use Lansky properly.
reason I don't like Lansky its I don't have the patient & time to do them.






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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 8:53am
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Titanium
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The electric knife sharpeners are a quick soln to keep cheap std  high carbon crystral (microscopic saws described ) dispoable blades keep an edge.
 Quick simple and wear the blade down quick..if used when blunt ...but in most cases those who have suck knives or use these very soon dont bother to keep an edge anyway.

 Also to add to that.. electric sharpeners tend to heat the very tip of the edge, this removes the the hardening of the steel and will not keep an edge.
A knife blade blank is ordinary carbon steel.. it is filed and shaped and initial edge formed easy cause it has not yet been hardened.
 It is then heated to critcal temp.. basically red hot, then cooled very fast, in water or oil or even liquid nitrogen.
It now becomes to hard to file or saw, mill  and needs to be ground.  I also becomes very brittle, use it to lever something and the blade will snap...if too brittle it is them tempered.. heated to a low temp and cooled to relieve some of the bittlenes.
 putting a good steel be it a spade or knife on a grinder, linisher (as some.. a lot of knife sharpening professionals do!!)  heats that edge and destroys the steel crystal structures and therefore its ability to keep an edge.

As far as I know, the only application for roller or blade self sharpening on good steel is for military bayonet type applications.

reason I don't like Lansky its I don't have the patient & time to do them. 

 Time patience 
It takes me 15 to 20 strokes on the paper to touch up the edges after fillting around 25/ 30 fish...
10 to 15 to touch up the kitchen kniveas once a week.

Others will take far more.. and the reason is the knives arwe not stored, or used correctly..
Rec filleting a fish, when peeling back the top meat from the side, most ppl will draw the end edge of the knife down the side of the spine...This is the part of the knife that does the fine peeling back like a scalple. 
edge gone
 Run the very tip down...not the edge.

In the kitchen, same thing, draw the blade over a bone...or using a knife to cut a sandwich in 1/2 on a plate...the the blade edge at the end, edge gone..
 IF going to cut on a plate , like going down the side of the spine on a fish, use the very tip against the bone, not the edge at the tip.

And it is this sort of use of a knife that then makes having to form a NEW EDGE every time you sharpen.

 And that takes time and patience.
 Correct storage and knife skills removes both of the above.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish 4T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 9:56am
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Thank you Steps for explanation, very helpful. Thumbs Up


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish 4T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 10:21am
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After few youtube videos about knives sharpening and
exactly like Steps said "Is not rocket science".
Managed to sharpen my fillet & boning knives to very low angle after few trials,
you should give it ago Boyo rather than paying someone for it.

Here my setup with idea from youtube,
Whetstone on offcuts wood on the sink under dripping tap,
DIY brackets works a treat and I made some iki knives while at it to.

Now, I'm thinking should I spend more $ for ceramic whetstone.
it just never end, is it. :)

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote 700 LTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 10:47am
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I have a couple of filleting knives I use a victory and a Rhineland I picked up at the Miami boat show last year. 

I haven't stoned them for over a year now I run them over the steel before a filleting session, they are both sharp enough to shave the hairs off your arm 

Works for me and well and truly sharp enough for me! 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 12:14pm
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Yep I suppose it’s how far you want to take, I brought a rapala filleting knife from burnsco and one of their red electric shapeners. I just give the knife a tickle up before I start, cut all the way down the back bone through the rib cage and pin bones. Works for me.

Best thing then flour and batter and into the deep fryer
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 6:36pm
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Titanium
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I haven't stoned them for over a year now I run them over the steel before a filleting session

 The steel doent sharpen a edge.. it staighens out the burr.. you will find when the burr has broken off you will need to re hone.. be it a stone or strop..
Work the edge one way, form the burr, then the other, getting ligher pressure and finer grits as you go..

 I work the main edge around 30 deg.. that chops (dont draw it across the bones.) thru ribs , pin bones etc.. the steep edge keeps the edge longer
The tip curve around 20/22 deg.. that is where the filleting, peeling meat back from bones happens.. use the very tip no edge against splines etc

Same principle applies to lotas things.. a chainsaw.. cut pine.. 22 deg.. cut manuka or puriri 30/35 deg.. a 22 deg blade will dull very quick on hard wood.

Its not just the quaity of the steel, or the angle, but the skills of the person using the knife that determines how a blade stands up...
 A knowledgable and skilled knife person even with a crap soft very flexable steel knife will keep that edge far longer than a unskilled person with the best steel and edge in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 9:05pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

All our knives.. kitchen  and filleting are Green River.. now an obsolete brand  superseded by the Victory brand made by Goddards in East Tamaki


Hi Steps,

I salute your knowledge of all things sharpening, particularly the old school stuff.
However, I don't think you're correct that the Green River brand is obsolete or was superseded by Victory.
Green River skinning and boning knives (made by E Goddard - maker of Victory) are still available at farmer-oriented shops.

eg, Farm Source


Interestingly, there's a US 'Green River' brand as well, made by Dexter Russell these days. Mostly carbon steel. i wonder if the NZ knives were made here by E Goddard under licence??

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ho Dee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 9:13pm
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For anyone going  to Vietnam I got a guy who makes knives to make me a couple a filleting, a carving which they don't really have and one of those small about 8inch cleavers(I use this heaps).Dont know what sort of steel they are but it sort of rings when you flick it , got some numbers on them and stayed sharp as. Cheap as chips and wish I had bought  few more. You see workshops with guys making them all over. No problems with customs bringing them home.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 9:00am
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8inch cleavers(I use this heaps).
 and machetes
 2 so super handy yet in NZ so under utilised. 
Use of a solid cast cleaver, didnt get into those till about 10yrs back at Chinese friends place watching asking questions in the kitchen...
 Machete, Son came back after spending a few months working on very remote islands in the Solamins..I was pruning the plum trees and he pulled out the working machete he brought back out of the back of the truck...
 These to get right you form the edge.. like a axe, if you are left or right handed

People think the steel is the be all to end all.. it is not.. you can have the best steel in the world for your use, but if has not been hardened and annealed correctly for that use, you will be wasting your time.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote braveintranets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 9:31pm
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Timely thread. Read couple of articles,I decided to buy the Victorinox Fillet Knife, but it didn't come super sharp and after using it several times, it seems like the knife doesn't hold its edge all that great.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 9:56am
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Couple things
 Why Victorinox and not a NZ made victory?
Even so should keep an end.. most knives looese their edge very quickly due to how the knife is being used... Knives, filleting , carving meat, using an axe, macteete  etc is not just a matter of picking up and using...ther is a lot in how the knife is used.. skills
 eg most ppl will slide the end part of the blade down the back bone... and same cutting a sandwich on a plate..

And why ppl seem to want very flexable knives and except them to keep a good edge?
Regardless of carbon or SS, or what ever steel, a knife is heated up the blade hardened.. Very Brittle.. open a can and it will snap like a twig.  It is then  reheated to a lower temp depending on the characteristics required, which then makes the blade more flexible , and softer steel..on the edge.

Dont know much about that web site, but once upon a time chefs, carpenter, butchers, barbars 5/ 7 yr apprentice courses used to go right into blades, steels how , why.. now at best its just how to sharpen clean and store a knife.. and that very limited as well... A trade dosent make a craftsman.

And to even consider, let alone try and use a boning knife as per that web page to fillet fish... realy?

 Also note the 'fine print'
It is important to also note that EatrBox.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program.......

Had a bit of a read on that site.. including growing tomatoes and a few other bits... I will lay odds she has NEVER grown tomatoes..just take a lot of in depth stuff wrote an article that basically says tomatoes need very special attention...yeah right.... And I get the same impression on her knives.. not a mention of edges, types, angles, or how to use. or a simple way to check if sharp.. rem how sharp is dependant on the end use.

 ie 'A shave the hairs off' is a fine, 18 or 22 deg angle, .. very thing edge, not designed to fillet a fish or carve a roast...a Blade if check same as a fish hook on a thumb nail.. bits in will not slide at all is a good working sharp and either around 22 or 30 deg.

I suggest that you go to Bunsco .. marine deals   .dont think smart marine has them... and get a NZ made, with a world wide reputation of near on 100yrs victory knife.. and for filleting the white handle on the far right of the pic I posted... or if possible locate the same knife under the Green river name , now obsoleted.. both 
 And when use it NEVER... NEVER run the tip edge down a bone...
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