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Sharpening Filleting Knives

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    Posted: 23 Aug 2018 at 10:44pm
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Does anyone know of a business in Hamilton, or close by, that provides a knife sharpening service.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Metal Float Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 9:58am
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Sorry can't help with Hamilton - but have to add that I've experienced quite a lot of poor `professional' knife sharping so suggest you look to verify any recommendation. I picked up a range of `throw-way' knives and practised and practised so now do my own on a stone.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 10:32am
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Go back thru older threads..
 There are instuction on what sort of steel need application.. very critical to maintaining edges.
 And handling.. drawing a blade across a bone kills an edge
 And how to sharpen, including convex edges.  
 Also certain applications.. eg fish, may require a steep (30/35 deg edge closer to the handle  for cutting pin bones, breast plates, and 22 deg for tip, filleting , peeling meat from bones.

 Basic secret is form the burr one side , then the other from the coarse stone right thru to final stroping .. if going that far

Is not rocket science, dont need a phd.. 

 my personal preference is convex edges on all our knives.. kitchen, boat, hunting , matcettes... even the old German NCO  dress bayonet.. which is the same edge as a old cut throat razor.

If converting say a high carbon steel or SS, green river or victory fillet knife or kitchen knife to convex.. like all sharpening  will be around 1000 to 1200 strokes starting with 400 grit to 1200 grit.

 Burr and Patience...no short cuts is the secret to the edge
 Correct use, and storage to maintaining.
NEVER / NEVER put a good knife in a draw dish washer or laid alongside other knives.. wood block, magnetic wall strip, sheath..a must. and alway oiled..kitchen non stick aerosolcooking oil simplest way to go.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote waynorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 11:06am
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You can buy a Lansky sharpening system for about a hundred bucks & get consistent good results yourself. Same cost would probably only get you a few knives professionally sharpened.
treat fish like fish
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I imported some diamond sharpeners for woodworking. And then just watched all the youtube's on sharpening. 
Between that and a steel between every snapper doing alright.
Here fishy, fishy fishy.... Nom, nom, nom
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Originally posted by waynorth waynorth wrote:

You can buy a Lansky sharpening system for about a hundred bucks & get consistent good results yourself. Same cost would probably only get you a few knives professionally sharpened.

Ditto, re Spyderco. Great for all except the convex edges Steps mentioned. 
Two or three sharpenings at a farmer's market knife guy and you've paid the cost of a new Victory!

Sadly, I've given up on my Svord filleting knife which has a convex edge. It wasn't the top of the range wooden handle one, but my skills with sandpaper on mouse pads and all the rest of the convex sharpening techniques that look so easy on YouTube just don't seem up to it.

When I fillet I don't go through any bones, just pare alongside the skeleton. Chopping through backbones before cooking up frames is done with a big machete style old carbon steel knife, not my filleting one.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 5:07pm
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 but my skills with sandpaper on mouse pads
 That could be you your problem..
 The is a lot of stuff on U tube that  will work once then doesn't hold the edge, cant get the initial results back...
 The mouse pad is waaay to small.. a full sheet of QWUAITY wet n cry paper.. clamped to a large sheet of that stuff u see at the red shed sold as yoga pads...
 And do it on a flat stable surface..a thick chopping block or the edge of the table.. and nothing slips.

 I have been looking around for quite a while, a suitable light weight linisher that can take fine grit papers and can be use wet... rather than by hand.. may have to end up making one .. have been thinking out of an old light weight bandsaw.

Dont get trapped into the show off BS "look can shave the hairs on my arm"
 To do that and hold the edge.. that is specialist steel scaped a special way, and fine thickness... its called a cut throat razor.. not a filleting or carving knife.
 The later due to blade edge shape will not stay sharp or even hold the edge long.. and will blint quick as the burr snaps off.
Sharp?
 General use knives, check the sameway as you check your fish hooks... rest the blade on your thumb nail and gentle sideway movement.. if it slides its blunt.. if it doesnt slide its sharp.
 And Julia Child.. the cook.. classic description.. lay the knife with its own weight on a tomato, and drag it back with 2 fingers.. it should cut at least 1/2 way thru a good sized tomato..

 The slice the paper...get your knife sharp then try different papers/ cardboard.. can get impressive results with  only near sharp edges...that will side on a thumb nail.

 Again lot what u see on u tube is misleading.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Boyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 9:13pm
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Hi Steps
 
Thanks for your response. Currently I have a 1000/3000 water stone and I think one of my problems is failing to maintain a constant angle. I like the look of the Lansky system and might investigate that more.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Boyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 9:20pm
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Thanks for your response Waynorth. I think I will follow up on this.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 9:23pm
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A lot depends on brand of knife as well,some will hold shape and stay sharp for a few fillets others will do a fillet and never get the edge back,spend time researching knives. 

water water everywhere,how many fish does it hold?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 8:32am
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 I think one of my problems is failing to maintain a constant angle. I like the look of the Lansky system and might investigate that more.

That is about muscle memory.. like when riding a bike or learning to drive a manual car, you have to think about pedaling or clutch/ change gear...after a while you can do a whole trip then at the end realise that you cant rem actually changing the gear..
To get angle.. vertical is 90 deg  1/2 is 45 deg, 1/2 that is 33 deg... then wipe the blade on the stone.. one side till get that burr.
 The lanskeys are excellent...down side, when you dont have it around, and need it ..
Once upon a time  knife/ chisel/ scissors/axe/ chainsaws.. types of steel, application, angle and how to was part of an apprentice trade.
 Butcher , barber, chef, carpenter, cabinet maker, seamstress, forestry...

Brands.. that's about type of steel, and the metalology that goes into that steel mentioned above.

NEVER... NEVER put a knife on a grinder, even light.. the heat generated on the edge takes about all the annealing.. leaves soft steel.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Billfish2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 9:29am
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Hi There is a company called courier sharpening, they could help you out.

I am a qualified butcher, I can’t emphasise the importance of using a good Stone / and a good steel. Use the steel every 10 cuts or so. It is critical to steel the knife the exact same angle you stone the knife. (Otherwise you will get a shoulder on the knife)

I stone and steel my knife on a 15 degree angle.

Very important to keep stone clean and clean steel after use.


The steel takes the very small burs off the knife.

Some good brand of steel is Dick, and knifes Victroniox, Dick.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 9:32am
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PS 
If want to play.. be it stone or convex..
 Get a $5  Pams paring knife from new world/ pak n Save.
These come up with a good edge... go for the steeper 30 deg angle.. stone or stroping.
 And use a heavy grit/ stone.. a 400 wet n dry paper
 You pull more off and can see your angles etc, and being a short blade adds to that also.
 Get both sides , the area you are working even.
 The tip is the hardest, sort of lift the handle as you go around the curve of the tip.

You will not get that burr even at 30 deg at 1st.. those knives er more high 30s..what you will be doing is working down the shoulder (bit between the main blade and working surface.. not the edge down.
 When that shoulder has been worked down you will feel the burr forming.. 
Then the other side..
 If you find you have the burr.. then next time althu you think have angle right, no burr.. its because your angle has changed and working the shoulder.
Once the intial burr is forming each side, then 10 light strokes each side.. fineburr, and go to lighter grit.
 600... 10 strokes each side then 5 strokes
 Then lighter grit.. 800 or even 1200... 
 10 strokes then 5  then 3 then 5 to 10 swapping each time.
Stone..you push into the stone..
 Stropping you drag away.

A steel doesnt sharpen a dull blade...it simply straightens out the burr.. once that burr has broken away , the steel will not re form it, its back to the stone/ stroping.
Someone mentioned wisely above about a quick run on the steel after each fish.. which is what that is doing.. a butcher does the same thing.
 After a while you will feel when a burr has bent...never push , do the next fish if burr has bent.. you will break it off.

And it is here lot people believe they cant create a edge that stays sharp...its not the edge its maintenance of that edge.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 1:39pm
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Originally posted by Billfish2 Billfish2 wrote:

Hi There is a company called courier sharpening, they could help you out.

I am a qualified butcher, I can’t emphasise the importance of using a good Stone / and a good steel. Use the steel every 10 cuts or so. It is critical to steel the knife the exact same angle you stone the knife. (Otherwise you will get a shoulder on the knife)

I stone and steel my knife on a 15 degree angle.

Very important to keep stone clean and clean steel after use.


The steel takes the very small burs off the knife.

Some good brand of steel is Dick, and knifes Victroniox, Dick.
15 dregree angle that would closer filleting to bone less waste?

water water everywhere,how many fish does it hold?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kiwi Koro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 3:25pm
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Believe it or not my best filleting knife is a $20 Thin blade Wiltshire Stayshrp knife, sharpens itself every time I pull it out of the scabbard,the occasional steel whilst filleting and skinning,always razor sharp.
I also buy the older ones in the orange sharpener scabbard from markets and Op shops as they make mean bait knives,always sharp as.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 5:17pm
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Just over a week ago we came back over the bar with a good 25/ 30 nice  sized snapper, KY.
 A well known local fisherman, from a well know fishing family, used my filleting knife while I washed down the boat etc.

He could not believe how the knife stayed sharp right to the end, even when chopping thru rib and pin bones...
 And at the end of it.. the blade still dug in when tested on his thumb nail.. like a fish hook.
Not once was a steel or anything used.
 And being a convex edge, no way do you put a steel on such an edge...

 Stay sharp knives are not 'sharp'
 The carbon crystals do not dissolve in the lower grade steels. As the knife is used, or drawn thru the 'sharpener' the crystals break out and off on the edge leaving a microscopic saw edge with broken glass sharp edges...
 These edges very quickly blunted requiring constant attention....ideal situation for constant sharpening demos at boat and home shows..

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:34pm
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Steps what is your brand of knife ?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=717361
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 8:56am
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All our knives.. kitchen  and filleting are Green River.. now an obsolete brand  superseded by the Victory brand made by Goddards in East Tamaki

The older skinning carving knives I brought back in late 60s early 70s are non stainless green river
The later knives 21 st century are both victory and green river...
Boning / filleting etc

My bait knives are $5 pams  New World pairing knives.
 The kitchen cleaver is a $10 non stainless  iron brought at flea market.
 
The fish splitter is a small matchette...

They have in recent yrs all been converted from stone honed to convex edges, and stropped (like a cut throat razor).
 
If you look close at the edges of top of the line exotic hand made brands you will see they also have convex edges.
There is a lot of time and work forming up a good convex edge on a hardened steel of a good knife...ie there is around 1500 to 2000 strokes on something like a std victory carving or filleting knife. on 800 to 1200 grit wet and dry.

Is the effort worth it? yes
 Once one starts to use knives , kitchen, bait board, breaking down fish beasts etc one will keep those knives with a good edge.
 And doing so once have the edge built up takes far less time and effort than rebuilding burrs on stones.

I grew up in a old school barber shop days of cut throats, leather stropes etc...For decades used stones , converted 1 knife a while back, now all are...
 Be it good steel or elcheapo Pams pairing knives , the edge goes thru far more , stays sharp longer and needs far less maintenance.

Al you need is a bit of the sponge stuff  the thinner yoga mats are made of and a few wet. dry sheets of 800 grit (for initial shaping) and  1200
 The sponge takes care of the convex shaped edge.

 Edit: added pic  had trouble doing so before
left to right
Steel  GR carving   Steel GR skinning GR SS carving, 2X pams bait, iron cleaver, fish splitter, GR SS carving, Victory SS Fish Fillet, GR SS boning /fillet

 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote John_Ra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 9:50am
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Just finished reading thru these posts... interesting...

my 2 bobs worth :-)
Used an oil stone for years, now use 1000/3000 whetstone
brilliant I reckon. Yes watched youtube...
I can maintain a pretty good angle when sharpening. Can get the
piece to put on your knife to help maintain that angle.
whetstone & steel, knife is good to go. Got my knives from Save Barn on saleyards road Otahuhu...
Some on here go a bit overboard on their knives & keeping them sharp & that's ok for them.

Me: I tell myself your only filleting "Fish!!" not doing surgery!!
In the end it is upto you on what you want.....


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 10:51am
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Me: I tell myself your only filleting "Fish!!" not doing surgery!!
In the end it is upto you on what you want.....

And yes that is the general consensus...
 Till one starts to use good steel and good edges.. regardless how formed... that dont need a steel after filleting 25 plus good sized snaps/ KY
 And filleting is a tiny part.. carving a roast, the Xmas ham..slicing a tomato..
Then they , have a go at their knives.. general that doesnt last because they dont have the patience to complete the exercise.
Not much different to the new lawn mower cutting the lawn so nice.. and never bother to maintain the blade edge.

 But once you get the hang of stropping or wet stone on basic knives.. then take those skills to a quality steel knife and know not to draw over a bone, espec the tip, and how to store etc...that session filleting a full bin, and when getting tried of the pile still in front of you... and the knife is peeling back meat as it did on the 1st fish...or beast

 Something most people never see let alone experience...unless happen to use someones well prepared knife....and the example I gave above of person using mine...that is the 1st time EVER I have allowed someone to use my knife..


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