Rotoiti

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Coochdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 8:22pm
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Fish and game seem to be very absent this year,ive seen a ranger only once in the last 6 trips. Fishing the weekends mostly and a few mid week missions.As redfinger said there is a huge amount of smelt in the lake so no shortage of food.The last big rain event we were getting fish with the same fin clips (RP) that were around 6lb and they were all 3 year olds.Still very impressive fish, four year old fish seem few and far between these days..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 10:23pm
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Last time I was there I had a discussion with the F&G scientist about the wall and diversion of nutrients     They are monitoring that but also recon that there are enough nutrients deposited in the lake mud, which circulate during the winter when the lake water mixes.    Apparently there is a hole in the wall that lets in more nutrient rich Rotorua water.      
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2016 at 2:02pm
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I highly doubt food source is the issue, there is a ton of smelt in that lake. Although, smelt is traditionally a higher energy expending food source for trout than say koura and bullies which might slow the growth a bit. I also doubt water clarity is the problem, as Okataina has some of the clearest water in the region and this doesn't seem to effect things beyond the natural decline in fishing quality seen everywhere be it lake or sea due to increased fishing pressure. Likely it is the reduced pressure from poor water quality that would correlate water quality as a factor. 

I'm no scientist, but as an armchair critic, one would have to question the merit of continuing to harvest eggs from Tarawera given there has probably only been a handful of 10lb+ fish pulled of that lake in the last 5 years combined.... Suppose that's where the infrastructure and consistent fish runs come into play though.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Nebuchadnezzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2016 at 9:36pm
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Dunno what you're all crying about, I reckon the lakes just fine. Im picking next season to be an absolute cracker going by the condition and numbers of fish caught this autumn/winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2016 at 1:18pm
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I agree mostly - im very impressed with quality of fish this season myself (esp considering im usually a Taupo fisherman).
It is interesting though to hear different opinions and compare to previous years.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2016 at 1:25pm
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The Rotoiti trout are a clear reflection of a healthy food chain.    Looking at the recent decline of the Tarawera fish one can only conclude that all is not well with that lake's food chain as indicated by the smaller size and relative paucity of smelt.     No one really knows the cause or causes.    However, geographically Tarawera acts as a sink of the outflows of several other lakes, some of which have very active thermal vents, the intensity of which may vary over time and with it the contribution of toxic or benign minerals in the water column.     Then there is the productivity of the surrounding lands that contributes to the nutrient supply of the lake.     This can also vary from one year to the next as demonstrated at the largely pristine surrounds of Lake Okataina.    Whatever the problems with the Tarawera fishery are they may well be beyond the capacity of F&G to do much about it.     Maybe in time things might change for the better again??????
As I understand it the continued collection of breeding fish from Tarawea is to regularly supplement the hatchery bred R strain with "wild" stock to prevent inbreeding.     F&G also harvest "late" spawners in order to extend the Rotoiti winter lake shore fly fishing season.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hunterfisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2016 at 1:20pm
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Originally posted by Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar wrote:

Dunno what you're all crying about, I reckon the lakes just fine. Im picking next season to be an absolute cracker going by the condition and numbers of fish caught this autumn/winter.

Agreed mate,our  best season jigging on Rotoiti in the last 4 years, fat fish and plenty of them in a fair few spots  Wink. Man i can not wait for summer.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2016 at 2:44pm
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wasn't disputing the quality of the jigging (i mainly jig during the open season and fly fish during winter), what we were discussing was the lack of decent sized mature fish showing up at the liberation points this winter, and over the past 2 or 3 winters. in years gone by the largest quantity of bigger fish were always caught winter from the shoreline, with the odd exception. now alot more seem to get pulled out during the rest of the year, mostly from jigging. was just trying to work out if that is a coincidence, or if there could be more to it e.g. alot of the larger fish now getting harvested prior to moving in to spawn in the winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Micsam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2016 at 8:01pm
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RC17 I think you answered your own question and I don't think with Rotoiti it's any coincidence that shoreline winter fishing now is a shadow of its former self pre jigging. It's a compounding problem too. The amount of hours now required to get fish fly fishing from the release points doesn't justify the time when compared to jigging. Shame in some ways not catching double figure fish in winter fly fishing any more but I suppose the majority of boat fishos don't care.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote o Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 7:50am
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I know I can't catch a fish from the shore there, my casting has even gone to the pack there.
I guess my licence is not worth the same as someone who goes jigging and F and G have set up the fishery to suit them. great, not.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 12:34pm
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One would assume that the fish that come in winter to the release points are those that are mature and are looking for somewhere to spawn.     As I understand it the majority of them are hatchery bred R-Strain and thus late (4year old ) maturing fish.    With regular creel surveys F&G should be able to work out what percentage of such fish are part of the overall fish stock from one year to the next.   
If there is a good percentage of such fish left but double figure fish are still rare than one must conclude the stocking rate is too high for the amount of food available irrespective of how many smelt show up on the sounder.  It may just mean that the effort of catching enough smelt for rapid growth is too much and the fish remain smaller.    
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Micsam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 3:00pm
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Rainbow, there were plenty of fish reaching double digits late 80,s and up till 2000 before jigging pressure became extreme. I don't think one needs to complicate it. The vast majority can't get bigger when they are slipped into boat chilly bins at 4-6pound.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 3:56pm
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Micsam I share your opinion because I fished there when the Big Fish programme started.   However, I would like to see it proven and one can only do that with reliable data.   
I stayed at the hatchery when Len or Frank Newman, the then hatchery manager lent me Peter Melcrests hand written notes about his ideas for this programme.  I stayed up all night reading this festinating account.     It was not just  Rotoiti that showed the results I caught 3 fish over 12lbs from Okataina and several nudging 10lbs and not all night fishing either.    A young lady (Jenny) who worked at the hatchery and trained falcons took me to "Fort Knox" a heavily secured enclosure on the spring creek inside the hatchery.    There they held the huge stud fish for the breeding programme including double figure fish from above the Waitangi Falls from the Ruakituri.    Massive fish both browns and rainbows if I remember rightly.    
Incidentally the Wildlife Service at Taupo also started to collect 10lbs+ rainbows and held them at the Turangi hatchery,     They named one Cassius and other names and were going to start a similar big fish breeding programme but the purists stopped that dead.    One morning I saw one of the studfish washed up dead at the screens of the hatchery creek.
I very much doubt that with the copious spawning grounds available at Taupo such a programme would have succeeded.    On the other hand it would not have done any harm either.   What disturbs me most about Taupo is the lack of imagination to address the huge variations in fish quality and the sheer political inertia that stifles any initiatives .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 4:22pm
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The last time I winter night fished Rotoiti was at the Pipe.    The fishing was so slow that I started first sitting on the pipe and finally straddling it like a horse.  Nothing at all happened either to my line or anybody else's.      I must have nodded off and slumped over which caused me to slip off the pipe.     I woke up when the shock of the freezing water hit my face and shot down inside my waders.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote o Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 9:35pm
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That's more exciting than Ive found there in the last couple of trips.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2016 at 12:37pm
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Does anybody know if F&G is still collecting breeding fish from the Te Wairoa trap at Tarawera?     And further do anglers still donate wild double figure fish from that lake to the breeding programme?    
It is generally known that the quality of fish at this lake has gone down in recent years. While this is regrettable it makes any big fish from there that much more valuable.   
 
Why? Because under these stressed living conditions a few fish seem to have done better than the average.     So why have they done better?    Have they figured out how to exploit existing food sources better?    Do they convert food into trout flesh more efficiently?   Do they reach maturity later than the average?    Do they display a preference for say Koura or small trout as opposed to largely living on smelt?    Whatever that is it is clear that their superior size is no accident.
 
In other livestock breeding such minute trait are carefully identified and replicated in subsequent breeding programmes, which over time results in high performance animals.     
 
Why only focus on Tarawera?    Are there other sources worth looking at?   
What makes the rainbows of the Flaxy Lakes grow so well.    I have fished there for a good 20 years and have personally seen rainbows coming out of the lower lake up to 14.5lbs.    I have also caught quite a few rainbows to near 10lbs but never one reaching the magic 10lbs.    
 
What makes me interested in this lake is the fact that these fish grow to this size in a couple of ponds that have no koura  no smelt and until recently no large snails     How do I know this?    My good friend Rudi Ferris has a very comprehensive written record of stomach contents of all fish killed during January- April, dating back for at least 15years.    None of the above mentioned examples have ever shown up.     So what is it that makes these trout grow to this size?    Worth having a closer look.    A few big fish can be harvested before the poachers get them from the small spawning stream exiting into the top lake.
 
The R-Strain programme has been a huge success, which shows what innovative thinking can produce.    What other possibilities are out there that can address todays challenges?
 
Rainbow
 
PS One often sees large rainbows in Lake Taupo containing several koura.    From all the thousands of trout I have caught there such trout are the exception.    Yet there are millions of koura in this lake while most of the starving rainbows are chasing tiny smelt.   
 
This is an interesting question that might be equally if not more relevant to the largely Put and Take Rotorua lakes fisheries.    Can trout be conditioned to develop a taste for koura from the fry stage by being fed finely blended koura particles in the hatchery?        I am pretty sure that if koura were to form part of their daily diet as they grow up in the rearing races they would very likely hunt wild koura once released into the lakes.
 
        
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 10:59pm
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eg-YRWnVt4

 
What impressed me was the recoil braid and how it activated the lure.    I think this could give the jigging flies some extra spastic movement.     I don't have access to this braid and have used a single strand of rubber from the core of a shock cord.     I used a Swift swivel for the dropper and this avoided most dropper tangles with the main line when the fly jumped.   The rubber band really jerked the fly around; at least in the air.    Will have to try it in clear water to see if it also gives these erratic jerks.
 
In one of my previous posts I commented on watching a guy wrist flicking the rod to produce a more erratic fly movement.    I wonder if the rubber band will do much the same.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 12:12pm
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Interesting concept for sure Rainbow.
I know who imports the current nz range of savage gear so will ask if they plan to bring this product in .

Speaking to Pat swift he often leaves the Rods in rod holder when trout jigging - so movement not always that important? Probably depends on the day - sometime fish want more action before they strike.

Can see how this  recoil braid system could cross over to soft baiting and micro jigging for snapper too.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 2:42pm
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Very interesting guys.

In his excellent book on soft baiting, John Eichelsheim has several sections which mention drop shotting using a Palomar knot on the leader - which keeps the hook (worm or circle) perpendicular to the leader in a similar way to that complicated looking set up that guy uses.
That elastic bottom section is an innovation beyond what John writes about, but I have used his version with pretty good success on snapper in the Waitemata while at anchor in about 20m. I just put a rig with two Gulp 4" grubs above a tear drop sinker in the rod holder while i fish bait out the back. Standing straight out from the leader, head into the current, gave the grubs' tails a fantastic wriggling action and the snapper went for it.

As an aside, I don't think I've ever seen a video with more logo placement than that one. It's a wonder he hasn't got Savage Gear tattooed on his forehead - possibly will have that in his contract next time!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 2:49pm
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PS. Redfinger, my view is that leaving gear in the rod holder actually gives lures a more jerky movement than most of us can do by hand - as i said in my threads about beginner jigging at Tarawera, a rod left dangling over the stern of my dinghy, therefore open to the vagaries of chop and bottom bouncing really seemed to work. The tip of the Ugly Stik I was using was going bananas at times.

Obviously that's not going to be very effective if it's flat calm.
And you have to guard against point loading a graphite rod if your rod holder is very vertical.
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