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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote *stu* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2016 at 11:25pm
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The fish I have had this year from the shore would average probably 6.5lb but nothing above 8lb (about 20 fish). Nice conditioned just not the monsters everyone is after.

Caught one with a long jigging rig hanging out it's mouth.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2016 at 11:33pm
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Ive fished rotoiti for the last 5 years, and have no idea what impact these things may have, but some variables would be - taupo fishing like crap for a number of years and alot of those anglers making their say to rotorua instead, particularly rotoiti. Tarawera fishing poorly size wise for several years, sending more pressure rotoitis way. Population growth in tauranga, sending more pressure rotoitis way. Personally i cant say my jigging efforts would dent the local population more than any other method, but do hear yarns of guys having 25+ fish days which i would imagine were more uncommon pre-jigging - trolling for example you cant work the same patch of feeding fish as quickly... fish grow to trophy size pretty quick in that lake and we have caught some beautiful 6 and 7lbers in the last 12 months with all fish in great knick so cant imagine they are all getting caught. 2012 was the last decent winter i had from the shore with a couple of fish well into double figures lost and a 7lb average weight. Havent got out as much last few winters though
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Micsam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2016 at 9:28am
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I along with my close fishing mates all jigg Rotoiti and have for years. We have also flyfished the shoreline since pre jigging. I have absolutley no doubt I am part of the shoreline appalling fishing problem when compared to even 10 years ago. Jigging has meant we are now excited about a 4 pound fish. It's so simple less fish get to grow over 6pound and make it back to spawning. That's obviously what the majority want smaller silver maiden fish over large trophy spawning fish cause there's no less jigging.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2016 at 10:06am
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maybe Lake Rotoiti would benefit from a slight reduction in limit bag - maybe down to 4- 5 fish?
I remember the few times I tried shoreline fishing at Night at Rotoiti quite a few years ago now - I was inexperienced then and didnt catch any but on 3 occassions tried didnt see any other  fish caught by the crowd at Ruato either. Maybe just a quiet period which does happen.
Interesting comments from guys that obviously know what they are doing shoreline fishing now. ALTHOUGH A 5-6 LB average is still significantly superior to Taupo at the moment.
I have heard some reasonable shoreline reports from Okataina lately.
Do people think the larger fish were caught jigging back in the summer / early autumn? Is that usual at Rotoiti? That is definitely my experience and observation.
We dont want Rotoiti to go the way of Tarawera and loose all these big fish that have made this lake famous for quite a while now.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Coochdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2016 at 11:29am
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One theory i here often that makes sense to me is the use of ova taken from smaller Tarawera fish.Big fish breed big fish?Back in the big fish days the rangers use to be out alot more collecting large angler donated fish.Hate to think of the amount of good fish Bugsy has donated over the years from Tarawera,a few from Rotoiti were being donated also.Coles stream on Rotoiti is a good example of small fish breed small fish,Most of the fish caught at the mouth and observed in the stream are 3lb max.They appear to be a completly differant sub species of fish.During big rain events when the Rotoiti creeks are up some of the larger fish could easily be harvested for ova ,just one of the many theorys out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Micsam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2016 at 11:44am
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Red finger I don't think a reduction in limit would have any effect why? Because us jiggers only take the best fish anyway from what is caught. Does it make any difference that I keep two of the largest from 8 fish or two of the largest from 4 fish and release as many as I want. To me it's simply the maths anything over 4 odd pound is being wacked on the head and now there is way more people doing just that. The fish still have the good R strain genes or whatever they are and many would wait until four years to spawn, problem is they are dealt a hefty head blow before making it that old. Only way to increase the amount of bigger trout would be to introduce a maximum upper size limit that can be killed.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2016 at 12:00pm
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As I understand it the large fish are all late maturing fish 4+ instead of 3 years.  That extra year's growth and plenty of food makes the difference.     Then there is the question of what happens to the big fish after spawning?    Rotoiti certainly has the food for such fish not only to recover but to pile on more growth.     This happened at Aniwhenua during the net weed days where all the monsters were recovering spawners that grew even bigger.    I cant recall if I ever looked at the vents of my double figure fish to see if they were maidens or second/third spawners.     Must ask the F&G scientists next time I am in Rotorua.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2016 at 12:01pm
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What about only allowed 1 fish over 60cm? initially anyway.
Good points raised there- everyone really.
Spare a thought for us poor Jafas that only get to fish 4-5 times a season !! We cant have you locals catching ALL the big fish! Joke.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 10:04am
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suppose the responsibility ultimately lies with the angler, which unfortunately is a bit of a doomed proposition.

we only tend to keep the 4-5lb table fish, with everything above or below generally going back. I have seen guys jigging with 3 or 4 people on board and knock 12+ fish on the head within 2 hours, often many of those over 5lb. don't see the need really, i guess while some are fishing for food, for many its that sense of satisfaction that it doesn't feel like you had a good days fishing unless you have the full bin to prove it....

personally I would be quite happy to go with a 1 fish per angler over 60cm quota, but if this was the case it would need to be applied to the shoreline winter guys too, because let's face it, whether a fish gets knocked on the head jigging in summer at 9lb, or in winter at 10lb, if it hasn't had a chance to spawn yet the result is no different.... on a good winters day, more 6lb+ fish will be knocked on the head in 1 day than an entire couple of weeks by boat fisherman....

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 3:26pm
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Yes agreed - I would be happy with half a dozen at the most - 4-5lbers - remember i dont get there all the time. A quick photo of the biggie and released would work for me.

How did you find the season overall RC17? COMPARED to previous years and and different patterns developing 

/ You can pm me if you prefer?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Coochdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 7:51pm
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RC17 are we talking size or numbers?
Rotoiti fish dont get a chance to spawn as there are practically no suitable spawning grounds,Sure they give it a good go running up the tiny creeks during heavy rain but either run out of water and or dig up an existing redd or are poached.The liberation points are for the anglers not the fish.

IMO the fish numbers are fine just the size is on the decline.

Sourcing ova from a smaller fish gene pool?

Staggered releases?

Having no protection from fishos (EG deep water that was not fished prior to jigging)?

Land use change over the last 100 years resulting in the gradual decline of the lake?

Hard to pin the decline in size on one thing,All of the above and some...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote NGOBROWNSLAYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 8:13pm
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I absolutely agree about decline of numbers and sizes.I have fished every weekend since the start of May and havent seen or heard of one bag limit taken yet.And i speak to the whos who on the shoreline front of whats going on.

As for Jigging i know blokes having 30 fish days and if you times that by say for example 20 boats thats a staggering amount of fish being caught or killed and some die on release anyway.And we really dont know what numbers people are keeping,Technology is killing the fishing i believe along with poaching is just the icing on the cake,i believe most poaching occurs early hours and thats when i fish.I have encountered from a young fella up the Ruato creek netting them,to blokes pulling in before 4am to check the creek,to guys keeping foulhooked fish.

I truly believe the boaties season must be cut shorter and a smaller bag limit should be halved as 8 a day is rediculous.You cant tell me this doesnt have an impact,from day one when fingerlings are released they fall to predators.I know from speaking to many old school fisherman out there who have fished these lakes some 30 plus years and they will tell you.something needs to be done,Very concerned angler here!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote tmmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2016 at 10:39pm
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Agree with the comment above.

The issue will come down to $$- who sells more licences? A family of four jigging equals as many licences as you can fit at some of the smaller stream mouths. I hope something is done.... but I'm not hopeful.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Micsam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 9:35am
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RC17 if you speak with the Fishandgame Rangers they will tell you it is utterly irrelevant whether the few remaining now returning spawners are caught or allowed to spawn. Obviously a couple of successful spawners doesn't hurt. They are 90% put and take hatchery fish. The trout population in the lake is healthy and well feed. That's not the issue regarding trout size declining it's simply the trout are trolled/harled and jigged out and eaten before reaching double digit size. Can any of you guys remember when Rotoiti had a major algal bloom problem back say 15 years now? Well when that happened anglers were being warned not to take fish etc etc. For those couple years there was stuff all angling pressure and jigging was in its infancy with people using small metal grim reapers nowhere near as effective as three flies now. Those years produced staggering amounts of double digit fish at Ruato it was not uncommon to see 20 night anglers standing waist deep. Now I would be surprised if there were more than 5 fishing there tonight.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 10:26am
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All fair comments. I guess the fishing will never be what it was 20 or even 10 years ago due to increased pressure which will only further increase. But i feel alot of the rest is a bit cyclical too. Remember when okataina went through a phase 10 years ago when the fish were small, and they introduced a 58cm min size to try get more fish to maturity. Didnt do a thing. But now the lake is producing some great fish, and that lake gets a fairly consistent level of angler pressure low-moderate, that can fluctuate a little depending on the state of the boat ramp. 2012 was a great winter by my limited winter knowledge, will never scoff at a 7lb average. This winter if we can call it that is far warmer than normal also, maybe the best fishing is still to come?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 2:00pm
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Apart from a few ??????"wild" fish all the released fish are fin clipped .    It should therefore be possible with regular creel surveys to find out the percentage of individual year classes taken out of the system.     It should also give a good handle on the state of the 4 year old trophy cohort.     Maybe Eastern is doing that already?    I just have not seen any data.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote o Neill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 4:04pm
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I'm going to be shore fishing the lake regularly over the next couple of months will be interesting to see if F and G are doing survey work?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 6:07pm
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Another thing I find interesting is as the water quality/ clarity in Rotoiti has improved from say 10 years 0r more ago  the fishing has slowly deteriorated.
Look at Taupo - much cleaner/clearer water and possibly not enough algae production for smelt food?

What about the affect of the "wall" at the canal on smelt migration - any ?

I must admit to be very surprised at the amount of smelt in this lake - huge schools on the fish finder - the trout must have enough food?

Is it a genetic thing why the fish are not growing as fast as they were?

In the short term probably best thing to do is take more smaller fish (plenty of these and they compete with big fish for food) and return the big ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote NGOBROWNSLAYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 8:14pm
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Absolutely bro,Its about the money at the end of the day.F&G have too much to lose.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote NGOBROWNSLAYER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2016 at 8:18pm
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Agree Redfinger more smaller fish need to be taken,In particular in Lake Rotorua,Plenty of food as you say smelt numbers are there along with Bullies.it is a viable possability also with genetics,but far too much pressure has been added when you compare the old days less technology,less fisherman equaled superb fishing.
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