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Reccs are taking too much

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2019 at 2:36pm
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Trout fisheries always traditionally had size limits - various limits for various places, but basically below a certain size, chuck them back. That has for some years now been abandoned and now you can take home what you would have been prosecuted for having in posession before. Because all the good breeding stock were being removed from the rivers etc. Catch limits still prevail. Maybe one or two per various rivers. If you want to take a little guy home, that is your catch for the day. Everything else goes back. Complete reversal of decades of regs, but seems sensible. Possibly the survival rate of the C&R bigger guys is better also. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2019 at 8:54pm
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I was fishing with an ex NZ commercial guy today. Alot of the by catch on his boat was Marlin. Which they had to throw back dead as they were licensed for tuna. The worst he experienced personally was 30 dead Marlin in one day. That's one boat. Cameras would make the pointless carnage more accessible to the public followed by the outrage it deserves. So things would change. No doubt about it. And they know this.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote JasonEdward62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 1:01am
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Commercial fishers now must report undersize returned to the sea.

For the last year or two snapper fishers have done this voluntarily and all boats that catch much snapper have voluntarily had cameras and all undersize has been literally held up for the cameras.

Snapper fishers have also had lots of observer coverage over many years so everyone now knows exactly what they catch, as had already been done and continues in the deepwater fisheries.

I stress the cameras and reporting were voluntary and the sky has not fallen and perhaps surprisingly, little has changed - and I assume commercial fishing practices of the cowboys that exist in any industry have sharpened up.

Quota were originally loosely based on landed fish, not undersize returned to the sea, so if all fish is brought back to shore - as is being considered right now - more quota would logically and reasonably have to be issued.

As for raising commercial fish sizes to recreational ones noone wants that because that would mean commercial fishers must return much more mostly dead undersize fish to the sea and they don't come off quotas.

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Put up the footage then or links to the footage. Is it for all comm methods? Or cherry picked?

I have seen a doco on the snapper fisherman up north using one of those fancy new trawl nets. From memory he got heaps of Terakihi which has been in the headlines recently. And please don't pin that on recs even MPI graphs show the comm effort on Terakihi is way above the rec catch.

I am not saying raise comm sizes I am saying lower rec sizes.

What Sanchez says is the same as what I have heard too adding in sharks, rays and the problem of the dolphins too.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 6:12am
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Originally posted by Sanchez Sanchez wrote:

I was fishing with an ex NZ commercial guy today. Alot of the by catch on his boat was Marlin. Which they had to throw back dead as they were licensed for tuna. The worst he experienced personally was 30 dead Marlin in one day. That's one boat. Cameras would make the pointless carnage more accessible to the public followed by the outrage it deserves. So things would change. No doubt about it. And they know this.


If public outrage was the outcome of having cameras on boats what point would it serve. Commercial surface liners within NZ waters have to release marlin dead or alive, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think this was part of the requirement of the bill-fish moratorium fought for by the New Big Game Fishing Council now the NZSFC to make marlin a recreational only species. So you cant blame commercial for that perhaps the law should be changed to allow them to land dead fish, I can just hear all the howls of protest of that happening. Tell me how many marlin let alone other species do recreational return to the sea either dead or dying, perhaps cameras on rec boats would solve this problem. As JasonEdward62 says there are cameras on many commercial vessels and has anything changed, not that I'm aware of.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 10:50am
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Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:


If public outrage was the outcome of having cameras on boats what point would it serve. Commercial surface liners within NZ waters have to release marlin dead or alive, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think this was part of the requirement of the bill-fish moratorium fought for by the New Big Game Fishing Council now the NZSFC to make marlin a recreational only species. So you cant blame commercial for that perhaps the law should be changed to allow them to land dead fish, I can just hear all the howls of protest of that happening. Tell me how many marlin let alone other species do recreational return to the sea either dead or dying, perhaps cameras on rec boats would solve this problem. As JasonEdward62 says there are cameras on many commercial vessels and has anything changed, not that I'm aware of.

Are you serious in making the average rec voyage comparable to a commercial vessel ? that's nuts if you are.  The riveting footage of my 3 undersize live snapper and one surprised looking little Gurnard I returned yesterday would be excruciatingly pointless. 

Thus far cameras on boats are, as far as I know, only done so voluntary. I would voluntarily put a camera on my boat also, but the vessels of Hawkes Bay seafoods would not have volunteered to put cameras on their boats because they were busy misreporting their catch and raping the fishery. 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 1:30pm
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****, can't win eh. Legasea fully backed the results of the last survey.

Use the exact same method, results are a bit different based on changing demographics, bag limit changes for SNA1 etc and now it's some enormous anti-rec conspiracy 😂
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 2:15pm
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Hawkes Bay Seafoods. Posterchild of the QMS
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 2:25pm
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National Panel Survey
Dear Fishers

New survey measures recreational fishing

A Fisheries New Zealand national survey of recreational fishing has confirmed the ongoing importance of recreational fishing.
The National Panel Survey – which is conducted every 5-6 years – provides a snapshot of recreational fishing activity around the country, says Fisheries New Zealand Director of Fisheries Management, Stuart Anderson.


 We estimate that 13 per cent of the country’s population over the age of 15 years went fishing at least once during 2017-2018.
“We also found that recreational fishers catch a large proportion of key recreational fish species such as snapper, kahawai, blue cod and kingfish. There’s been little change in the proportion of these fish caught by recreational and commercial fishers since 2012.
The survey contacted more than 30,000 people and about 7000 recreational fishers had their fishing outings recorded over a 12-month period from 01 October 2017 to
30 September 2018.


Other key findings include:

  • about half of all recreational fishing occurs around the north-east coast of the North Island along the coastline from the tip of Northland to East Cape
  • an estimated almost 2 million fishing trips were taken in 2017-2018
  • in 2017-2018, recreational fishers caught an estimated 7 million individual finfish and
    3.9 million individual shellfish
  • Southland is the only area in the country where recreational fisher numbers appears to be increasing, by about 14 percent
  • Species of importance to recreational fishers are snapper, kahawai, blue cod and kingfish.  Recreational catches of these species have increased substantially since 1990.
  • The average recreational snapper catch has seen a lot of fluctuation, almost tripling in the last 30 years, but trending down since the last survey in 2012.
  • The average recreational kahawai catch has more than quadrupled in the Hauraki Gulf.
  • Interestingly, the decreasing number of recreational fishers (3%) seems to be in line with international trends.
  • Southland is the only area in the country where the number of recreational fishers appears to be increasing, by about 14 percent.
In April 2014, a bag limit reduction from nine to seven snapper per person per day was placed on waters from Northland to East Cape.


You can access the full survey results by clicking on the links below.

  Survey results 

  How the survey was run

 

Kind regards,
Recreational Fisheries - Fisheries New Zealand

Fisheries Management | Fisheries New Zealand – Tini a Tangaroa 
Charles Ferguson Tower | PO Box 2526 | Wellington | New Zealand
Web:
fisheries.govt.nz


Not the whole Email but those interested can click on the survey results/conducted. It would appear that there has been a drop in take and nimber of recreational fishers since 2012.

water water everywhere,how many fish does it hold?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote REIVER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 4:42pm
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 2 million trips for 7 million fish doesn't show a particularly good return for the effort put in. 3.5 fish per trip Confused. Who cooks up these 'estimates'?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 5:30pm
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Just looking at the table the drop in snapper take alone is more than 10 times the amount of the species that show an increase. And that total includes pilchards lmao
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rozboon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 5:31pm
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Originally posted by REIVER REIVER wrote:

  

 2 million trips for 7 million fish doesn't show a particularly good return for the effort put in. 3.5 fish per trip Confused. Who cooks up these 'estimates'?

I reckon it's insanely on the high side. If this purports to represent recs as a whole, how many of the "average punter" anglers do you think averages 3.5 Snapper per trip per person?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 5:34pm
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We are taking 30% less snapper than what we were taking 30 yrs ago or when Qms was introduced.
And there is a very good reason as to why,something those over 45 would know the answer too.LOL
water water everywhere,how many fish does it hold?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the croc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 8:27pm
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

We are taking 30% less snapper than what we were taking 30 yrs ago or when Qms was introduced.
And there is a very good reason as to why,something those over 45 would know the answer too.LOL






https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://seachange.org.nz/assets/Sea-Change/SWG/Recreational-Fisheries-in-the-Hauraki-Gulf-Bruce-Hartill-NIWA.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjTks2e27HkAhVSg-YKHV0PBHoQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw22hixT5Dq-CkF6BOQH09Yy

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 8:29pm
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Originally posted by Sanchez Sanchez wrote:

Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:


If public outrage was the outcome of having cameras on boats what point would it serve. Commercial surface liners within NZ waters have to release marlin dead or alive, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think this was part of the requirement of the bill-fish moratorium fought for by the New Big Game Fishing Council now the NZSFC to make marlin a recreational only species. So you cant blame commercial for that perhaps the law should be changed to allow them to land dead fish, I can just hear all the howls of protest of that happening. Tell me how many marlin let alone other species do recreational return to the sea either dead or dying, perhaps cameras on rec boats would solve this problem. As JasonEdward62 says there are cameras on many commercial vessels and has anything changed, not that I'm aware of.

Are you serious in making the average rec voyage comparable to a commercial vessel ? that's nuts if you are.  The riveting footage of my 3 undersize live snapper and one surprised looking little Gurnard I returned yesterday would be excruciatingly pointless. 

Thus far cameras on boats are, as far as I know, only done so voluntary. I would voluntarily put a camera on my boat also, but the vessels of Hawkes Bay seafoods would not have volunteered to put cameras on their boats because they were busy misreporting their catch and raping the fishery. 



Obviously you only read or your brain only comprehended that I mentioned putting cameras on recreational boats and not that commercial cannot land marlin.
So based on your comment about an ex-commercial discarding 30 dead marlin, tell me how would cameras make things change when commercial cannot land them due to the bill-fish moratorium. Public outrage may force the government to change this law by-where marlin could now be landed by commercial rather than be wasted, be-careful what you wish for.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 9:16pm
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Yep. What you said about Marlin being a rec only species and the fact the commercial boats following the law and dumping perfectly awesome fish they could otherwise take to market was far more worthy of a reply than your cameras on rec boats idea.   The com fishing guys I know absolutely hate doing it. I don't know any fish industry desk dudes like croc might have been, but the guys who work the boats, I know a few. To tell you the truth I don't have the answer. But it's pretty clear that we can't just continue like we are now. We both agree on that right ? But since opinions are the stuff conversations like this are made of I would say that I quietly believe the solution is keep what you kill. However Marlin or any struggling species would be worth far less at market , and so it follows that the motivation to modify methods to avoid catching what isn't cost effective would be greater than it is now
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 5:50am
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Tzer the recs have to release fish because of size restrictions. There has been frustration because of the size limit going up.

A camera will be most welcome on my kayak, anytime any NIWA/MPI feel the need all good.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 7:17am
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Another thing regarding cameras. What about the end product commercially caught fish. I know no one who buys it, along with a lot of people who don't like it.

We had the stat that 20-30 percent of food is thrown out of supermarkets, how much is seafood? What is the point of overstocking the shelves of precious fish if it is not selling?

So if anyone has answers from the big food chains on waste numbers I would like to see them as well as most would I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 12:51pm
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://seachange.org.nz/assets/Sea-Change/SWG/Recreational-Fisheries-in-the-Hauraki-Gulf-Bruce-Hartill-NIWA.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjTks2e27HkAhVSg-YKHV0PBHoQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw22hixT5Dq-CkF6BOQH09Yy

[/QUOTE]
While I am not poking a finger at you Croc, there is something seriously wrong with this synopsis. I don't know any details about how this data has been established (what methodologies in 1991?). But this is waaay wrong in the fishing I have been doing since late 80s. Eg instead of catching a few decent puka a summer in a minimal boat, no GPS, or sounder I can now goa whole summer and lucky if I land a pup where I used to catch serious puka. I hate catching pup grouper, but the chances of a bigger one are near infinitesimal. Gurnard? I can now expect to spend a day catching 2-3 sometimes. They were the staple fish in our area for a decade or more from the 90s.
Something not quite right with that data. According to that I should be catching more puka and gurnard than I was in early 90s??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 1:29pm
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Alan. Are you saying your catch rates have fallen since  QMS.?
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