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Re mount pedestal seat ?

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    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 9:57am
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Titanium
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Pulled the 10mm mounting coach bolts on the base of the skipper seat going over a wave.. I lean quite heavy onto it at the helm.
 Any way
It mounts thru the top of the buoyancy compartment below. Thick glassed timber floor with carpet over. (sea nymph commander)

Im thinking,
Drill the holes out, re set the coach bolts with epoxy in the holes.. ??

or mount load spreader washers on the under side with 10mm bolts coming up from inside the buoyancy compartment.
The trick here is hand and forearm access inside the buoyancy compartment.
 Could go in thru the side, but means MT and pulling under floor fuel tank out, then cut hole in the side of the compartment, put the bolts/ spreaders in , mount seat , then re glass /pressure seal the hole back up.

Trying to think of another method to mount secure,   Something like  ceiling hooks that push thru the ceiling and they open out on the other side ??
 or access inside to put in  load spreader washers easier
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kitno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 10:14am
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Titanium
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Can you screw down 21mm ply larger than the seat base, glass over to seal. Then use heavy gauge screws to fix the seat base down? The extra thickness of ply would give you better fixing. Everything can be done from the top.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 11:09am
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Titanium
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Thats pretty simple..
Would also give a far wider base to spread the side ways pressure from me leaning back on the seat base at the helm..

Cool.

It sorta gave me another idea... I could cut a hole under where the pedisal mounts, just big enough to get hand access to put spreaders and bolts up.. seal under spreaders and bolt holes (it is a sealed buoyancy compartment). Dumby put pedestal  back in place, bolted down to fix correct angle/ position of bolts.
Then replace/ glass/seal the bit out of access hole , bolt down pedestal....
Bit more work, tidier.

Then just as finished typing the above.. my windscreen top , alloy strip could not be at a worse height to look either over or under..its a bloody curse. Screen is about 1" lower as the last owner (over decade ago) smashed it on a building backing up, the replacement was used as a 'mould'

Now if I used Kitno method.. I can put that top plate you suggest right up to the bottom of the helm, also make it a step so see over the screen ...which I normally do with that clear panel open to a 3 or 4" slit.

Will test a few heights...most likely end up with greater than 21mm.. all the better...Would be even longer forward so spread the load on the board far more...And can still put counter sunk spreaders between it and the current floor.

Cool...thanks

getting even better...


just thinking all the way thru...
And I think may have a offcut of carpet to put over it,  round off route the edges of the panel... route a inset in the underside around edges to fix carpet, and so panel sits down nice and flush..

Further ideas are welcome.

P.S. there was an old thread about mounting pedestal seats secure, which I mentioned my10mm coach bolts into the floor had worked fine... till now and hit a big wave on the bar.. Big well swell was just over 1m, which makes the unexpected wave around 3 to 3.5m standing up...


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 4:31pm
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Titanium
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I like the plate format.
Save on the glass work and use an alloy plate.

You can use thread inserts if you have the tool.
But with thin metals and thin glass fighting side loads probably not appropriate.

Go with the plate and spread the load. So use as large a footprint as possible.
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Joker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 7:53pm
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What about a bigger and stainless version of those bolts that go through gib board and open up like an aeroplane wing on the inside when tightened up?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kitno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 8:24pm
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Titanium
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Originally posted by Joker Joker wrote:

What about a bigger and stainless version of those bolts that go through gib board and open up like an aeroplane wing on the inside when tightened up?



I've never seen them in stainless before but they may be available. Can see a bit of an issue with sealing the hole, as it has to be oversized to get the thingy through.
Not sure how they'd handle vibration either.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote terrafish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 8:32pm
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Spit balling here with you steps. If it was me then i would look at a stainless plate(5mm?) with bolts/studs welded in for the pedestal to mount to( check first to see how many other pedestals share the same footprint so if have to replace the pedestal in the future, then a replacement can easily be found)Drill and Countersink 10/12 holes around the outer diameter. Position and shallow drill your o/d holes and mark out overall o/d of plate. Cut out carpet and overdrill holes to depth that does not compromise/enter internal chamber. Epoxy fill. Redrill to screw diameter(any timber/ply is now sealed against water ingress). Make sure screws are not too long that they are gunna go thru into chamber. Lay a good bed of marine adhesive sealant down on your cut out(mask out carpet edge and plate edge and make sure that the cutout is clean and degreased/free of glue etc and suitable for S/S and F/Glass but wont have to be u/v resistant) then screw your plate down to the glass top and leave alone for a few days to cure. Screw your pedestal base down(i'm not even gunna bother with telling you about alloy and s/s!!!!!) and then you will have a near flush with carpet, smart looking plate solidly locked down.

Just a thought
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote viscount Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 2:42am
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Get some threaded inserts that you can expo you into the wood then use machine screws to tighten down the seat,
beers wings and things
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 10:52am
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Titanium
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What about a bigger and stainless version of those bolts that go through gib board and open up like an aeroplane wing on the inside when tightened up?

Did a big investigation, and local fixture guy /m8 here.. no nothing big enough along those lines..
 As to later posts..yes se4aling has to be seriously looked at, and not just seal.. it is a buoyancy compartment.. go under water, and there will be huge pressures in there. So seals will have to be pressure sealed as well
Not an issue thu can be done easy enough...

Stainless plate idea good.. if top of my windscreen was right height.
 See my 2nd post details..

Going with the ply plate, approx 400mm wide 800 long.. going from couple inches stern side of the pedestal to the bottom of the helm dash.
Required height for very good view over the alloy finish strip on the windscreen is 42mm.
Cant get treated ply that thick or near, so 2 pieces 18mm glued (laminated ) together with good gorilla type glue. gives about 38mm. This is currently sitting over night in the wood vice and 10 clamps.
This still gives clear view thru screen sitting on the seat , and good view over the screen leaning back against the seat..
If need be can change / cut the pedestal height to suit.

I need to pressure seal the old pedestal bolt holes.. Will drill out and with epoxy and fitted dowels tapped in, and a stainless screw counter sunk ,into the center of the dowel.. like a wedge in the top of a axe handle effect.

 The plate,  generous raduis the edges with router so carpet will lay over top and sides neat to match the floor carpets with contact glue.

6 x 10mm stainless bolt up from the bottom of the plate with large square stainless spreader washers, slightly counter sunk holds pedestal to the plate...and sealed with sika marine polyurethane sealant well rubbed into the wood.

Fix the plate,(pedestal bolts/ spreader washers, thru from the bottom) with counter sunk  with 10mm x60 or 70mm coach bolts..and washers. 3 across bow end of plate under helm.. 3 across front of the pedestal, 2 across behind the pedestal.
 All loading is leaning back on the seat , hence fixing on front side more.
Drill each hole for the coach bolts, generous siks sealant in floor , bottom side of ply plate holes and top of plate into bolt holes.
 Bolt down pedestal, adjust seat height if need be..

See if holds next time , and hope not , the next big wave comes up in when crossing the bar...AND mis judge pulling back on throttle as bow goes over.. judge right and will slide down other side...

Out of interest .. cost.
2 bits play  from yard off cuts $10
SS stainless bolts and nyloc nuts, washers , load spreaders $15 ( had 3 nuts/ bolts and couple spreaders on the shelf )
 Glue.. have on self
Sealant , have on shelf
 industrial grade Epoxy , have on self.
 Carpet, 1m ex warehouse of similar approx $20

I replaced the carpet over the underfloor tank about 8yrs ago.. use elcheapo warehouse stuff.. had bait, crap, ground in, been water blasted heaps times.. hose power wash after each trip.. lots trips...still as new...
 Secret.. when glue down, the WHOLE AREA.. not just lines of glue.
 Reason .. If do lines, when stand between 2 glued areas, then turn, foot twists in that area the stretches that area. It becomes baggy, thin , rips, as if 'wornout'
Its not worn out, its incorrectly laid...Wink

Anyway today will be routing edges, locating drilling plate bolt holes, sealing old holes in  floor compartment... polyurethane the  ply plate.

All a mixture of my own thoughts knowledge and tipas , suggestion in posts above...And so many bit fall into both areas.

P.S.
 I did have another idea, about putting bolts and spreader washers up from inside the buoyancy compartment with out having to access the side  by lifting the under floor fuel tank out.

The pedestal base is a decent size. diameter, cut a hole big enough to put hand/ wrist thru. 6 pedestal holes pre drilled
 Tack weld spreader washers onto the bolts.. A heap of sealant on spreader washers and in bolt holes, push up bolts thru, and hold in place with a few bits of wood up from the hull.
Position the pedestal on the bolts and nearly torque up, let the sealant set over night.
Unbolt Remove pedestal...
The bit that was cut out of the hole.. epoxy back in, and a couple ss strips across the top, inside the diameter of the pedestal base, to support and pressure that would be inside the buoyancy chamber if boat sank.
 Mount and bolt down the pedestal.

Another method to support the bit cut out would be cut an elliptical panel, same width, slide in thru the hole and glue up from the inside.. Then when put the hole bit back, it is also epoxied between the 2 with a couple teck screws thru both.

I put that in just in case others in the future thinking about this sort of thing.

Comments would be welcome...
 There is always something missed  or better ideas dreamed up from others thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 2:37pm
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Bolt the seat to a sturdy piece of wood with the bolt heads lying flush against the underside of the wood. Then glue to the floor with epoxy and fillet/glass in the sides. Job done. 
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Titanium
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to my mind you should be looking to reduce/minimise the number of metalic fittings onboard.

keep it simple - drill out, oversize and then epoxy fill the existing holes. refasten seat base by screwing into the solid epoxy plugs
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 4:57pm
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Titanium
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Bolt the seat to a sturdy piece of wood with the bolt heads lying flush against the underside of the wood. Then glue to the floor with epoxy and fillet/glass in the sides. Job done. 

 Yep.. would look crap, glueing down means ripping up carpets, grinding off gelcoat surface ...and if go to mod something in the future, a headache.. and would be rather patchy unless completely relay with new carpet...which means pulling up the full deck side ...find a carpet that matches if can now, and re lay..

to my mind you should be looking to reduce/minimise the number of metalic fittings onboard.

keep it simple - drill out, oversize and then epoxy fill the existing holes. refasten seat base by screwing into the solid epoxy plugs

The original bolts where 6mm.. they eventually pulled a few yrs back. Replaced with 10mm about a yr ago. Its these that pulled when droping do the seaward side of a rather large wave that stood up on us on monday...
 It actually almost held my weight when the boat came down..only partly pulled the front 3 10mm bolts.

Hence why now going the bit extra..

 Anyway the ply base made, bolt head / the square spreader washers counter sunk 8mm deep in underside...and edges all rounded nice with router.
The old mounting bolt holes, doweled and epoxied..
Seal ply plate with polyurethane tomorrow.
Source 1m carpet tomorrow in puke.
Drill counter sunk holes for the bolts to hold plate down.
 3 across in front of pedestal base, 3 more further forward. And 3 just behind.
 glue carpet on the ply plate, and neat , rolled over the routed edges / ends.

Drill leader holes in plate and floor and bolt down.

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